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Who had the better peak, Jagr or Hasek?

View Poll Results: Who's peak was better, Jagr's or Hasek's?
Jagr 6 11.32%
Hasek 47 88.68%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-08-2013, 09:41 AM
  #26
Pilky01
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There was about a three year stretch there where Dominik Hasek might have been as dominant as any goalie to ever play.

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09-08-2013, 12:50 PM
  #27
Fred Taylor
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Hasek.

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Old
09-08-2013, 02:04 PM
  #28
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Livewell keeps praising Jagr at the expense of much better players. As far as single season (peak) goes:

Hasek 99 > Fedorov 94 > Jagr 99
Funny thing is, Jagr beat Hasek in 1999 for the Hart, Hasek wasn't even 2nd in Hart voting, Jagr beat out Yashin in Hart voting by almost a 2:1 ratio. Hasek was a distant 3rd.

Quote:
1998-99
HART: Jaromir Jagr 543 (51-4-1-0-0); Alexei Yashin 226 (0-23-9-5-5); Dominik Hasek 172 (4-10-8-5-7); Curtis Joseph 118 (1-5-10-7-2); Teemu Selanne 111 (0-3-14-5-5); Eric Lindros 77 (0-4-5-6-6); Peter Forsberg 61 (0-3-4-5-5); Paul Kariya 48 (0-2-2-6-6); Byron Dafoe 40 (0-1-1-7-7); Al MacInnis 24 (0-1-1-3-3); Mike Modano 13 (0-0-0-3-4); Pavol Demitra 7 (0-0-0-2-1); Steve Yzerman 7 (0-0-1-0-2); Ron Tugnutt 4 (0-0-0-1-1); Joe Sakic 3 (0-0-0-1-0); Martin Brodeur 1 (0-0-0-0-1); Mats Sundin 1 (0-0-0-0-1)
As for Fedorov, go look at the Poll, I see Jagr winning 66% to 33% for Fedorov.


Last edited by livewell68: 09-08-2013 at 03:20 PM.
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Old
09-08-2013, 02:12 PM
  #29
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As for those who keep claiming how Hasek somehow had the better peak, here is a list of HHOF Pts monitor and Jagr beats out Hasek between the 1994-95 and 2003-04 timeframe (and we're not even using Jagr's 2005-06 season):

Quote:
Player
POS
"HHOF Monitor" PTS (1994-95/2003-04)
Jagr Jaromir RW 2831.00
Hasek Dominik G 2203.50
Lidstrom Nicklas D 1915.80
Sakic Joe C 1843.00
Brodeur Martin G 1512.50
Forsberg Peter C 1426.00
Lemieux Mario C 1269.00
Kariya Paul LW 1249.00
Selanne Teemu RW 1188.50
Naslund Markus LW 1102.00
BTW this period also includes Jagr's "Washington years low"

I don't know, it seems to me Jagr has a significant lead over Hasek and the rest of the NHL. The fact that the stats and the proof as they say is in the pudding and yet people are voting for Hasek as having the better prime/ peak is beyond me.


Last edited by livewell68: 09-08-2013 at 02:23 PM.
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Old
09-08-2013, 02:20 PM
  #30
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More proof:

Quote:
This is new version of my research....

Columns:
#1 - Adj. GMS
#2 - Adj. PTS or Adj.WINS
#3 - Adj. PO GMS
#4 - Adj. PO PTS or Adj.PO WINS
#5 - Capt.
#6 - HARTS
#7 - HART Runner Up
#8 - 1 ALL STARS
#9 - 2 ALL STARS
#10 - GOAL #1
#11 - GOAL #2
#12 - PTS #1
#13 - PTS #2
#14 - NORRIS
#15 - NORRIS Runner Up
#16 - VEZINAS
#17 - VEZINA Runner Up
#18 - CONN SMYTHE
#19 - CUPS
#20 - FINALS


