HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

5NYRs w/Buf, Car, Nash, Wini + Edm

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-07-2013, 06:14 PM
  #1
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
5NYRs w/Buf, Car, Nash, Wini + Edm

Not one super trade to be attacked as outlandish, but 4 reasonable deals, plus last one less certain b/c would have Oilers trade Yakupov. However all 5 are financially sound, as explained.

1. RW Ryan Callahan (4.275m) + G Martin Biron (1.3m) + W Darroll Powe (1,066,667) + W Taylor Pyatt (1.55m) + rights to W Adam Tambellini (unsigned first selection this year, $ would = ELC) Total = $8,191.667
To Buf for
G Ryan Miller (6.250m) + D Rasmus Ristolainen (1.775m) Total $7,825,000
Net differential on cap $376,667 added by Rangers
5 for 2 including 2 cap dumps, so its really more like 3+ for 2

Discussion:
NY lose their heart and soul, but gain a terrific top ten asset for down the road, even with surrendering their own top pick from this year. Lose Biron but when Miller moved may get backup vet in return based on who has become available; alternatively can do Talbot while waiting for acceptable vet option to emerge (which is not a given IMO as to if necessary), Talbotís glove IMO is NHL fast, it is the rest of his game that has to catch up. Could move prospect Stacjer with small asset for a backup, esp. if that team looking for a cap dump. Shed deadwood in Powe and Pyatt, so when Miller moved, = nice cap recovery.

Buf gets a favorite hometown hero (Rochester, close enuf), and was having trouble getting its price for Miller on short notice of sudden availability [legit interest but not able to do the high cap so quickly]. Add a nice prospect in Tambellini, who could turn into Callahan lite as Cally starts to latter/end phase of career; surplus of cap differential would go towards 1st contract. Is sacrificing a nice D prospect, but one not available this year anyway, and Sabres strong at the moment on backline. Take on surplus for lower 6 will have to move, possibly to team like Oilers, at certain discount which = partial loss, but was only 1 yr on end of their packages.


2. G Ryan Miller (6.250m) + D Justin Falk (.975m [1 yr then RFA) D Danny Syvret (.587m (1 yr) + F Michael St. Croix (ELC, .870m for three years) Total = $8,682,000
to Carolina for
D Justin Faulk (.9m [1 yr then RFA, end of ELC] + F Jeff Skinner, (5.725m [x6 has NTC but does not kick in until 2017-18 season]) Total = $6,625,000
Net differential on cap $2,057,667 added by Hurricanes
however, most of that is in Ryan Millerís salary this year only, well worth the price for the first 2 months of the season, and would be off the books less what comes back the other way when Miller is traded. Also, Faulk would be due for a big raise going forward not reflected here.
4 for 2

Discussion:
Rangers land Faulk as cheaper upgrade to Girardi, then use Skinner to get Jones as well.

Canes, on paper big (6'4") Brett Bellemore, w/ 2 AHL seasons + cup of coffee w/Canes last year, will compete at RD as will 2011 12th overall Ryan Murphy easing loss of Faulk. Falk + Syvret = nice lower/depth LD add. MSC has legit track record as scorer. Loss of Skinner hurts, but that is a big contract, [were considering moving one of those anyway] so you get some flexibility after this year. The real package is Ryan Miller, who will more than hold the fort and save the early season for the Canes as Cam Ward [proj. out at least 8 weeks] heals, and the offers mature. Unless Miller fully reverts to Vezina form, and likes it down South and signs extension [believed he will seek points West after next year], and with smaller offers for Ward, it is Miller who will be sold to the highest bidder, perhaps at the last minute, but that is likely to be a pretty penny for clubs seeking a top G for playoff push and first crack at signing him beyond this season.


3. D Girardi (3.325m [1yr]) + F Skinner + (5.725m [x6 has NTC but not until 2017-18 season]) + LW Brandon Mashinter (.605m [1 yr]) + 2014 NYR 1st Total = $9,655,000
to Nashville for
D Seth Jones (3.225m [3yr ELC]) + C Colin Wilson (2m) [2yrs] + C Matt Cullen (3.5m [for 2 years, also a 35+ contract which counts vs cap in nearly all cases]) + 2014 Nashville 1st
Total = $8,725,000
Net differential on cap $880,000 added by Predators
however, Preds unload a 35+ contract that pays this year and next
4 for 4 (3 for 3 players + 1 for 1 picks)

Discussion
Rangers obviously gamble Jones is top of the draft quality. Wilson is a C who looks promising, but missed many games last season with bad shoulder. Cullen must be slowing down though still seems to have enough speed and thus is not deadwood, just pricy vs cheaper production. He is, however, a fixture on the roster (cap) for 2 years unless we pay to have him taken off our hands or get equal value at other position w/better contract. NY hopes to advance slots, from perhaps end of selection to middle of pack, at the draft with the flip of picks.

