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Central Hockey League - The Slow Spin Down the Bowl Continues

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Old
05-01-2014, 08:21 AM
  #226
mfrerkes
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
who said STC is gone, you're speculating, mf.... the Chill is up for sale, whether or not it was being co-run by the Mavericks....
No duh, I'm speculating. That's what normal people do on a hockey forum. If all we did was cut-and-paste news articles with absolutely zero original thought or comments, this would quickly become a very dull enterprise.

If you bothered to pay any attention to the words I used, you'd understand that "more than likely" is not an official declaration of anything. It's a general feeling I have the Chill are going to have extreme difficulties finding yet another owner who is willing to lose money in a market that already rejected minor league hockey once before.

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05-02-2014, 02:34 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by mfrerkes View Post
No duh, I'm speculating. That's what normal people do on a hockey forum. If all we did was cut-and-paste news articles with absolutely zero original thought or comments, this would quickly become a very dull enterprise.

If you bothered to pay any attention to the words I used, you'd understand that "more than likely" is not an official declaration of anything. It's a general feeling I have the Chill are going to have extreme difficulties finding yet another owner who is willing to lose money in a market that already rejected minor league hockey once before.
One good ownership option for the Chill would be to have the Blues buy them.

However that is a HUGE longshot. And I say it is 98% likely that'll never happen.

If that did happen I wonder if attendance would increase a little, or if they'd at least have better on ice quality. Like I said there is really no justification for the Blues to own them, nor will it actually happen considering the losses incurred owning Peoria.

It's ashame the Family Arena is such a nice building. I love watching hockey there and wish it would stick and the Blues/ Chill could happily coexist but realistically it's just not possible long term

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05-02-2014, 04:42 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by mfrerkes View Post
No duh, I'm speculating. That's what normal people do on a hockey forum. If all we did was cut-and-paste news articles with absolutely zero original thought or comments, this would quickly become a very dull enterprise.

If you bothered to pay any attention to the words I used, you'd understand that "more than likely" is not an official declaration of anything. It's a general feeling I have the Chill are going to have extreme difficulties finding yet another owner who is willing to lose money in a market that already rejected minor league hockey once before.
True, it would be boring.
But looking at the big picture in this economy, I don't think there are many people wanting to throw around a million dollars to keep the team afloat. And saying that, what does this do to Brampton - knowing that St. Charles might not be around or could we now have 1 or more teams leaving for another AA league. No one knows, but after the finals are over we will probably know more.

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05-02-2014, 10:07 PM
  #229
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Chill fold.

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05-02-2014, 10:42 PM
  #230
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Chill fold.
Link???

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05-03-2014, 01:06 AM
  #231
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Link???
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Thank you for your support of the St. Charles Chill. The Chill has ceased business operations effective immediately and is actively pursuing local ownership in hopes to keep hockey in St. Charles.
http://www.stcharleschill.com/news/i...article_id=144

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05-03-2014, 11:25 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
If you are the CHL, shouldn't this be a time to panic?

Remember... they have done everything they could to stay around 10 teams, even giving places to oddball locations like Brampton, Ontario. Like I said over on the ECHL expansion thread, if both Casper and Louisville fall apart and another CHL team folds (probably Allen or Arizona), that's it for this league, in my opinion.

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05-03-2014, 10:28 PM
  #233
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Like I said over on the ECHL expansion thread, if both Casper and Louisville fall apart and another CHL team folds (probably Allen or Arizona), that's it for this league, in my opinion.
Casper already has fallen apart. The guy who was throwing $1 million at the city to install ice-making equipment has backed out of the deal completely. There will be no CHL hockey in Casper this fall. Period.

As for Louisville, it never was "together" to fall apart in the first place. The league was only expressing interest in the market despite not having a single viable lead on potential ownership. Louisville was a pipe dream for the CHL. It is even less on the radar than Casper is/was this season.

If Saint Charles is the only team that folds over the summer, the CHL is still in a world of hurt. Having a nine-team league will guarantee a schedule with plenty of weeknight games. That will create all kinds of problems the league cannot afford.

