HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

With Parros and Murray, Are the Habs No Longer a Meek Team?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-23-2013, 10:16 PM
  #1
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 12,686
vCash: 500
With Parros and Murray, Are the Habs No Longer a Meek Team?

I'm looking for some opinions from relative experts on this matter, are the additions of Parros and Murray, and eventually Tinordi, mean that we are no longer a meek team? Do we finally have size:

- Relative to most of the league?
- Relative to most of our division?

In terms of fighting ability, we have Parros, Murray, Prust, Moen, White, Bouillon, thus covering all of the different weight classes well I think. Chara will still be a problem (though he is getting up there in years), but Orr, Fraser, McLaren, Thornton, Lucic, Neil, Kassian, Ott, etc. should be less so. I still won't like them on the ice, but it shouldn't portend doom like it did in previous seasons.

In the short-term, Tinordi will eventually join the team and is probably the first or second call-up once an injury happens, the other contestant is Nathan Beaulieu, who is also an excellent fighter but one weight class down. In the long-term, McCarron might join the team, and is billed as a fighter by Habs management and by himself.

Aside from that, we have several players who though not fighters, are capable of either assuming their own space or acquiring space for the team as a whole: Eller, Subban, Emelin. Finally, Galchenyuk, Bourque, and Pacioretty are either space-neutral or slightly space-positive, I'd have to pay better attention to say for sure.

Briere and Desharnais are space-negative, so I realise the situation is not ideal, but it might still be improving.


Last edited by DAChampion: 08-23-2013 at 10:32 PM.
DAChampion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2013, 10:25 PM
  #2
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 27,093
vCash: 1093
When MTL had Staubitz they were a different club on the ice. While he was a plug and didn't really contribute much, the fact that he took the pressure of Moen and some of the other guys and was loved in the room they all grew a couple inches and played that much harder.

I think Parros being a respected and well-liked guy, and if he does do his job well it will make the team much better in the sense of compete and ruggedness.

Murray I think will just solidify the 3rd pairing if he can come into camp in shape and ready to go. Add a bit of meat and get Markov off the PK to save his legs a bit. He was awful in that position last year and it really hurt his game down the stretch.

Habsawce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2013, 10:26 PM
  #3
habsfan22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 28
vCash: 500
In terms of toughness and ability to throw down when games get ugly, the habs are now able to hang with any team in the league. They will be able to impose their will against most teams, and won't have to back down from teams like Toronto and Boston.

habsfan22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2013, 10:46 PM
  #4
puckeater
Registered User
 
puckeater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 497
vCash: 500
To all this I say, Hallelujah! The days of reckoning have come!

puckeater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2013, 10:51 PM
  #5
dackelljuneaubulis02
Registered User
 
dackelljuneaubulis02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfan22 View Post
In terms of toughness and ability to throw down when games get ugly, the habs are now able to hang with any team in the league. They will be able to impose their will against most teams, and won't have to back down from teams like Toronto and Boston.
Yup Toronto was starting to look scary mean but not any more. Parros will lose the odd decision against the heaviest of heavies at the very worst. No one manhandles him or puts him on his a$$.

Murray doesn't seem to lose at all though he isn't the prettiest fighter he just seems so strong and tough. Looks like he can go with just about anybody.

You can almost say the same about Prust. He's just such a solid fighter that he can go way above his weight class and really just lose a decision at worst. No matter who he fights he doesn't look bad.

Add to that White who has pitiful technique but is a willing combatant. Sometimes he can fare very well or look pretty rough but he's such a gamer that he's still a boon in the toughness department.

Even though Moen has been disappointing overall in the toughness department he'll still drop them from time to time albeit in the most unspectacular fashion. He's still strong enough to eek out a draw with some fairly tough customers.

Tinordi might never live up to his father in pugilistic terms and he might not be as bada$$ as some would like but he still has a lot of room to grow and should be able to hold his own with some pretty big boys.

Dumont can drop them too and fares pretty well for a smaller guy. Hell even Gallagher doesn't look too bad with some average sized guys.