Predators get immediate use of Girardi [would have been waiting until Jones makes the club] w/inside track at extension or late option at deadline to move for premium to likely need team; get desperately needed proven scoring wrapped up long term in Skinner; huge cap benefit from subtraction of Cullen, surely, and project immediate short term benefit if Wilson would need time to heal, assuming he returns to form. Mashinter is outside shot to make 4th line as grinder/goon; is that worth 600k? Regardless, still huge cap relief from other parts of package. Obviously, swap of 1sts not good but worth this package.


4. C Matt Cullen (3.5m 2 years]) Rangers eat max half contract for first year only + W Thomas Spelling [W shoots l] (unsigned)+ Total = $1,750,000m
to Jets for
D Zach Redmond (.715m 1 yr, RFA) + D Paul Postma (.712m 2yrs, RFA)
[1.427 + 1.75 half hit on Cullen] Total = $3,177,000
Net differential on cap $1,427,000 added by Rangers
Jets obtain a 35+ contract but that is minimized for this year
2 for 2

Discussion
Rangers obviously pay Jets to take Cullen, where he is a depth fit. Spelling was a later pick, but, while early, he shows promise. Jets D enough it can move both Redmond and Postma, a project barely in their plans.

Jets prob donít do this with Cullen at full pop, but max of half on next year is fine. Cap goes up after, and have options as to Cullen in last year with Winnipeg. Speed, vet presence, are immediately useful now that not overpriced. Spelling an interesting project; maybe, best case scenario, a Hagelin lite with less speed, but better shot. At this point Postma not even on the bubble, and Redmond is a productive D, but Jets can work around.


5 D MDZ (2.255m this yr, then RFA) + LW Poillot (1.3m this yr then UFA) + C Wilson+ RW Derek Dorsett (1.633,333 x 2yrs then UFA) + Nashville 2014 1st
Total = $7,188,333.
to Oilers for
LW Yakupov (3.775m x 2, then RFA) + D Potter (.775m this yr, then UFA) + LW Ryan Jones, (1.5m then UFA) in cap dump ; Yak is bonus eligible.
Total = $6,050,000*
*$6.050m actual + bonuses on Yak
Net differential on cap $1,133,333 actual added by Oilers
not counting bonuses for Yakupov
5 for 3 (4 players + 1 pick for 3 players)

Rangers obviously pay high but get a top 1LW. Balance are cap dump.
Donít expect Edmonton to be willing to give to get, but consider; yeah, itís a lot coming back, a recent first overall (Yakupov), but this is 1) first rounder Del Zotto whom Howson covets and projects as top first pair with J. Schultz; 2) an entire line addressing badly needed bottom 6 depth, of whom Wilson, upon recovering from bad shoulder, could be top 6, not bottom six material, and 3) a first next year from Nashville (4th overall this year, could still be top 10 this year, maybe). Thatís a lot for 1 guy, considering balance is throw in, for cap. Also on top of base, Yakupov is bonus eligible, so that 3.775m could tack on more easily enough if he is not injured. So moving Yak for multiple productive pieces deals with needed salary redistribution.


------------

Conclusion
deal 2 = Net differential on cap $2,057,667 added by Hurricanes
deal 3 = Net differential on cap $880,000 added by Predators
Subtotal credit to Rangers = $2,937,667
Less deal 1 $376,667 added by Rangers
Less deal 4 $1,427,000 added by Rangers
Subtotal debit to Rangers = $1,803,667

Net final total likely deals 1-4, $2,937,667 - $1,803,667 = $1,134,000 NYR saves

If add speculative deal w/Edm, then
$1,134,000 NYR saves + $1,133,333 = $2,267,333, not counting likely bonuses to Yakupov. So, in rough ballpark terms, arithmetic shows as to financials, the cap is close to wash and all deals are do-able.