#-Car.-Seas.-POS-#1-#2-#3-#4-#5-#6-#7-#8-#9-#10-#11-#12-#13-#14-#15-#16-#17-#18-#19-#20 -HHOF?-"HHOF Mon. PTS"- Player
================================================== ================================================== ========================
0001-1979/1999-20-C-1544-2509-213-327-14-9-1-08-7-5-0-11-2-0-0-0-0-2-04-2-Y-7505,2-Gretzky Wayne
0002-1946/1980-26-R-2063-2114-307-316-04-6-1-12-9-5-5-06-1-0-0-0-0-1-04-7-Y-6401,0-Howe Gordie
0003-1984/2006-17-C-0927-1569-107-159-13-3-3-05-4-3-0-06-1-0-0-0-0-2-02-0-Y-4250,0-Lemieux Mario
0004-1942/1960-18-R-1254-1174-264-223-04-1-2-08-6-5-3-00-5-0-0-0-0-2-08-4-Y-4205,0-Richard Maurice
0005-1957/1980-16-L-1204-1224-200-207-00-2-2-10-2-7-2-03-3-0-0-0-0-0-01-3-Y-4138,0-Hull Bobby
0006-1979/2001-22-D-1667-1451-217-167-15-0-2-13-6-0-0-00-0-5-6-0-0-0-01-2-Y-4066,0-Bourque Ray
0007-1950/1971-20-C-1293-1339-295-314-10-2-4-06-3-2-1-01-2-0-0-0-0-2-10-3-Y-4055,5-Beliveau Jean
0008-1963/1981-18-C-1372-1501-190-169-03-2-2-06-2-6-1-05-3-0-0-0-0-0-02-3-Y-3989,0-Esposito Phil
0009-1966/1979-12-D-0701-0875-098-113-00-3-0-08-1-0-0-02-3-8-0-0-0-2-02-1-Y-3655,0-Orr Bobby
0010-1990/2006-15-R-1143-1550-149-157-03-1-4-07-1-0-4-05-2-0-0-0-0-0-02-0-F-3546,0-Jagr Jaromir

0011-1958/1980-22-C-1531-1461-252-223-02-2-1-06-3-0-3-04-1-0-0-0-0-1-01-4-Y-3402,0-Mikita Stan
0012-1926/1940-14-D-0972-0654-125-058-00-4-1-10-2-0-0-00-0-8-1-0-0-0-02-2-Y-3381,8-Shore Eddie
0013-1947/1969-20-D-1316-0652-267-145-01-0-1-10-1-0-0-00-0-8-2-0-0-0-06-5-Y-3353,2-Harvey Doug
0014-1952/1971-18-G-0967-0443-209-090-00-0-0-07-4-0-0-00-0-0-0-3-6-1-01-6-Y-3171,5-Hall Glenn
0015-1952/1973-18-G-0922-0477-209-134-00-1-0-03-4-0-0-00-0-0-0-7-1-1-06-4-Y-3089,5-Plante Jacques
0016-1947/1967-20-D-1564-0974-327-183-02-0-1-06-2-0-0-00-0-3-4-0-0-0-08-4-Y-2973,0-Kelly Red
0017-1979/2004-25-C-1809-1768-241-258-16-2-1-04-1-0-0-00-1-0-0-0-0-1-06-1-F-2826,0-Messier Mark
0018-1971/1991-17-R-1161-1165-162-149-00-2-1-06-0-1-3-03-0-0-0-0-0-1-05-0-Y-2774,5-Lafleur Guy
0019-1984/2003-19-G-1056-0561-248-152-00-0-1-04-2-0-0-00-0-0-0-3-2-3-04-1-Y-2668,5-Roy Patrick
0020-1949/1970-21-G-1069-0492-206-107-00-0-0-03-4-0-0-00-0-0-0-4-2-2-04-3-Y-2654,0-Sawchuk Terry
0021-1923/1937-14-C-1062-1114-120-085-00-3-1-05-2-1-1-02-0-0-0-0-0-1-03-1-Y-2612,0-Morenz Howie
0022-1944/1965-17-L-1327-1054-265-197-04-0-0-08-1-1-2-01-3-0-0-0-0-0-04-4-Y-2589,0-Lindsay Ted
0023-1990/2006-14-G-0665-0336-097-053-00-2-1-06-0-0-0-00-0-0-0-6-0-0-01-2-F-2585,0-Hasek Dominik
Quote:
Peak Performance (Total HHOF Monitor PTS, 3 consecutive seasons)

Player -- POS -- TEAM -- Last Seas. -- Total HHOF PTS (3 seas.)
================================================== ========
Gretzky Wayne -- C -- EDM -- 1984-85 -- 2057

