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Gionta vs Bergenheim

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Old
09-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  #1
samsagat
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Gionta vs Bergenheim

I know that Gio is actually injured, but when he'll be healty, I would see a trade like:


Gionta


vs


Sean Bergenheim



Yeah I know, like 90% of the trade proposal here, the vast majority of you will say: your trade proposal sucks...

But still, for the fun of it, I posted it...

Mtl need more grit and Florida need a veteran presence that can score and be reliable defensively...

Gionta will earn 5 mil in the next year and then be a UFA and Bergenheim will earn +/- 5 mil total in the next two years...

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Old
09-16-2013, 01:54 PM
  #2
danyhabsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsagat View Post
I know that Gio is actually injured, but when he'll be healty, I would see a trade like:


Gionta


vs


Sean Bergenheim



Yeah I know, like 90% of the trade proposal here, the vast majority of you will say: your trade proposal sucks...

But still, for the fun of it, I posted it...

Mtl need more grit and Florida need a veteran presence that can score and be reliable defensively...

Gionta will earn 5 mil in the next year and then be a UFA and Bergenheim will earn +/- 5 mil total in the next two years...
NTC

from captain of the Montreal Canadiens to a nobody in Florida.

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Old
09-16-2013, 01:58 PM
  #3
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No way gionta can still score 20-30 goal ... Bergenheim never put up more then 29 point !! And he can't even stay healthy ...

That probably one off the worst trade ever !!
Why not fleischman vs moen

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Old
09-16-2013, 02:24 PM
  #4
samsagat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
NTC

from captain of the Montreal Canadiens to a nobody in Florida.
Yeah, you're right about the NTC...

But MAYBE he would accept to wave it if Mtl brass make him understand that with the Habs depth in their offensive squad, Gio would be better off to go to Florida and get good ice time and his regular shift on the PP/PK. So his value in the next UFA market would be higher...

My two cents...


Last edited by samsagat: 09-16-2013 at 03:30 PM.
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Old
09-16-2013, 02:30 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Domino11 View Post
No way gionta can still score 20-30 goal ... Bergenheim never put up more then 29 point !! And he can't even stay healthy ...

That probably one off the worst trade ever !!
Why not fleischman vs moen
Come on !!!

With his size, salary cap and being injury prone himself, Gio don't have much value...

Plus we have too much players of his kind in Mtl, the team NEEDS to get bigger...

Bergenheim is a feisty player, defensively responsible that can score 10-15 goals on a regular basis, the kind of player we terribly need... plus he is an absolute playoff perfomer...

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Old
09-16-2013, 03:06 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by samsagat View Post
Yeah, you're right about the NTC...

But MAYBE he would accept to wave it if Mtl brass would make him understand that with the Habs depth in their offensive squad, Gio would be better off to go to Florida and get good ice time and his regular shift on the PP/PK. So his value in the next UFA market would be higher...

My two cents...
Or maybe Gionta understands the actual reality that he'll get top six minutes in Montreal, plenty of PP time and more likelihood of a chance to play in the playoffs...

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Old
09-16-2013, 03:08 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsagat View Post
Come on !!!

With his size, salary cap and being injury prone himself, Gio don't have much value...

Plus we have too much players of his kind in Mtl, the team NEEDS to get bigger...

Bergenheim is a feisty player, defensively responsible that can score 10-15 goals on a regular basis, the kind of player we terribly need... plus he is an absolute playoff perfomer...
Bergenhiem is gritty, but so is Gionta. And Bergenhiem is smaller than Plekanec, he's not exactly a physical force. He's also been injured for quite a while and could have tough time cracking Montreal's top-9.

Also, Gionta is fiesty, very responsible defensively, is good for at least 15 goals and has a history of showing up in the playoffs.

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Old
09-16-2013, 03:19 PM
  #8
samsagat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
Bergenhiem is gritty, but so is Gionta. And Bergenhiem is smaller than Plekanec, he's not exactly a physical force. He's also been injured for quite a while and could have tough time cracking Montreal's top-9.

Also, Gionta is fiesty, very responsible defensively, is good for at least 15 goals and has a history of showing up in the playoffs.
I see Gionta play 82 games (about 36 games actually) a year and let me tell you something: HE IS NOT FEISTY...

Making fantasy skating in the corners instead of bodychecking opponents is not being feisty in my book...

Gallagher is feisty, even if he's 5'9'', Gionta is trying to avoid contact so he doesn't get injured...

Bergenheim, on the other hand, is 5'11'' 205 pds and does not shy away from the rough stuff... plus he can do the job defensively...

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Old
09-16-2013, 03:26 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
Or maybe Gionta understands the actual reality that he'll get top six minutes in Montreal, plenty of PP time and more likelihood of a chance to play in the playoffs...
If MT do that, the Habs will have a hard time making the playoff...

The young guys needs their playing time to increase, so they can develop properly...

There is no place for Gionta on the Habs line up...

Too many players of his size/style...

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Old
09-16-2013, 03:36 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by samsagat View Post
If MT do that, the Habs will have a hard time making the playoff...