------------
Roster: If only through deal 4:
Hagelin Stepan Nash
Kreider Brassard Fast/Kristo/MZA
Boyle Richards Asham
Poillot Moore Dorsett

Wilson, Miller, Lindberg Yogan

McD Faulk
Staal Stralman
MDZ Redmond
Moore McIlrath
Johnson

------------
Roster: If Edmonton does deal 5 also:
Yakupov Stepan Nash
Kreider Brassard Fast/Kristo/MZA
Hagelin Richards Yogan
Boyle More Asham/Miller

RyanJones Lindberg
Give Yogan a shot at RW to retain value of an asset w/potential by developing, rather than losing him; next year Miller full time, Lindberg replaces Richards

McD Faulk
Staal Stralman
Moore Redmond
Johnson McIlrath/Potter

and in either event
soon, Jones Then Skjei, Noreau, Ristolainen
with a better crop of D developing

constructive comments welcome

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:17 PM
  #2
Gardner McKay
Moderator
Niles, Pls.
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 10,727
vCash: 50
Dear god no. Please. This is a straight embarrassment to the NYR fan base.

__________________
Gardner McKay is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:22 PM
  #3
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
Dear god no. Please. This is a straight embarrassment to the NYR fan base.
Fear not, I am sure the entirety of HFB knows by now I speak my own independent voice, with or without consensus, with or without the approval of any particular fan/base.

You are welcome to your comments.
Feel free to add anything constructive.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:23 PM
  #4
bigbadbruins1
Registered User
 
bigbadbruins1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,626
vCash: 500
dude... wow. quit while you are ahead. there is no deal here that benefits any team other than the rangers

Edit:
As constructive criticism... why does Carolina want ryan miller when they have cam ward locked up?

bigbadbruins1 is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:25 PM
  #5
is the answer jesus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,198
vCash: 500
Bad trade for Buffalo. If Callahan were locked down long term it would be worth considering, but as it stands now he'll likely walk on us at the end of the year.

is the answer jesus is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:26 PM
  #6
Mint
Kall Up Kostka
 
Mint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Waterloo
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,689
vCash: 50
Nice try. Oilers hang up when they hear 'Yakupov'.

Mint is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:26 PM
  #7
Senators65
Registered User
 
Senators65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 9,284
vCash: 500
All those trade proposals are bad.


Last edited by Senators65: 09-07-2013 at 06:35 PM.
Senators65 is online now  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:27 PM
  #8
tc23
Moderator
#StopWeberSbisa2014
 
tc23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,945
vCash: 500
Following this series of trades, the NY Rangers are sentenced to 20 years for ****.

This is absolutely terrible for every team that isn't the NY Rangers.

tc23 is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:30 PM
  #9
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,068
vCash: 562
**** no from a Canes standpoint. Where the heck are you even getting your information that Ward is expected to even be out for the start of the season, yet alone the first two months? I have yet to see any source, yet alone a credible one, speculate anything close to that. All information on Ward at this point has been basically stating that he's ready to go. If they had been putting out these doom and gloom scenarios it would have been ALL over the Canes board, see the Pitkanen threads in there for reference on that.

And besides, we're not giving up a 21 year old #1 defenseman for a ****ing one-year rental goalie we'd have no intentions of re-signing, yet alone throwing Jeff ****ing Skinner in on that joke of a package. We'd ride Khudobin/Peters at that point.

DaveG is online now  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:32 PM
  #10
Krampus
Call me Nils
 
Krampus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NYC
Country: Austria
Posts: 17,832
vCash: 500
A lot of work for not really changing or roster at all...

Krampus is online now  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:34 PM
  #11
JDs Straight Shot
Registered User
 
JDs Straight Shot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 56
vCash: 500
I salute you for taking the time to type all of that. These are all terrible.

JDs Straight Shot is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:34 PM
  #12
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbadbruins1 View Post
dude... wow. quit while you are ahead. there is no deal here that benefits any team other than the rangers

Edit:
As constructive criticism... why does Carolina want ryan miller when they have cam ward locked up?
Cam Ward is out at least 8 weeks approx start of season w/injury.
And it could be worse.

Miller allows them to have full use of Miller until Ward is 100% healthy AND ready, no rust.

By that time, likely Miller will show his excellent form and get Buf top dollar for him.

Were you aware of the CW injury?

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:39 PM
  #13
haterbehatin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Cam Ward is out at least 8 weeks approx start of season w/injury.
And it could be worse.

Miller allows them to have full use of Miller until Ward is 100% healthy AND ready, no rust.

