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Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread IV: Top-6 Center Stop Gaps? Super Heavyweights?

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Old
09-23-2013, 06:58 PM
  #776
topchowda
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2011/0...-risk-factors/

I'm certain you can find many other articles on Google.
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
See above. and
What I read from Laraque and what I see on the ice are two different things.

If enforcers were really scared of either they wouldnt fight eachother. And if you look at the Eastern conference almost all the enforcers fight exclusively eachother. Rarely do they fight anyone else. And they do it on a pretty regular basis. Maybe it because they make so much money that they mask their fear in order to suck it up and fight. But they still fight eachother at a rate that leads me to believe they dont fear eachother. And from watching fights these days, which are becoming hugging matches more and more often, I dont see where any fear would come from

And pests are still running around, depsite enforcers getting larger and larger.

Anyway, maybe Im wrong about them fearing eachother. But the point still stands goons have no place in their current roles, and have almost no impact on preventing injuries or acting as a deterrent. As many severe injuries took place on teams with goons (Savard, Crosby)

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Old
09-23-2013, 07:03 PM
  #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
What I read from Laraque and what I see on the ice are two different things.

If enforcers were really scared of either they wouldnt fight eachother. And if you look at the Eastern conference almost all the enforcers fight exclusively eachother. Rarely do they fight anyone else. And they do it on a pretty regular basis. Maybe it because they make so much money that they mask their fear in order to suck it up and fight. But they still fight eachother at a rate that leads me to believe they dont fear eachother. And from watching fights these days, which are becoming hugging matches more and more often, I dont see where any fear would come from

And pests are still running around, depsite enforcers getting larger and larger.

Anyway, maybe Im wrong about them fearing eachother. But the point still stands goons have no place in their current roles, and have almost no impact on preventing injuries or acting as a deterrent. As many severe injuries took place on teams with goons (Savard, Crosby)
You're entitled to your opinion, but I'll take their word over someone sitting there watching it on TV any day. This isn't rec league. If they want a paycheck, they have to fight. It doesn't matter whether they want to

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Old
09-23-2013, 07:27 PM
  #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
What I read from Laraque and what I see on the ice are two different things.

If enforcers were really scared of either they wouldnt fight eachother. And if you look at the Eastern conference almost all the enforcers fight exclusively eachother. Rarely do they fight anyone else. And they do it on a pretty regular basis. Maybe it because they make so much money that they mask their fear in order to suck it up and fight. But they still fight eachother at a rate that leads me to believe they dont fear eachother. And from watching fights these days, which are becoming hugging matches more and more often, I dont see where any fear would come from

And pests are still running around, depsite enforcers getting larger and larger.

Anyway, maybe Im wrong about them fearing eachother. But the point still stands goons have no place in their current roles, and have almost no impact on preventing injuries or acting as a deterrent. As many severe injuries took place on teams with goons (Savard, Crosby)
I'll admit to seeing a lot of hugging matches in the NHL now. Some of Brown's fights tend to resemble those.

But a player on the opposing end has got this tattooed in their head when facing Steve MacIntyre...



Fights can still end your career. Just ask Raitis Ivanans.

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Old
09-23-2013, 07:29 PM
  #779
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Being a hockey enforcer is the toughest job in team pro sports. It's easy to down play these guys and say "well dooood, you don't have to fight, lol" behind a keyboard, it's not like that on ice level. These guys live and die with their rep and somes rage/pure emotion overcomes fear but you end up getting yourself in a lot of trouble. It's a chaotic existence, every day you go to work not knowing if you'll come home with a face that your girlfriend/wife can't recognize.

Not to mention the insanity of smashing your fists into someone else's hard plastic helmet before even being to get to pounding their face it. Even boxer's would probably shudder at that.

I genuinely felt bad for that Ivanans guy on the Flames when he went out cold. Hockey is pretty cruel sport.

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Old
09-23-2013, 07:30 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Serious? You think Orr is scared of Scott or vice versa. They get paid to fight, and most do it because they are a little crazy to begin with. I bet some enjoy the violence. Maybe not all enforcers take pleasure in getting punched but I bet you some do.