Throw in Cube and you got a 8-9 players who can throw down. Three of which are as tough as they come. Team toughness issues have been addressed and then some. In sheer fighting terms we might be overall tougher than Toronto now who are probably the toughest in the division.

dackelljuneaubulis02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2013, 11:00 PM
  #6
dackelljuneaubulis02
Registered User
 
dackelljuneaubulis02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,335
vCash: 500
oh yeah and I forgot Bourque who isn't the most willing but can definitely do it and do it pretty well too.

dackelljuneaubulis02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2013, 11:45 PM
  #7
Jake5
Registered User
 
Jake5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 631
vCash: 500
I think the team we've got at this point is fairly tough. not all of these guys are fighters of course, but we've got Emelin, Subban, Tinordi, Murray, Bouillon, Parros, Moen, White, and Prust who are all fairly physical/tough...and then guys such as Eller, Paccioretty and Bourque who aren't among the toughest but definitely have the physicality to hold their own on the ice.

this year's Habs probably won't strike fear in anyone hearts but they will not be so easy to push around any more

Jake5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-23-2013, 11:46 PM
  #8
CN_paladin
Registered User
 
CN_paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westeros
Posts: 2,903
vCash: 500
When it comes to hitting and fighting, Murray has terrific balance for a 240 LB "wall" and very rarely falls on his arse unlike DD.

Also he doesn't like Neil which gives him extra brownie points in my books.


CN_paladin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 01:39 AM
  #9
Son Oncle Jerry
Formerly HiggsBozon
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,940
vCash: 500
Absolutely. Signing guys like Parros and Murray for the bottom of our lineup actually goes a long way to improve our team toughness as a whole. Remember the Darche - Engqvist - Weber line? I do. And it still hurts enough to make me God damn happy about what happened this summer. Your depth players must provide character to your team, as well as an identity. We chose to fill these roles with hole-pluggers under Gauthier. Now, we actually have tough guys.

Off topic (at some extent), but against Ottawa in the preseason, I wouldn't mind if we iced a lineup similar to this:

Pacioretty - Eller - Briere
Bourque - Dumont - McCarron
Moen - Prust - White
Crisp - Tarnasky - Parros

Tinordi - Subban
Murray - Bouillon
Beaulieu - Dietz


You wanted to play it tough against us? Calling timeouts 15 seconds from the end? Waving the crowd after "beating" on a 37 years old, 5'8 guy with a broken finger?

Time for payback. And what better time than in the preseason, when games don't matter.

Bring it on, McLean. Prust, Moen, White, Parros, Tarnasky, Crisp, Tinordi, Murray, Bouillon, Beaulieu, Dietz. Try to outdo that in scrums.

Son Oncle Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 01:46 AM
  #10
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 12,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Absolutely. Signing guys like Parros and Murray for the bottom of our lineup actually goes a long way to improve our team toughness as a whole. Remember the Darche - Engqvist - Weber line? I do. And it still hurts enough to make me God damn happy about what happened this summer. Your depth players must provide character to your team, as well as an identity. We chose to fill these roles with hole-pluggers under Gauthier. Now, we actually have tough guys.

Off topic (at some extent), but against Ottawa in the preseason, I wouldn't mind if we iced a lineup similar to this:

Pacioretty - Eller - Briere
Bourque - Dumont - McCarron
Moen - Prust - White
Crisp - Tarnasky - Parros

Tinordi - Subban
Murray - Bouillon
Beaulieu - Dietz


You wanted to play it tough against us? Calling timeouts 15 seconds from the end? Waving the crowd after "beating" on a 37 years old, 5'8 guy with a broken finger?

Time for payback. And what better time than in the preseason, when games don't matter.

Bring it on, McLean. Prust, Moen, White, Parros, Tarnasky, Crisp, Tinordi, Murray, Bouillon, Beaulieu, Dietz. Try to outdo that in scrums.
Agree with all of it except the part where you suggest McCarron provide toughness.

In the future, yes. In the present, no.

DAChampion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 01:47 AM
  #11
Son Oncle Jerry
Formerly HiggsBozon
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Agree with all of it except the part where you suggest McCarron provide toughness.

In the future, yes. In the present, no.
Would I count on him to drop the gloves in a smashfest? No. Not enough experience.