Orr Bobby -- D -- BOS -- 1971-72 -- 1937,8

Lafleur Guy -- RW -- MTL -- 1977-78 -- 1727,5

Howe Gordie -- RW -- DET -- 1953-54 -- 1580
Jagr Jaromir -- RW -- PIT -- 1999-00 -- 1567,5
Esposito Phil -- C -- BOS -- 1973-74 -- 1553,5
Hasek Dominik -- G -- BUF -- 1998-99 -- 1511

Hull Bobby -- LW -- CHI -- 1965-66 -- 1464,5
Mikita Stan -- C -- CHI -- 1967-68 -- 1400
Beliveau Jean -- C -- MTL -- 1956-57 -- 1307,5

Lalonde Newsy -- C -- MTL -- 1920-21 -- 1235
Lemieux Mario -- C -- PIT -- 1988-89 -- 1225
Quote:
Best players by decade: 1990-00

Player
POS
"HHOF Monitor" PTS
Jaromir "Jags" Jagr RW 2642,00
Dominik "The Dominator" Hasek G 2151,00
Mario "Super Mario" Lemieux C 2139,50
Wayne "The Great One" Gretzky C 1637,70
Ray "Bubba" Bourque D 1633,20
Brett "The Golden Brett" Hull RW 1408,45
Teemu "The Finnish Flash" Selanne RW 1365,50
Ed "The Eagle" Belfour G 1243,00
Patrick "St Patrick" Roy G 1214,50
Steve "Stevie Wonder" Yzerman C 1213,00
Quote:
As for spilts:

1990-95 Lemieux Mario C 1214.00
1990-95 Gretzky Wayne C 1184.00
1990-95 Bourque Ray D 1147.85
1990-95 Hull Brett RW 1044.00
1990-95 Belfour Ed G 899.00
1990-95 Roy Patrick G 867.00
1990-95 Jagr Jaromir RW 780.00
1990-95 Stevens Kevin LW 755.50
1990-95 Fedorov Sergei C 716.00
1990-95 Chelios Chris D 663.90

1995-00 Jagr Jaromir RW 1862.00
1995-00 Hasek Dominik G 1538.50
1995-00 Selanne Teemu RW 994.00
1995-00 Kariya Paul LW 927.00
1995-00 Lemieux Mario C 925.50
1995-00 Lidstrom Nicklas D 890.60
1995-00 Yzerman Steve C 720.00
1995-00 Forsberg Peter C 670.50
1995-00 Leclair John LW 653.50
1995-00 Brodeur Martin G 627.00

2000-04 Sakic Joe C 1135.50
2000-04 Lidstrom Nicklas D 968.00
2000-04 Naslund Markus LW 947.50
2000-04 Iginla Jarome RW 932.50
2000-04 Brodeur Martin G 755.50
2000-04 Forsberg Peter C 655.50
2000-04 St. Louis Martin RW 625.50
2000-04 Roy Patrick G 538.50
2000-04 Jagr Jaromir RW 497.00
2000-04 Sundin Mats C 476.00
Going by these measures, you folks tell me, who had the better peak? That last chart showing splits is probably the best indicator of who had the better peak, 1995-2000 was Jagr's and Hasek's true peaks, yet it is Jagr and not Hasek who leads the list for that era. Jagr shows up in all 3 splits while Hasek only shows up in 1995-00.


Last edited by livewell68: 09-08-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old
09-08-2013, 02:50 PM
  #31
jcbio11
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It's always difficult to compare the accomplishments of a goalie and a skater, but this is Hasek. Best goalie ever IMO.

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09-08-2013, 02:53 PM
  #32
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
It's always difficult to compare the accomplishments of a goalie and a skater, but this is Hasek. Best goalie ever IMO.
Check out the HHOF monitoring for points, Roy, Sawchuk and Plante all placed higher than Hasek.

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Old
09-08-2013, 07:42 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Check out the HHOF monitoring for points, Roy, Sawchuk and Plante all placed higher than Hasek.
You asked who had the better peak not career. Hasek's peak was better.

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Old
09-08-2013, 07:55 PM
  #34
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daver View Post
You asked who had the better peak not career. Hasek's peak was better.
Yet you deliberately ignored all those lists I showed you where they ranked players based on HHOF monitoring "Pts" by decade and splits and Jagr still beat out Hasek. Since you are purposely ignoring it, I am going to paste it on here again.

