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Old
09-12-2013, 06:12 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
"Defence is superb" never seen any indication of that so far. -6 in 4GP.
Well, all the video is up on the internet; if you want to point out all the mistakes he's making, fill your boots.

I thought his coverage - for a young center - was outstanding, and, as Todd Nelson points out, he's very good at coming back deep and supporting the puck. Our D looked a lot better once he was converted to center in the 2nd game.

He played most of the tournament with Miller and Fyten, and in front of goaltending with a ~0.820 save percentage, and you think Gagner had it tough playing with Omark?

It does matter who you play with, or is Gagner the only player who is entitled to make that case?


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09-12-2013, 06:13 PM
  #302
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I would encourage people to ignore your rantings on Roy. After all, you trashed him throughout the Young Stars tournament, but Hockey Canada, who was watching the same games you were, added him to their list of prospects for the Canadian Junior team, along with Nurse.

His shot and finish aren't that great - we all saw that - but his playmaking, puckhandling, skating, and defence are superb, and if he makes the Canadian Junior team, it will be on that basis (a checking or 2 way center).
Yeah his Anti-Roy rantings are borderline creepy. I'll go with the pundits on this one and agree Roy was the most impressive of the young forwards along with JK of course. His speed and 2 way play are exactly what we need. We have finishers. We need players in the bottom 6.

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09-12-2013, 06:14 PM
  #303
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09-12-2013, 06:15 PM
  #304
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iI'm slightly perplexed to why Keith Acton would handle the PP duties. We've had a Top-5 PP the last two years and would figure that we'd want continuity and a couch familiar with the system utilized to run it. Why fix something that isn't broken.

Following the same vein, I want to see Smyth back on the PP in front of the net. I think he can contribute to this team in some areas, but wouldn't be enthused if lots of ES minutes with Hall was one of them.

I wish we had a primer on the other lines with the lesser lights. Where was Eager, Omark, Pitlick, Jones, Chase, etc. lining up with? The only one I know of is Bilcke - Martindale - Ewanyk.

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09-12-2013, 06:19 PM
  #305
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Wasnt the pp krugers baby?

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09-12-2013, 06:20 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Conkanen View Post
Yeah his Anti-Roy rantings are borderline creepy. I'll go with the pundits on this one and agree Roy was the most impressive of the young forwards along with JK of course. His speed and 2 way play are exactly what we need. We have finishers. We need players in the bottom 6.
A halfpint playing bottom 6 in the NHL? you gotta be kidding me. This is an OHL player at best.

You actually think is going to be a future Edmonton Oiler? lol. The bets start here.


This guy is miles and miles away. One of the worst players I saw at camp today.

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09-12-2013, 06:21 PM
  #307
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Dan Tencer
Dallas Eakins confirms that Oilers are following concussion protocol with Oscar Klefbom after he got elbowed in head on Tuesday night. Hopefully the concussion for Klefbom is as "mild" as possible. Tough start after missing most of last year with shoulder injury. It was Levko Koper of the Golden Bears who elbowed Klefbom. Reminds me of Tulipov on Eager a couple years ago. Was a big setback for Ben...
Sonuva...

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09-12-2013, 06:24 PM
  #308
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I'm slightly perplexed to why Keith Acton would handle the PP duties. We've had a Top-5 PP the last two years and would figure that we'd want continuity and a couch familiar with the system utilized to run it. Why fix something that isn't broken.
They changed up the PP last season and they still had a bunch of success, so I'm guessing they think that the success had more to do with personnel than system.

You never know too. Acton could be running the same set-up as last season or the RNH ran Corey Power Potter Play set-up from 11/12 too.

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09-12-2013, 06:24 PM
  #309
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Well, all the video is up on the internet; if you want to point out all the mistakes he's making, fill your boots.

I thought his coverage - for a young center - was outstanding, and, as Todd Nelson points out, he's very good at coming back deep and supporting the puck. Our D looked a lot better once he was converted to center in the 2nd game.