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05-04-2014, 10:25 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by mfrerkes View Post
Casper already has fallen apart. The guy who was throwing $1 million at the city to install ice-making equipment has backed out of the deal completely. There will be no CHL hockey in Casper this fall. Period.

As for Louisville, it never was "together" to fall apart in the first place. The league was only expressing interest in the market despite not having a single viable lead on potential ownership. Louisville was a pipe dream for the CHL. It is even less on the radar than Casper is/was this season.

If Saint Charles is the only team that folds over the summer, the CHL is still in a world of hurt. Having a nine-team league will guarantee a schedule with plenty of weeknight games. That will create all kinds of problems the league cannot afford.
Actually the guy who was offering the 1 million did not back out. He just removed all the conditions on his offer. The article was poorly written and was confusing. So the offer is still there, just no conditions attached.
http://trib.com/news/local/casper/ho...80334e35c.html

But it doesn't matter. I doubt it will work well in Casper even if they do get a team in 2015-16.

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05-06-2014, 11:46 AM
  #235
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I hate to start this discussion again but: If the league is under 10 teams doesn't that let some teams out of their 10 year operating contracts?

As for where I see teams ending up when the CHL does finally collapse: I see Rapid City and Missouri making a move to the ECHl despite their poor locations (my dream to have the Mavericks become the ECHL affiliate for the Blues considering they already work with the Wolves). Arizona I could seeing testing the waters in the ECHL a few seasons but eventually folding or going juniors, Allen again is an outpost and bleeding money but I could see them work with the Stars as they already do in the ECHL. Quad Cities probably the USHL or fold. Tulsa and Witchita I have no idea really Tulsa has been losing money and I would love to see them stay alive but my guess NAHL or fold, and Witchita might try the ECHL with Missouri given they would be close to each other making it easier for scheduling.

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05-06-2014, 11:10 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by mk80 View Post
I hate to start this discussion again but: If the league is under 10 teams doesn't that let some teams out of their 10 year operating contracts?
I've heard this thrown around various forums, and it might have some plausibility, but the exact number isn't really known. The more likely scenario here seems to be related to the change in league ownership last summer. Now that each team has a stake in the CHL, it could be more feasible for individual teams to leave.

There really is no sure thing regarding the CHL's future, or lack thereof. Everything is shrouded in mystery. If the league folds, it will come with little or no warning to fans.

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05-09-2014, 05:04 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
Chill fold.
This was only a matter of time, I'm surprised they made it through the season. Honestly, 'A' level beer league was more exciting and physical hockey than I saw at Chill games.

The brief message sent by the Chill stated they are "is actively pursuing local ownership in hopes to keep hockey in St Charles"

St. Charles is not a pro hockey market, it's too close and too easy to get downtown St. Louis to watch the Blues. Minor pro in a major pro market is like comparing oranges to rotten oranges. I would love to see top junior hockey return to the St. Louis area, maybe a relocation of the USHL Indy Ice which is dormant after the ECHL moved into Indy.

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05-09-2014, 06:56 PM
  #238
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This was only a matter of time, I'm surprised they made it through the season. Honestly, 'A' level beer league was more exciting and physical hockey than I saw at Chill games.
Do you realize that at least (7) players on the Chill also spent time playing for ECHL teams last season? The other AA league didn't see them as 'A' level beer leaguers.


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St. Charles is not a pro hockey market, it's too close and too easy to get downtown St. Louis to watch the Blues. Minor pro in a major pro market is like comparing oranges to rotten oranges. I would love to see top junior hockey return to the St. Louis area, maybe a relocation of the USHL Indy Ice which is dormant after the ECHL moved into Indy.
You mean the major pro market known as St. Louis were the Blues drew attendance that ranked them #18 out of 30 in the NHL for 2013-14 and the NFL's Rams attendance ranked 31st out of 32? The same major market with NO team in the NBA, and has a sports history where two major pro teams left because of poor attendance ( NFL Cardinals and MLB Browns)? Didn't the Junior Blues team fold for the same reason? So why would the USHL go there??