Quote:
Peak Performance (Total HHOF Monitor PTS, 3 consecutive seasons)

Player -- POS -- TEAM -- Last Seas. -- Total HHOF PTS (3 seas.)
================================================== ========
Gretzky Wayne -- C -- EDM -- 1984-85 -- 2057

Orr Bobby -- D -- BOS -- 1971-72 -- 1937,8

Lafleur Guy -- RW -- MTL -- 1977-78 -- 1727,5

Howe Gordie -- RW -- DET -- 1953-54 -- 1580
Jagr Jaromir -- RW -- PIT -- 1999-00 -- 1567,5
Esposito Phil -- C -- BOS -- 1973-74 -- 1553,5
Hasek Dominik -- G -- BUF -- 1998-99 -- 1511

Hull Bobby -- LW -- CHI -- 1965-66 -- 1464,5
Mikita Stan -- C -- CHI -- 1967-68 -- 1400
Beliveau Jean -- C -- MTL -- 1956-57 -- 1307,5

Lalonde Newsy -- C -- MTL -- 1920-21 -- 1235
Lemieux Mario -- C -- PIT -- 1988-89 -- 1225
Quote:
Best players by decade: 1990-00 (Which is a very good indication of who had the better peak since Jagr and Hasek peaked at the same time)

Player
POS
"HHOF Monitor" PTS
Jaromir "Jags" Jagr RW 2642,00
Dominik "The Dominator" Hasek G 2151,00
Mario "Super Mario" Lemieux C 2139,50
Wayne "The Great One" Gretzky C 1637,70
Ray "Bubba" Bourque D 1633,20
Brett "The Golden Brett" Hull RW 1408,45
Teemu "The Finnish Flash" Selanne RW 1365,50
Ed "The Eagle" Belfour G 1243,00
Patrick "St Patrick" Roy G 1214,50
Steve "Stevie Wonder" Yzerman C 1213,00
Quote:
As for spilts:

1990-95 Lemieux Mario C 1214.00
1990-95 Gretzky Wayne C 1184.00
1990-95 Bourque Ray D 1147.85
1990-95 Hull Brett RW 1044.00
1990-95 Belfour Ed G 899.00
1990-95 Roy Patrick G 867.00
1990-95 Jagr Jaromir RW 780.00
1990-95 Stevens Kevin LW 755.50
1990-95 Fedorov Sergei C 716.00
1990-95 Chelios Chris D 663.90

This split is probably the most important and relevant chart for this topic since 1995-2000 is the precise time both Hasek and Jagr peaked and yet again Jagr comes out on top.

1995-00 Jagr Jaromir RW 1862.00
1995-00 Hasek Dominik G 1538.50
1995-00 Selanne Teemu RW 994.00
1995-00 Kariya Paul LW 927.00
1995-00 Lemieux Mario C 925.50
1995-00 Lidstrom Nicklas D 890.60
1995-00 Yzerman Steve C 720.00
1995-00 Forsberg Peter C 670.50
1995-00 Leclair John LW 653.50
1995-00 Brodeur Martin G 627.00

__________________________________________________ _______________

2000-04 Sakic Joe C 1135.50
2000-04 Lidstrom Nicklas D 968.00
2000-04 Naslund Markus LW 947.50
2000-04 Iginla Jarome RW 932.50
2000-04 Brodeur Martin G 755.50
2000-04 Forsberg Peter C 655.50
2000-04 St. Louis Martin RW 625.50
2000-04 Roy Patrick G 538.50
2000-04 Jagr Jaromir RW 497.00
2000-04 Sundin Mats C 476.00
Not only did Jagr peak higher, he also peaked for longer.

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Old
09-08-2013, 08:14 PM
  #35
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If I am picking peak I often lump that into a couple different categories. For starters, it can be over a few year period. In that case it really would take a long time to analyse this but my gut instinct says Hasek..........barely.

But to pick just one season where they played their best (Hasek 1998, Jagr 1999) I give the edge to Hasek.

Jagr had one of the greatest seasons in NHL history in 1999. But Hasek in 1998 was otherworldly. 13 shutouts. Gold Medal. Vezina, Hart (and it wasn't even a debate), took a team that may have been getting a top 5 pick in the draft otherwise to the semis. That team had NO ONE to write home about. And yes he did get them to the final in 1999 but there wasn't that separation like 1998 when he was just so good that it was scary. He got into a player's head before they even stepped on the ice. He was out of position and not even looking at the puck when you said "We got him" only to see him put the paddle of his stick on the ice and stop it.

He was just unreal that season.

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09-08-2013, 10:14 PM
  #36
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