He played most of the tournament with Miller and Fyten, and in front of goaltending with a ~0.820 save percentage, and you think Gagner had it tough playing with Omark?

It does matter who you play with, or is Gagner the only player who is entitled to make that case?
So now Miller and Fyten are clearly weaksauce? I thought Miller was one of the touted Oiler prospects and with some expected offensive contribution expected.

But now Miller is a horrible player for Roy to be *saddled* with? Explain that logic. Maybe Roy just didn't get anything at all done, yeah, could be that.

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09-12-2013, 06:33 PM
  #310
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A halfpint playing bottom 6 in the NHL? you gotta be kidding me. This is an OHL player at best.

You actually think is going to be a future Edmonton Oiler? lol. The bets start here.


This guy is miles and miles away. One of the worst players I saw at camp today.
By what metric is a 6 ft tall 18 year old a half pint? And how much did you weigh at age 18? The size argument is silly at this point imo. Talk to me in 4 years on that one.

Who says he's going to be an Oiler? We are saying his skills are exactly what we need on the big club. You are the one throwing the baby out with the bath water based on a ridiculously small sample size of converting shots/scoring chances. And I guess the 3 preseason goals in 2 QMJHL exhibition games were fluke too?

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09-12-2013, 06:33 PM
  #311
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I mean... Ryan Smyth is a bad hockey player at the NHL level. There's no getting around it, he can't skate and he's a dumb as a box of rocks. He can't pass, he has no actual puck retreival skill and he took an absurd amount of bad penalties - in the softest, most limited minutes.

He's not a veteran in any reliable sense. He's not a third liner in any reliable sense. If you think Smyth should play with Hall, you have no business being involved with the Oilers team IMO.
Intersting.... so if that's your opinion, what did you think of Lander, Hartikainen, Belanger, Smithson.... because they all played worse than Smyth. At least Smyth had the excuse that he was playing out of position at centre.

I'm not suggesting that Smyth was a good hockey player last year - but others here have said that he was the Worst Oilers player last year which was entirely untrue. I do know that many Oiler fans like looking for a scapegoat - every year.

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09-12-2013, 06:35 PM
  #312
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Sonuva...
Sucks for Klefbom, but he wasn't going to be making the team out of camp anyway. He'll recover, build his confidence/ability in OKC and join the team next year, most likely. He isn't needed as a #5/6 right now and clearly needs more time before he becomes top 4.

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09-12-2013, 06:37 PM
  #313
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By what metric is a 6 ft tall 18 year old a half pint? And how much did you weigh at age 18? The size argument is silly at this point imo. Talk to me in 4 years on that one.

Who says he's going to be an Oiler? We are saying his skills are exactly what we need on the big club. You are the one throwing the baby out with the bath water based on a ridiculously small sample size of converting shots/scoring chances. And I guess the 3 preseason goals in 2 QMJHL exhibition games were fluke too?
Not sure how to say this, theres no effing way Marco Roy is 6ft. looks like the smallest guy out there with his stature. Roy was standing right next to me on skates and he doesn't look taller. lol. Roy makes Omark look big.

He's 19 in a few weeks and weighs 170lbs. Theres going to have to be some beefing up.

Thing is, if you don't have the talent to play topsix in the NHL, and Marco doesn't, you end up in a support role.

Plenty of small players can be effective in topsix in NHL. But to be effective checking center or winger you should have more lbs on you.


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09-12-2013, 06:42 PM
  #314
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I have to agree with you. Seems his issues last year had more to do with conditioning than an actual loss of skill. Plus, this idea that Ryan smyth is a bad passer with no hockey IQ, is ridiculous. He is and always has been an extremely underrated playmaker, and his ability around the net is a natural talent that has everything to do with being hockey smart, reading the play, reading rebounds, anticipating goalie movements ect. Ill agree he's lost a step, but he's not as bad as last season would indicate, and as replacement said, with an entire offseason to train, hopefully we see an improved smyth this year.
Yeah, certainly Smyth is talented and an underrated setup guy. I don't think we can take too much from last season. We'll see what Smyth does with his advanced age with adequate preparation. Theres a lot of miles on Smyth with the style of play and the pounding he's taken. People have to remember a lot of players that have played Smyths role that are Smyths medium size don't last forever. Craig Simpson for instance being long retired by now.