The only team that draws in that city are the MLB's Cardinals, and that's due in great part to the fans from nearby states, and the rich winning baseball tradition. Heck, even St. Louis' flagship icon, Budweiser, sold out to the Euro beer industry due to lack of support.

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05-10-2014, 03:02 PM
  #239
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Do you realize that at least (7) players on the Chill also spent time playing for ECHL teams last season? The other AA league didn't see them as 'A' level beer leaguers.
I was just talking about the level of play overall, not specifically individual players. The Chill and opponents at the time I did go to Chill games were good on the top lines but play dropped significantly deeper into the roster. Also, I believe a few were called up so that may have been a factor. I've played with a number of former ECHLers as well as current and former NCAA DI, DIII players, and Major Jr. players in 'A' level beer leagues, open hockey, and summer hockey leagues in the past so possibly my experience jaded our experience at the games. The ECHL also called up FHLers and they are a glorified 'A' level beer league.

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Originally Posted by Off da post and in View Post
You mean the major pro market known as St. Louis were the Blues drew attendance that ranked them #18 out of 30 in the NHL for 2013-14 and the NFL's Rams attendance ranked 31st out of 32? The same major market with NO team in the NBA, and has a sports history where two major pro teams left because of poor attendance ( NFL Cardinals and MLB Browns)? Didn't the Junior Blues team fold for the same reason? So why would the USHL go there??

The only team that draws in that city are the MLB's Cardinals, and that's due in great part to the fans from nearby states, and the rich winning baseball tradition. Heck, even St. Louis' flagship icon, Budweiser, sold out to the Euro beer industry due to lack of support.
St. Louis is a major pro market regardless of the teams' attendance and fact that the Cardinals dominate the market. I'm not going to get into discussions about why the Browns and NFL Cards left. The Rams have not put a competitive product on the field in close to a decade plus Edward Jones Dome is a dingy aging NFL stadium. The Blues still had respectable figures despite being 18 of 30, a number of teams above them are either in larger markets and/or have larger arena capacities. Also I bet some of the lower attendance of the Blues and Rams is because of Cardinals games on the same day.

Minor league baseball does a nice job when there's minor league teams close to major league markets. MiLB offsets the drop in level of play with low cost to attend games plus gameday promotions, activities around the ballpark, added entertainment, etc... The Chill games I've seen were drab with not much added excitement/added value off the ice. 105.7's Tony Patrico was fun but could have been used more effectively as the game host. At the start of the season the Chill were one of the most expensive CHL tickets, but by midway and late season if you paid over $5, you did something wrong. Setting the initial tickets high then slashing prices devalues the product. Having so many ticket deals early to mid season creates a price point for the consumers and they begin to expect to pay that price. The Chill are an example of what not to do because eventually the expectations solidified and they had no choice to drop ticket prices.

USHL hockey would work in a major league market because it has a different atmosphere to minor pro hockey. When a minor league team enters a major league market it must offset that drop of play with extra amenities in addition to being as competitive as possible, the Chill did not do either. USHL is technically amateur sport in a professional setting so it targets a slightly different market. Fans would gravitate more to the young prospects looking to get drafted and go to NCAA or Major Jr. teams. The style of play is fast and very competitive. In general, the players on increasing their stock where in the CHL most of the players are past their peak. MANY more future NHL players come out of the USHL rather than the CHL. On an operations side, USHL players aren't paid so that saves some cash, also the USHL is a Midwest centered league saving travel costs. Bloomington is going the USHL route for 2014-15, Quad Cities could in a few yrs. so competition would only be a few hrs away

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05-10-2014, 04:50 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by sbkbghockey View Post
I was just talking about the level of play overall, not specifically individual players. The Chill and opponents at the time I did go to Chill games were good on the top lines but play dropped significantly deeper into the roster. Also, I believe a few were called up so that may have been a factor. I've played with a number of former ECHLers as well as current and former NCAA DI, DIII players, and Major Jr. players in 'A' level beer leagues, open hockey, and summer hockey leagues in the past so possibly my experience jaded our experience at the games.The ECHL also called up FHLers and they are a glorified 'A' level beer league.