That being said, you can be sure he would just destroy everything in sight if he plays an preseason game like this in Montreal. And we'd have plenty of guys so he'd not have to worry about fighting.

Son Oncle Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 01:50 AM
  #12
Bargainbin4Pres
Registered User
 
Bargainbin4Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Netherlands Antilles
Posts: 4,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Absolutely. Signing guys like Parros and Murray for the bottom of our lineup actually goes a long way to improve our team toughness as a whole. Remember the Darche - Engqvist - Weber line?
Just thinking about it hurts my insides.

Bargainbin4Pres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 01:53 AM
  #13
Son Oncle Jerry
Formerly HiggsBozon
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kassian View Post
Just thinking about it hurts my insides.
Exactly what it should do to any sane fan.

Some fans don't remember where we come from. What we have endured. The abuse we have taken.

Bergevin is proving right now that modifying the bottom-end of your lineup can be very affordable, quickly done, and has the potential to significantly change the dynamic/makeup of your team. For some reason, Gauthier just refused to do it. As if changing the outlook of your checking line and bottom-pairing was going to take away all the speed away from your team...

Still, those lines are often the one who provide an identity to your team. And while we could use one big body in our scoring lines, guys like Pacioretty, Eller and Bourque are far from being softies out there.

Son Oncle Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 02:04 AM
  #14
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Canberra, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 12,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Some fans don't remember where we come from. What we have endured. The abuse we have taken.
It hasn't been that long. The Habs have lacked size for as long as I've been following hockey as an adult, all the way through to 2013.

When I look at the offseason changes, as well as last season's and what we have in the system, it looks like things may be different, but I'm so conditioned to thinking of the Habs as small and meek that I have a hard time processing it mentally. Hence this thread.

DAChampion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 02:29 AM
  #15
Son Oncle Jerry
Formerly HiggsBozon
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,940
vCash: 500
Things I learned from Leafs fans on the main board:

- The Habs are soft
- Clarkson is tougher than anyone on this team not called Parros or Prust (lol)
- Moen can't beat his own grandmother
- Umberger is considered a tough guy after 1 fight in 3 years, but White is a joke

Wow. I guess I won't get back in there. Enough "wisdom" acquired for one night.

Son Oncle Jerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 02:55 AM
  #16
Hackett
BAKAMAN
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,929
vCash: 500
There's plenty of jam in the bottom 6 forwards. Moen, White, Prust, and Parros lead the brigade on that front.

On defense, you got Murray, Emelin, Tinordi (albeit, probably not a full timer this season), and Subban.

If there is any aspect for a lack of "ruggedness" as I like to call it, it would be the top 6 forwards. Gallagher brings that element every night for the top 6, and Pacioretty can be that guy on certain nights, but there's not a whole lot else there. There's also bourque who can be a nasty piece of business, but you'll never know what to expect from him. Briere can be "rugged" in his stickwork, I suppose

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 06:25 AM
  #17
habsfan22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 28
vCash: 500
As much as it would be great to have a bit more ruggedness in the top 6, at least those guys can play a bit bigger now, knowing there is plenty of guys on the bench who can answer the bell for them if need be. I think back to that leafs game when Prust went after (I think) Komarav or Kadri, and then with him off, there was nobody to stand up to Orr and McLaren. Bourque almost got his head taken off, Georges got made to look like a fool and most likely felt like one. This season if Prust, (or anyone) decides to make a statement like that, he doesn't have to worry about leaving his team to the wolves, as MT has the option to put Parros, or even Murray out next shift just in case.

habsfan22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 07:17 AM
  #18
mark24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 777
vCash: 500
I feel our summer moves will allow the team to compete at a better more fearless level. Still probably not a good idea to try and get into a slug fest with the Bruins or Leafs as we still don't have the horses to keep going if it drags on deep into the game.
It will be nice to watch how our players develop their games while actually having a protective eye watching over them every second of every shift.

mark24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 07:31 AM
  #19
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hôlle
Posts: 28,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
There's plenty of jam in the bottom 6 forwards. Moen, White, Prust, and Parros lead the brigade on that front.

On defense, you got Murray, Emelin, Tinordi (albeit, probably not a full timer this season), and Subban.