When people say Smyth is brutal, can't skate, etc, I wonder how much thought is given to how much damage his body has taken. He's a warrior and will keep coming back for more. its up to the team to tell him when its enough.

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09-12-2013, 06:49 PM
  #315
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Replacement is entitled to his opinions on Roy even if he's the only person with eyeballs who holds them.

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09-12-2013, 06:50 PM
  #316
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Not sure how to say this, theres no effing way Marco Roy is 6ft. looks like the smallest guy out there with his stature. Roy was standing right next to me on skates and he doesn't look taller. lol. Roy makes Omark look big.

He's 19 in a few weeks and weighs 170lbs. Theres going to have to be some beefing up.

Thing is, if you don't have the talent to play topsix in the NHL, and Marco doesn't, you end up in a support role.

Plenty of small players can be effective in topsix in NHL. But to be effective checking center or winger you should have more lbs on you.

Again:

1. He is listed anywhere from 5'11 to just over 6'...and isn't finished growing.
2. The kid will put on weight. Have you seen pictures of a young Boyd Gordon for example?
3. There are a ton of effective bottom 6 checking centers in the NHL who are 5'11ish and like I said we don't need him to be a Top 6 guy. His skill set would be awesome in the bottom 6.

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09-12-2013, 06:55 PM
  #317
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Again:

1. He is listed anywhere from 5'11 to just over 6'...and isn't finished growing.
2. The kid will put on weight. Have you seen pictures of a young Boyd Gordon for example?
3. There are a ton of effective bottom 6 checking centers in the NHL who are 5'11ish and like I said we don't need him to be a Top 6 guy. His skill set would be awesome in the bottom 6.
WE'll see. Probably some of my reaction or a large part of it is so many people talking up how good this player is. Just not seeing it yet. Hopefully.

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09-12-2013, 06:55 PM
  #318
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Heres a crazy idea, how about we completely ignore size and weight and if they can play hockey without being hit in such a way that it murders them, then they are better than a guy with size that can't do anything.

I honestly don't see the fascination that every team must have a big and bulky bottom 6 to be good. If you can avoid getting hit and work your way around the oppositions 3/4th big guys, then isn't it better for the team as you have a much higher chance at scoring?

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09-12-2013, 06:59 PM
  #319
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I have to agree with you. Seems his issues last year had more to do with conditioning than an actual loss of skill. Plus, this idea that Ryan smyth is a bad passer with no hockey IQ, is ridiculous. He is and always has been an extremely underrated playmaker, and his ability around the net is a natural talent that has everything to do with being hockey smart, reading the play, reading rebounds, anticipating goalie movements ect. Ill agree he's lost a step, but he's not as bad as last season would indicate, and as replacement said, with an entire offseason to train, hopefully we see an improved smyth this year.
He was god awful the last 50 games of the previous season as well so he might very well be as bad as last season would indicate.
He is now yet another year older so i don't see him improving anytime soon.
Smyth reminds me of Cleary a bit. A guy who will be awful in most games but could very well find that extra gear in meaningful games. I think a part of the reason for his struggles is that he was disheartened with all the losing so he could be a useful player if the team is in the playoff hunt.

In any event, i really dislike the idea of mixing a veteran with youth and a grinder with skilled guys in the attempt to create more balance. That's the same crap that the previous coaches did at various points (mainly Renney and Quinn) and it led to awful results.
Smyth and Gordon should be nowhere near the top 6. Gordon needs to focus on shutting down the opposition and i'd rather not see these grinders slow down the skilled guys even though they would supply a defensive conscious.

Roll with 2 scoring lines, a shutdown line and whatever mess the 4th line is made up of. It's far from perfect but it's the best that the Oilers can do with the personnel they have. They don't have a Bickell or a Kulemin who can play anywhere in the top 9.