The young guys needs their playing time to increase, so they can develop properly...

There is no place for Gionta on the Habs line up...

Too many players of his size/style...
Last season Gionta had the most powerplay icetime of any forward on the team and the second most icetime overall of any forward on the team.

And the team were divisional champions and 4th in the NHL.

But, sure, some guy on the internet says there's no place on the team for him and they won't make the playoffs if he's in the top six, that must be true.

Again, the problem here is that the rest of us are dealing with actual reality and you are dealing with things that are only true in your head.

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Old
09-16-2013, 04:05 PM
  #11
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As a Panthers fan i wouldn't actually do this.
First of all our cheap owners would never bring on that contract...
Bergenheim is also crucial to the Panthers and plays a really important role.
Last but not least, I'd like to make room for our prospects in the top 6 in the future, to play alongside Fleischmann and Versteeg, instead of having Gionta there.

EDIT: nvm the last point, just realized that he's only got one year left.

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Old
09-16-2013, 04:34 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
Last season Gionta had the most powerplay icetime of any forward on the team and the second most icetime overall of any forward on the team.

And the team were divisional champions and 4th in the NHL.

But, sure, some guy on the internet says there's no place on the team for him and they won't make the playoffs if he's in the top six, that must be true.

Again, the problem here is that the rest of us are dealing with actual reality and you are dealing with things that are only true in your head.
Oh yeah, and how many points did he get on the PP ??

Seven

Take him away from Mtl PP last year and it change everything for sure...

Take him away from Mtl and their team would have been awfull, that's for sure...

Come on, you really think that Gionta is so much valuable to the Habs ??

If it's the case, you're the one dealing with things in your head instead of reality...

Note: Get your facts staight since MaxPac and Plekanec had more PP time than Gionta...


Last edited by samsagat: 09-16-2013 at 05:00 PM.
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Old
09-16-2013, 04:51 PM
  #13
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Anyway, on the HF board, when both sides aren't happy with the trade proposal saying that:

"The player on our team is so much valuable to the team, he is more valuable than the one you're offering"

It means that the trade is more or less 50/50

I've NEVER seen a trade proposal here that was accepted by both sides simultaneously...

Hey guys, we're talking about 3rd lines players here, not superstars...

Gionta, in the last 2 years, have never put up more than 26 pts and was always injured...

He's 5'7'' in a league where every teams want to get bigger and stronger...

In this situation, it's hard to get rid of him and if you succeed to do so, you're happy...Especially with the super small Canadien team...

Bergenheim is a valuable player, even if you look at his offensive stats (offensive stats are not everything in the NHL) and say: well, he isn't as good as Gionta..

But the REALITY is that he brings intangibles that the Habs need and that Gionta doesn't possess...


Last edited by samsagat: 09-16-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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Old
09-16-2013, 04:59 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsagat View Post
Anyway, on the HF board, when both sides aren't happy with the trade proposal saying that:

The player on our team is so much valuable to the team, he is more valuable than the one you're offering

It means that the trade is more or less 50/50

I've NEVER seen a trade proposal here that was accepted by both sides simultaneously...

Hey guys, we're talking about 3rd lines players here, not superstars...

Gionta, in the last 2 years, have never put up more than 26 pts and was always injured...

He's 5'7'' in a league where every teams want to get bigger and stronger...

In this situation, it's hard to get rid of him and if you succeed to do so, you're happy...Especially with the super small Canadien team...

Bergenheim is a valuable player, even if you look at his offensive stats (offensive stats are not everything in the NHL) and say: well, he isn't as good as Gionta..

But the REALITY is that he brings intangibles that the Habs need and that Gionta doesn't possess...
I'm not really a huge fan of either team but just to make things fair in the debate, why did you select the past two seasons?

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
I'm not really a huge fan of either team but just to make things fair in the debate, why did you select the past two seasons?
Because at his age, the last year is the best indication of what the player can bring to the table...

If you go back too far in time, it's not as accurate...

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:09 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by samsagat View Post
Oh yeah, and how many points did he get on the PP ??

Seven

Take him away from Mtl PP last year and it change everything for sure...

Take him away from Mtl and their team would have been awfull, that's for sure...

Come on, you really think that Gionta is so much valuable to the Habs ??

If it's the case, you're the guy dealing with things in your head instead of reality...
Kind of missing the point here.

The point was made that Gionta would not waive his NTC to go to Florida and you countered that "MAYBE he would accept to wave it if Mtl brass would make him understand that with the Habs depth in their offensive squad, Gio would be better off to go to Florida and get good ice time and his regular shift on the PP/PK."

So I showed you actual facts to back up my assertion that Gionta will get plenty of ice time in Montreal and there's no reason for him to go to Florida and no indication that MTL don't see him as a top six player.

Then you came back with more of your opinion that he's not a top six player. It doesn't matter whether you think he's a top six player (although if he wasn't, would kind of beg the question why you think Florida want to give him $5 million...), the question is whether MTL think he's a top six player and it's pretty obvious they do.