Fighting is not really a punishment either, its super easy to tie guys up and just not get punched, look no further than Stortini. In a normal fight there are maybe 2 or 3 hard punches. Goons cant really do much damage to one another unless they are throwing all out bombs and putting themselves in a bad spot (leaving themselves open). Most times if you dont like the way a fight is going you can just tie up.

Very few fights have knock out or devastingly hard blows that would install fear into another person.

Very few fighters can have those type of punches and fights consistently.

Maybe a guy like Eberle is scared of a goon. But smaller pest guys like Downy/Cooke/Marchand/Kaleta/Torres etc arent scared of goons. Otherwise they wouldnt be doing what they do. They know that if a goon comes after them to fight they can either slip away or get in a fight and tie up, thus recieiving little or no damage
Do you honestly think a guy like Marchand could "tie up" a guy like Scott? lol.

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Old
09-23-2013, 07:33 PM
  #781
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if macT doesn't address the center problem before the season starts, we'll be lucky to win 4 or 5 games in october and the season is essentially over before it begins... i would say that i am confident in macT being aware of this, but this is the same GM who thought our center depth was perfectly fine before the gagner injury, so i don't exactly have a lot of confidence in his abilities

a real GM would make a small deal for a 4th line center on a team that is in cap trouble (day like detroit)... something like a 3rd rounder for their 4th line C... i'll be utterly shocked if macT actually does anything though

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Old
09-23-2013, 08:27 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
if macT doesn't address the center problem before the season starts, we'll be lucky to win 4 or 5 games in october and the season is essentially over before it begins... i would say that i am confident in macT being aware of this, but this is the same GM who thought our center depth was perfectly fine before the gagner injury, so i don't exactly have a lot of confidence in his abilities

a real GM would make a small deal for a 4th line center on a team that is in cap trouble (day like detroit)... something like a 3rd rounder for their 4th line C... i'll be utterly shocked if macT actually does anything though
It's very possible that Craig MacTavish isn't done with the waiver wire yet.

It's also very possible that we may see a small deal considering the depth we've got on D.

But it also needs to be stated that missing your top two centres doesn't necessarily mean your team is done. Especially when guys like Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Hemsky and Perron are still in your top-six.

Highly skilled depth is nice to have. Personally I'd like another guy who can lay the body on the roster if a guy like Ryan Jones can't get the job done.

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Old
09-23-2013, 08:40 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
It's very possible that Craig MacTavish isn't done with the waiver wire yet.

It's also very possible that we may see a small deal considering the depth we've got on D.

But it also needs to be stated that missing your top two centres doesn't necessarily mean your team is done. Especially when guys like Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Hemsky and Perron are still in your top-six.

Highly skilled depth is nice to have. Personally I'd like another guy who can lay the body on the roster if a guy like Ryan Jones can't get the job done.
i think you are dreaming in techni-color if you think that this team is anywhere near good enough to get through the loss of both RNH/gagner... we are roughly a .500 team with them both *in* the lineup... we are very likely a .250-.300 team with them both out, and with hall playing out of position

unless macT can somehow find an actual NHL center, which is exceedingly unlikely, season is probably over by the middle of november to be honest

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Old
09-23-2013, 08:46 PM
  #784
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Guys writing off the season before it starts are like people writing off Nurse based on a couple games at the rookie tourney ... give them a chance to play at least before writing the epitaph.

While the centre situation sucks, people are forgetting that the first month can be the easiest time to rack up points. Players are rusty and systems aren't established. It's much easier to take advantage of teams at this time of year (which is probably why we got off to hot starts in recent seasons).

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Old
09-23-2013, 09:09 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Pennertration View Post
Guys writing off the season before it starts are like people writing off Nurse based on a couple games at the rookie tourney ... give them a chance to play at least before writing the epitaph.