If there is any aspect for a lack of "ruggedness" as I like to call it, it would be the top 6 forwards. Gallagher brings that element every night for the top 6, and Pacioretty can be that guy on certain nights, but there's not a whole lot else there. There's also bourque who can be a nasty piece of business, but you'll never know what to expect from him. Briere can be "rugged" in his stickwork, I suppose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxi77lWJdaw

MXD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 07:37 AM
  #20
25get
Registered User
 
25get's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,948
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
When MTL had Staubitz they were a different club on the ice. While he was a plug and didn't really contribute much, the fact that he took the pressure of Moen and some of the other guys and was loved in the room they all grew a couple inches and played that much harder.

I think Parros being a respected and well-liked guy, and if he does do his job well it will make the team much better in the sense of compete and ruggedness.

Murray I think will just solidify the 3rd pairing if he can come into camp in shape and ready to go. Add a bit of meat and get Markov off the PK to save his legs a bit. He was awful in that position last year and it really hurt his game down the stretch.
We had 7-12 with Staubitz. He played 15 games with the Ducks last season.

Parros is a better fighter than Staubitz. Still only 5-6 TOI per game.
Murray also and he is a better player and can play 15 minutes per game.

25get is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 07:47 AM
  #21
Craig71
Registered User
 
Craig71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,331
vCash: 500
There was no way that Bergevin watched the same team we did and not realize that we were severly lacking in the toughness area. Yes toughness, that element that all good teams have. I wonder why Bergevin waited till august though to try and adresss it? Was it his choice or was it in response to fan pressure, or was it because Emelins recovery is behind schedule?

Craig71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 08:02 AM
  #22
mark24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
There was no way that Bergevin watched the same team we did and not realize that we were severly lacking in the toughness area. Yes toughness, that element that all good teams have. I wonder why Bergevin waited till august though to try and adresss it? Was it his choice or was it in response to fan pressure, or was it because Emelins recovery is behind schedule?
When you are in a division that has beefed up consistently year after year, it's pretty much a no brainer to follow suit isn't it?
Pretty sure Bergevin is a smart enough hockey guy to realize that this was something he absolutely had to do. Nothing to do with the Emelin injury, nothing to do with fan pressure.
How many times do you think he could stand to see it shown that his team was too small and "soft" to play another full season in the same division as the Leafs,Bruins and Sens without reacting and adjusting the roster to be bigger, tougher and more difficult to play against. Don't forget we are not subtracting skill here, simply adding what we so desperately lacked size and toughness. Only minus is we are sacrificing some speed on the bottom line and lower pairing D

mark24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 08:03 AM
  #23
Ice Poutine
I like thoup-Lindros
 
Ice Poutine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: .
Country: Martinique
Posts: 11,911
vCash: 500
With all this size added i predict now that DD will be our next goon! Book it!

Ice Poutine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 08:07 AM
  #24
habsrule22
Registered User
 
habsrule22's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Powassan, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Things I learned from Leafs fans on the main board:

- The Habs are soft
- Clarkson is tougher than anyone on this team not called Parros or Prust (lol)
- Moen can't beat his own grandmother
- Umberger is considered a tough guy after 1 fight in 3 years, but White is a joke

Wow. I guess I won't get back in there. Enough "wisdom" acquired for one night.
If leaf fan knew anything about hockey they wouldn t be leaf fan. To cheer for a team that hasn t won anything in almost 50 years. You should clue in that they are just losers and move on

habsrule22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-24-2013, 08:10 AM
  #25
SnapVirus
Registered User
 
SnapVirus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mtl., QC.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,182
vCash: 500
The problem is not our bottom 6. The problem is in the top6.

Yes we can match Toronto/Ottawa/Boston's toughness all around the ice.

The problem is that their goon and tall players are also in their top 6. Here we only have Pacioretty who's big enough. Desharnais, Briere, Gionta, Plekachou, Gallagher are still there. But even if Gallagher is short, hes playing big, so I dont mind him at all. But the others are soft as my girlfriend's skin and that hurts.

Even if you have Parros, Prust, Moen playing on your energy lines, you will always have abuse on your best players, because nobody is big and nasty on their lines.

Is it a step in the right direction: Yes. Can we match other rivals intimidation game: No.

SnapVirus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.