By that time, likely Miller will show his excellent form and get Buf top dollar for him.

Were you aware of the CW injury?
So they trade their top defenseman and arguably their best goal scorer for a backup goalie to keep them in the hunt after you've gutted their team and made them non competitive.

Carolina as well as every other team in these proposed mess of transactions declines.

haterbehatin is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:39 PM
  #14
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Bad trade for Buffalo. If Callahan were locked down long term it would be worth considering, but as it stands now he'll likely walk on us at the end of the year.
Fair enough, and an OTHERWISE legit concern.
However, why should anyone expect that to be the case?
Indeed, more likely he would enjoy that close to home.
Of course, home and hometown discount are 2 different things --- you have to pay him.

But if you pay ballpark what he wants, I don't see how you can claim he's up likely to up and walk. Your $$ is as good as anybody else's.

Also, Buf PREFERS to move Miller now, and this does that.While the principal asset is pricey, it does not immediately subtract from the big club, and Tambellini from Rangers is legit some of that value going the other way.

Thanks for the ?

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:41 PM
  #15
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Bad trade for Buffalo. If Callahan were locked down long term it would be worth considering, but as it stands now he'll likely walk on us at the end of the year.
Forgot to add, that might be possible to extend prior. Again, however assumes you will pay real value for a real player.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:41 PM
  #16
Frank Booth239*
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lumberton, NC
Posts: 257
vCash: 500
The thought of having Ryan Miller on the Hurricanes is the most illogical concept I've ever heard of.

Who told you that Ward is going to be out the 1st 8 weeks of the season? That's an outrageous claim.

Besides, we have Khudobin now, who appears to be perfectly adequate for doing the heavy lifting if Cam goes down again.

Failing that...there's always Tim Thomas floating around.

But, LOL at giving up our best D man, when we don't have much of a D in the first place.

Frank Booth239* is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:43 PM
  #17
CaptainCally
Registered User
 
CaptainCally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Inb4 they bannish this thread to hell!


Changes of all this happening?


In real life: 0%

In NHL 13: eh, sure why not **** it. GIMME ALL YOUR YOUNG STUDS!


Kids this is what happens when you play videogames too often...

CaptainCally is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:43 PM
  #18
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep View Post
Nice try. Oilers hang up when they hear 'Yakupov'.
Yeah, I made the partial disclaimer about EDM on that point.

That is a deal EDM should do, because posts of your own base testify as to how atrocious your bottom 6 is.

This addresses in one fell swoop a chunk of that, and more.

But you gotta give to get, and Oilers always hold their stars.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:44 PM
  #19
Krampus
Call me Nils
 
Krampus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NYC
Country: Austria
Posts: 17,832
vCash: 500
I still don't quiet know why the Rangers do this. We end up with more defensemen, which we already have a surplus of, and AHL players in our top-9...

Krampus is online now  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:44 PM
  #20
CaptainCally
Registered User
 
CaptainCally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Bern if you put down half the time you put down on making proposals on something else you'd be a billionaire, you're relentless. Go get 'em!

CaptainCally is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:44 PM
  #21
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensBruins4Ever View Post
All those trade proposals are bad.
Thanks.
Feel free to elaborate.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:45 PM
  #22
Vladys Gumption
Moderator
Trap City
 
Vladys Gumption's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 8,393
vCash: 500
Pretty sure Edmonton laughs and hangs up. If Yankupov is going to the Rangers, I'd fully expect Edmonton to demand McDonough+.

Vladys Gumption is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:45 PM
  #23
Ceremony
Moderator
There is Only You
 
Ceremony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 77,067
vCash: 10918
I doubt the Rangers trade their captain.

__________________
ďItís embarrassing. Iím embarrassed to be here right now. Itís not even funny. And itís just embarrassing, the way we, you know, the energy we have in the room and the way we approach practices and the way we approach this game. Itís not how youíre going to win any games in this league." - Jean-Sebastien Giguere, April 8 2013
Ceremony is online now  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:46 PM
  #24
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc23 View Post
Following this series of trades, the NY Rangers are sentenced to 20 years for ****.

This is absolutely terrible for every team that isn't the NY Rangers.
Feel free to elaborate, but again, to justify your comments, show a correct rationale, not mere ad hominum comment.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
09-07-2013, 06:47 PM
  #25
Beerz
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Beerz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 11,843
vCash: 500
Buffalo says no rather easily.

To be polite I won't laugh.

Beerz is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.