While the centre situation sucks, people are forgetting that the first month can be the easiest time to rack up points. Players are rusty and systems aren't established. It's much easier to take advantage of teams at this time of year (which is probably why we got off to hot starts in recent seasons).
Yeah I agree to an extent. Besides RNH could be back by the 5th or 6th game and Gagner by the 10th or 11th game.

Hall, Yakupov, Hemsky, Perron, Eberle, J. Schultz is still considerably more talent than those 90s Oilers squads had ... what Eakins has to do is get this group to work as hard as those teams. Gordon, Ference are good vets to lean on and Joensuu looks like a good addition too, perhaps Belov will be as well.

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Old
09-24-2013, 07:02 AM
  #786
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I know it will never happen but in my ideal world, we trade N. Schultz for a pick, waive Ryan Jones and then offer sheet Derek Stepan. That would certainly solve our centre depth problem.

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Old
09-24-2013, 07:10 AM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
What I read from Laraque and what I see on the ice are two different things.

If enforcers were really scared of either they wouldnt fight eachother. And if you look at the Eastern conference almost all the enforcers fight exclusively eachother. Rarely do they fight anyone else. And they do it on a pretty regular basis. Maybe it because they make so much money that they mask their fear in order to suck it up and fight. But they still fight eachother at a rate that leads me to believe they dont fear eachother. And from watching fights these days, which are becoming hugging matches more and more often, I dont see where any fear would come from

And pests are still running around, depsite enforcers getting larger and larger.

Anyway, maybe Im wrong about them fearing eachother. But the point still stands goons have no place in their current roles, and have almost no impact on preventing injuries or acting as a deterrent. As many severe injuries took place on teams with goons (Savard, Crosby)
Do you like getting punched in the face?

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Old
09-24-2013, 07:20 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
I'll admit to seeing a lot of hugging matches in the NHL now. Some of Brown's fights tend to resemble those.

But a player on the opposing end has got this tattooed in their head when facing Steve MacIntyre...



Fights can still end your career. Just ask Raitis Ivanans.
Played 40 games in the KHL last year actually, dont know where he is now tho.

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Old
09-24-2013, 08:27 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
if macT doesn't address the center problem before the season starts, we'll be lucky to win 4 or 5 games in october and the season is essentially over before it begins... i would say that i am confident in macT being aware of this, but this is the same GM who thought our center depth was perfectly fine before the gagner injury, so i don't exactly have a lot of confidence in his abilities

a real GM would make a small deal for a 4th line center on a team that is in cap trouble (day like detroit)... something like a 3rd rounder for their 4th line C... i'll be utterly shocked if macT actually does anything though
Derek Stepan isn't signed yet. Not that an offer sheet is all that likely... Trade Hemsky somewhere like Colorado to clear cap... Offer Sheet Stepan around 5 mill... move one of Gagner/Stepan to RW when they are healthy and have a back up top 2 Center to cover future injuries.

Oh yeah and for a depth 4C Kings may be moving Colin Fraser before the season. The Kings also promise his foot isn't broken.

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Old
09-24-2013, 09:21 AM
  #790
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Dreger was just on 1260, he believes the Oilers aren't done in trying to bring in more toughness to the lineup. Suggested Jay Rosehill if he goes on waivers.

Isn't he a winger?

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Old
09-24-2013, 09:41 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Being a hockey enforcer is the toughest job in team pro sports. It's easy to down play these guys and say "well dooood, you don't have to fight, lol" behind a keyboard, it's not like that on ice level. These guys live and die with their rep and somes rage/pure emotion overcomes fear but you end up getting yourself in a lot of trouble. It's a chaotic existence, every day you go to work not knowing if you'll come home with a face that your girlfriend/wife can't recognize.

Not to mention the insanity of smashing your fists into someone else's hard plastic helmet before even being to get to pounding their face it. Even boxer's would probably shudder at that.

I genuinely felt bad for that Ivanans guy on the Flames when he went out cold. Hockey is pretty cruel sport
That sideshow and other like it have nothing to do with hockey.