So they won't be 'persuading' him to waive his NTC and he won't be doing it.

But we'll test your arguments anyway. So, persuade me. If Gionta's as rubbish as you say whilst playing on a top four team in the league getting more PP time than any other forward, why exactly would Florida want to be paying $5 million dollars for him to play for them?

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:14 PM
  #17
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Totally not an option for the Habs. Gionta is 20-30 goals when healthy, and the captain of the team. There's nothing at all wrong with his level of play, he's a solid guy who will play and contribute in all situations, and there's just no motivation whatsoever for the Habs to trade him right now. Bergenheim was trending as a nice scrappy depth player before his injury, but his contract is no bargain, and there's just no way the Habs are going to trade their captain for him. This proposal is a total non-starter from the Habs' POV.

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09-16-2013, 05:16 PM
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If Gionta, who is on the last year of his contract doesn't want to waive his NTC to go to a team that wants him and can use his veteran leadership, that would be silly on his part. He should be thinking about his future instead of a 1 in a 100 chance of winning the cup in Montréal.

I'd make that trade and not think about it.

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If Gionta, who is on the last year of his contract doesn't want to waive his NTC to go to a team that wants him and can use his veteran leadership, that would be silly on his part.
He's already on a team that wants him and can use his veteran leadership

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:23 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
I'm not really a huge fan of either team but just to make things fair in the debate, why did you select the past two seasons?
Because he is cherry picking stats.

Last year was a shorten season, and the year before Gionta got injuried for over half the season.

During his time in Mtl Gionta has played about 250 games, and I believe has scored 92 goals, regular season and playoff games. Aside from a few freak injuries, he has been heathly, and while he is out now, he should be ready for the start of the year.

and while he might not have alot left in the tank, he is still good for 25-27 goals.

And while Gionta isn't big, I don't see how somehow who has watched him play can say Gionta doesn't play a gritter game. He is does very well along the boards and wins a ton of puck battles, and is good in his own zone.

Better yet, Mtl need is guys that go to net, I looked at all of Gionta 14 goals from this past year, 11 came from him being around the goalie crease. Thats large perfectange of his goals, and thats what excatly mtl needs more of.

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:25 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
Kind of missing the point here.

The point was made that Gionta would not waive his NTC to go to Florida and you countered that "MAYBE he would accept to wave it if Mtl brass would make him understand that with the Habs depth in their offensive squad, Gio would be better off to go to Florida and get good ice time and his regular shift on the PP/PK."

So I showed you actual facts to back up my assertion that Gionta will get plenty of ice time in Montreal and there's no reason for him to go to Florida and no indication that MTL don't see him as a top six player.

Then you came back with more of your opinion that he's not a top six player. It doesn't matter whether you think he's a top six player (although if he wasn't, would kind of beg the question why you think Florida want to give him $5 million...), the question is whether MTL think he's a top six player and it's pretty obvious they do.

So they won't be 'persuading' him to waive his NTC and he won't be doing it.

But we'll test your arguments anyway. So, persuade me. If Gionta's as rubbish as you say whilst playing on a top four team in the league getting more PP time than any other forward, why exactly would Florida want to be paying $5 million dollars for him to play for them?

OK, your argument is good...

But he's not getting any younger and I would be very surprised if his playing time remain stable (compared to last year) with Eller, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Brière and even MaxPac getting their playing time increased significantly...

All these young players (except for Brière ) will eat Gionta playing time for sure since the later is not as effective as he was in the past...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it...

As for why Florida would want him ??

Because they lack fire power in their top-6 and a guy that won a Stanley Cup is always good to have in such a yound and unexperienced team... AND he would be playing with his buddy Gomez

Plus they have plenty of young players to replace Bergenheim in their bottom-6...

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:26 PM
  #22
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Bergs is injured still

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:29 PM
  #23
samsagat
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Because he is cherry picking stats.

Last year was a shorten season, and the year before Gionta got injuried for over half the season.

During his time in Mtl Gionta has played about 250 games, and I believe has scored 92 goals, regular season and playoff games. Aside from a few freak injuries, he has been heathly, and while he is out now, he should be ready for the start of the year.

and while he might not have alot left in the tank, he is still good for 25-27 goals.

And while Gionta isn't big, I don't see how somehow who has watched him play can say Gionta doesn't play a gritter game. He is does very well along the boards and wins a ton of puck battles, and is good in his own zone.

Better yet, Mtl need is guys that go to net, I looked at all of Gionta 14 goals from this past year, 11 came from him being around the goalie crease. Thats large perfectange of his goals, and thats what excatly mtl needs more of.

Come on... Gionta was injured in the playoff... after 48 games... even if the season would have been complete, he wouldn't have make it...

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:32 PM
  #24
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Can Habs fans stop putting Gionta in trade proposals? He's not going anywhere.

1. He's the captain
2. He has a full NTC

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Old
09-16-2013, 05:33 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
I'm not really a huge fan of either team but just to make things fair in the debate, why did you select the past two seasons?
Especially when they are two seasons when the 'always injured' Gionta has played 25% more games than Bergenheim has

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