St. Louis is a major pro market regardless of the teams' attendance and fact that the Cardinals dominate the market. Also I bet some of the lower attendance of the Blues and Rams is because of Cardinals games on the same day.
1)The FHLers, who the ECHL calls up, are there for the short term. All of the Chill players, with the exception of one guy who returned to another CHL team, stuck with their ECHL teams for the entire regular season.

2)I wasn't aware that the Cardinals had an effect on the attendance of the Blues and Rams from the second week of November until the end of March. That Winter Baseball really screws things up.

3)Chicago is a major market, and it's USHL team, the Steel, hardly draws anyone. So tell me how St. Louis will work for the USHL ?

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05-10-2014, 05:12 PM
  #241
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3)Chicago is a major market, and it's USHL team, the Steel, hardly draws anyone. So tell me how St. Louis will work for the USHL ?
Look up the St. Louis Heartland Eagles, a one-and-done USHL team about ten years ago...

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05-10-2014, 07:16 PM
  #242
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Look up the St. Louis Heartland Eagles, a one-and-done USHL team about ten years ago...
That's all you need to say.

It's not that the St. Louis area is a bad sports town, but its when you have a pro team and don't have millions of people in a metroplex who follow sports. In fact, most Missourians outside of the Gateway to the West don't follow hockey as it is.

Of course, then there's the River Otters, but the UHL had different priorities.

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05-11-2014, 06:47 PM
  #243
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So, will it be possible for Rapid City/Allen/Missouri to all jump to the ECHL this offseason?

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05-11-2014, 07:29 PM
  #244
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So, will it be possible for Rapid City/Allen/Missouri to all jump to the ECHL this offseason?
I'm kinda intrigued that you haven't included Tulsa and Witchita on this list as well....

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05-11-2014, 09:55 PM
  #245
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So, will it be possible for Rapid City/Allen/Missouri to all jump to the ECHL this offseason?
probably not.

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05-12-2014, 01:44 PM
  #246
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I'm kinda intrigued that you haven't included Tulsa and Witchita on this list as well....
I think he is similar to me in views about those two teams.

Frankly, I look at them as wanting to keep the CHL alive because it's all the have. They are the only two teams left from more than 20 years ago, and furthermore, I feel like they do not want to have any affiliations with any NHL or AHL team. Although the ECHL does have a few Independent franchises, by and large having an affiliate, even in AA hockey, can make a difference for your fanbase.

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05-12-2014, 02:15 PM
  #247
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I think he is similar to me in views about those two teams.

Frankly, I look at them as wanting to keep the CHL alive because it's all the have. They are the only two teams left from more than 20 years ago, and furthermore, I feel like they do not want to have any affiliations with any NHL or AHL team. Although the ECHL does have a few Independent franchises, by and large having an affiliate, even in AA hockey, can make a difference for your fanbase.
I think the ECHL would be lucky to have those somewhat stable markets, with established fanbases, storied histories, nice buildings, and the opportunity to fill the gap between the Eastern and Western based franchises with some in the middle of the country......

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05-13-2014, 11:13 AM
  #248
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I think the ECHL would be lucky to have those somewhat stable markets, with established fanbases, storied histories, nice buildings, and the opportunity to fill the gap between the Eastern and Western based franchises with some in the middle of the country......
The ECHL would love to have stable, reliable markets they can depend on, and ultimately help bridge the gap between the Eastern and Western conferences. In the old days, they would be serviced with opponents in Louisiana and Mississippi, but now, they would fill in a gap that right now features Colorado and Indiana as the borders.

The problem I have is that those two don't want to become part of the ECHL, as far as I know. They were part of the CHL right from the start, and they might rather die than become part of another league.

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05-14-2014, 06:46 PM
  #249
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Allen, TX- The Allen Americans finalized a transfer of ownership from Top Shelf, LLC to a group of investors that includes Steven Brothers Sports Management, LLC, owners of the CHL’s Wichita Thunder and Tulsa Oilers.
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05-15-2014, 11:38 AM
  #250
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Interesting. I wonder if the Stevens brothers still have enough cash laying around to pay for three ECHL expansion memberships...

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