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Old
09-24-2013, 09:47 AM
  #792
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Two that come to mind that we could get for the 4th line position now that Gags is down. I am not comfortable with Acton on the 4th.

Marty Reasner
Jerred Smithson

Anyone else you figure might be considered ?
I could careless who is on the 4th line at this point. Gordon being on our 2nd line and Lander or whoever on our 3rd is the problem at this moment.

Having the best 4th line center to ever play the 4th line isn't going to save us right now.

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Old
09-24-2013, 09:49 AM
  #793
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oilers are not done making moves and I foresee some one getting moved out

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09-24-2013, 09:57 AM
  #794
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Originally Posted by Fuhryous View Post
Dreger was just on 1260, he believes the Oilers aren't done in trying to bring in more toughness to the lineup. Suggested Jay Rosehill if he goes on waivers.

Isn't he a winger?
I don't get it, another Brown/Eager? Guy played 6 minutes in 11 games on a team that used 23 forwards last year? I don't see what he brings, unless we are that upset with Brown and Eager.

MacT talked about not just claiming a center that is slightly better than what we have, why would they claim yet another winger that is at best slightly better than what we have? Sure if he was 23 and had some potential, but he's 28 or 29.

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09-24-2013, 09:59 AM
  #795
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oilers are not done making moves and I foresee some one getting moved out
All the guys we want to move are guys that should go on waivers, I just don't know what there is for us out there. Unless a team needs Hemmer now? Any team lose a skilled top 6 winger that has cap space? I guess N.Schultz could be on the block, but that's another perfect fit situation.

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Old
09-24-2013, 10:03 AM
  #796
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I don't get it, another Brown/Eager? Guy played 6 minutes in 11 games on a team that used 23 forwards last year? I don't see what he brings, unless we are that upset with Brown and Eager.

MacT talked about not just claiming a center that is slightly better than what we have, why would they claim yet another winger that is at best slightly better than what we have? Sure if he was 23 and had some potential, but he's 28 or 29.
macT has his head up his arse when it comes to our centers... how a guy who PLAYED center in the NHL can view this vital position as being so non-important is beyond me

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Old
09-24-2013, 10:07 AM
  #797
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macT has his head up his arse when it comes to our centers... how a guy who PLAYED center in the NHL can view this vital position as being so non-important is beyond me
What is the point in picking up guys that we already have? We need him to go out and find someone that has either played 3rd line center or has been a 4th line center that is ready to become a 3rd liner.

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09-24-2013, 10:18 AM
  #798
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
if macT doesn't address the center problem before the season starts, we'll be lucky to win 4 or 5 games in october and the season is essentially over before it begins... i would say that i am confident in macT being aware of this, but this is the same GM who thought our center depth was perfectly fine before the gagner injury, so i don't exactly have a lot of confidence in his abilities

a real GM would make a small deal for a 4th line center on a team that is in cap trouble (day like detroit)... something like a 3rd rounder for their 4th line C... i'll be utterly shocked if macT actually does anything though
So you think that the season is essentially over unless MacT brings in a 4th line center?
Lets see how they play before writing off the season.

Also, you're assuming that both RNH and Gagner will be out for the entire month of October. RNH is already practicing in full contact drills, he's a couple of weeks away from playing his 1st game IMO and Gagner will likely be out between 2-4 weeks so it's not the end of the world. It'll be a bit of a struggle for a while but i think they'll be fine as long as they buy into Eakins system which so far they seem to be doing pretty well.


Last edited by CupofOil: 09-24-2013 at 10:23 AM.
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Old
09-24-2013, 10:28 AM
  #799
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I know it will never happen but in my ideal world, we trade N. Schultz for a pick, waive Ryan Jones and then offer sheet Derek Stepan. That would certainly solve our centre depth problem.
Does smid or petry and a first get you Stepan?

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09-24-2013, 10:30 AM
  #800
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Does smid or petry and a first get you Stepan?
They don't need defense, plus we can't afford to be giving top 4 d-men away.

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