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09-12-2013, 07:02 PM
  #320
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Heres a crazy idea, how about we completely ignore size and weight and if they can play hockey without being hit in such a way that it murders them, then they are better than a guy with size that can't do anything.

I honestly don't see the fascination that every team must have a big and bulky bottom 6 to be good. If you can avoid getting hit and work your way around the oppositions 3/4th big guys, then isn't it better for the team as you have a much higher chance at scoring?
If Roy did much of anything this convo wouldn't be taking place. All I saw was wasted shots by somebody with a very mediocre shot(why is he taking so many with virtually zero finish) and dishing some passes that went nowhere. Roy wasn't effective, didn't produce, didn't get it done.

Limited sample but its time to impress.

tbh none of the prospects made much of an impression. Chase was probably the best forward prospect.

All this means is its back to the drawing board and anothr year to try to put it together. Roy is at least young. Team isn't very impressed with what the prospects have shown.

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09-12-2013, 07:03 PM
  #321
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WE'll see. Probably some of my reaction or a large part of it is so many people talking up how good this player is. Just not seeing it yet. Hopefully.
If we're talking about placing bets then you have the best odds of winning the money. The chances of a 2nd rounder making the NHL are incredibly low no matter how you look at it.

It's just tough when 99% of us see some positive things happening with him, and then you come along and slag the crap out of Roy every chance you can.

Is it to try and be the lone voice in the wilderness? Maybe. Maybe there is a desire to try and overcompensate for the flood of people who are excited about what they saw in the young guy - a young guy who wasn't drafted #1 overall for a change.

Yeah ... long odds for Roy, and you've made some good points as to why you don't agree. Fair enough. Maybe it would be nice if you didn't have to point out your contrarian view any time a single person has something good to say about the guy though, that's all.

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09-12-2013, 07:03 PM
  #322
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... theres no effing way Marco Roy is 6ft. looks like the smallest guy out there with his stature ...
Yet teammate Clapperton is listed as 5'10". Junior teams certainly may exaggerate height and weight.



So here he is by Stu McGregor. Roy has a couple of inches on him.



For reference, here is Stu by Yakupov one year earlier:



Based on the photos, I would say Roy is slightly taller than the 5'11" Yakupov.

Again, I encourage people to reject your observations about Roy.

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09-12-2013, 07:03 PM
  #323
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A halfpint playing bottom 6 in the NHL? you gotta be kidding me. This is an OHL player at best.

You actually think is going to be a future Edmonton Oiler? lol. The bets start here.


This guy is miles and miles away. One of the worst players I saw at camp today.
I agree with the others. Your obsession with knocking down this player is odd to say the least.
I don't think he has been as great as some posters think he has been but your constant vitrol towards this kid is completely unfair and screams of some ridiculous agenda just to be a contrarian.

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09-12-2013, 07:06 PM
  #324
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Yet teammate Clapperton is listed as 5'10". Junior teams certainly may exaggerate height and weight.



So here he is by Stu McGregor. Roy has a couple of inches on him.



For reference, here is Stu by Yakupov one year earlier:



Based on the photos, I would say Roy is slightly taller than the 5'11" Yakupov.

Again, I encourage people to reject your observations about Roy.
This is what I like. Documentation and effort instead of blind accusations. Solid work with the photos.

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09-12-2013, 07:08 PM
  #325
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One thing that might be worth noting was Smyth's shooting percentage of 2.9% was well below his career average. The only other time he was below even 8% was his rookie year...also a lockout year.

With a normal SH%, or even the 9.8% he put up the year before, he's scoring at a 32 point pace over a full year. For a guy who played half the year out of position and on the 4th line with next to no powerplay time (10th among forwards on the team), 32 points outscores most of the league's bottom 6 forwards. Not many guys who spend the bulk of their icetime with Petrell and Brown are going to do any better.

Yes, Smyth is slow, but he's always been slow. Low hockey IQ? Please.

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