HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Major NHL reorg; increase in revenue, international events planned (UPD: Post 38)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-01-2013, 08:07 PM
  #101
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 45,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Did it. Not a single shred of actual evidence that what you said is true.

Edit: I found the article I think you're referring to. Basically, it was the VP of the IIHF speculating about what might happen, but admitting he doesn't know for sure. Some evidence there.
It was mentioned in the Finnish press, the plans were outlined by IIHF VP Kummola. The European Champions Cup plans have also been outlined in principal by him (though he is not involved in planning), that is set to start next year with 4-8 KHL teams involved half of them being non-Russian teams. Bringing back the Victoria Cup with the SC champion taking part was also mentioned. Since the last time the Victoria Cup was held, it was during pre-season, so logic dictates it would be held then again.

Jussi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-01-2013, 10:57 PM
  #102
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,938
vCash: 500
I think a Champions League for hockey is a "great idea" that would have massive problems gaining traction.

You simply can't have a disparity in the games played. As someone correctly pointed out, it works in soccer because Champions League essentially IS the playoffs.

I think there's one way it works: Every team in the top major leagues in the world has to play the same amount of games, and it has to be a small number.

That means you'd need multiple levels; like how UEFA has Champions League AND Europa.

Let's say you did six different 32-team tournaments, with consolation rounds so everyone plays exactly five games.

That's 192 teams. The entire NHL, KHL, SEL, SM-Liiga, Czech-Extra, Slovak-Extra, NLA, DEL is 130 teams. Add 62 more teams who are among the best of their lesser leagues.

You use some formula for the major leagues to divide up their teams into tiers (Someone who knows world hockey better than I do could probably figure out a way to award the bids correctly, so that you don't have the #30 NHL team pummeling the champions of far inferior leagues. I'm relatively clueless as it comes to foreign pro hockey).

After the first year, you have the winner of Champions League getting an auto bid to defend their title, and the champions of the other tournaments automatically get to GO UP.



Just my crazy two cents.

KevFu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 07:49 AM
  #103
alkurtz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 896
vCash: 500
Hard to envision a world twenty, thirty, or forty years from now where there is not more interaction between NHL teams and teams in Europe.

Seems like the logical progression of an international sport in an increasingly globalized world.

Back in 1965 if you would have told someone that the 6 team NHL, with no teams west of Chicago or south of New York City would one day be a coast-to-coast league with teams in Florida, California, Texas, and Arizona, they would have been incredulous and thought you were joking.

By the middle of the 21st Century people might look back at the 30 team NHL of 2013 and think of it as the "old days."

Nothing will replace winning the Stanley Cup. But just as teams like Man U, Man City, and Chelsea rejoice when they win the Premier League championship, everyone understands that there is another level of competition that, if it is not thought of as superior, is at least thought of as equal in importance.

This will be a slow process starting with baby steps that have already in some sense begun. Certainly there will be fits and starts, setbacks and leaps ahead. But to think it won't happen is akin to those who thought, circa 1965, the hockey would always be a six team sport confined to Montreal, Toronto, Boston, NY, Chicago, and Detroit.

alkurtz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 08:35 AM
  #104
TrillMike
Registered User
 
TrillMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Sigh. I hate seeing NHL players and teams wasting time on this international crap.
Me too.

TrillMike is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 09:32 AM
  #105
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,183
vCash: 500
just bring back the Victoria Cup. Simples.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 10:14 AM
  #106
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,342
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
just bring back the Victoria Cup. Simples.
It really is, which is why the NHL will likely go its own route since the Victoria Cup wasn't fully on their terms or fully their idea.

cutchemist42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 10:22 AM
  #107
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,172
vCash: 500
Here's my problem with the Victoria Cup. Will it be something taken seriously, by both the NHL fans and the players, if this kind of thing takes place during the pre-season? If the NHL wants to maximize the revenue from something like this, it needs to more than just part of the tune-up process for the NHL team or teams involved.

This is why I like the idea of a during-the-season format that includes games at home against the other competitors. The Victoria Cup would be a half-hearted effort on the part of the NHL.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:06 AM
  #108
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,183
vCash: 500
play the Victoria Cup instead of the All Star Game, simples again.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 12:15 PM
  #109
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,342
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Here's my problem with the Victoria Cup. Will it be something taken seriously, by both the NHL fans and the players, if this kind of thing takes place during the pre-season? If the NHL wants to maximize the revenue from something like this, it needs to more than just part of the tune-up process for the NHL team or teams involved.

This is why I like the idea of a during-the-season format that includes games at home against the other competitors. The Victoria Cup would be a half-hearted effort on the part of the NHL.
If this is the viewpoint, how then does the NHL expect people to take a pre-season "World Cup" seriously?Atleast with baseball's WBC, different countries have different playing seasons but no one is ready for hockey at that point.

cutchemist42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 01:44 PM
  #110
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
If this is the viewpoint, how then does the NHL expect people to take a pre-season "World Cup" seriously?Atleast with baseball's WBC, different countries have different playing seasons but no one is ready for hockey at that point.
People aren't already predisposed to view World Cup play the same way they are towards pre-season hockey that NHL teams play. It's not about reality so much as it's about perception.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 01:45 PM
  #111
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
play the Victoria Cup instead of the All Star Game, simples again.
Terrible idea.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 02:58 PM
  #112
DowntownBooster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
I'm wondering though, would all the matches be held in the same city / area or would every team get a chance to play at home? I'm sure the NHL could make some money by letting cities bid on the rights to hosting this, and I'm pretty sure the first one would be held in either Montreal or Quebec City, following a bidding war.
It may be a better idea for it to be held in Toronto as it is Canada's flagship city.

DowntownBooster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 03:15 PM
  #113
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,183
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Terrible idea.
why?

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 04:34 PM
  #114
Pilky01
@JamesD_TO
 
Pilky01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,170
vCash: 500
I love the idea of a Champions League, but I doubt it would/could ever be done properly. To integrate meaningful European competition would take a fundamental restructuring of the North American calender. I just dont see that happening.

But I think doing more 'one-off' type events would still be amazing. More pre/early season trips to Europe, bring back the Victoria Cup, have Euro teams come here mid-season (like the old Russians playing Montreal and Philly), send an NHL team to the Spengler Cup. There is tons of stuff the NHL could be doing to generate revenue through IIHF integration. Hopefully this time it is more than just talk.

And I absolutely believe a World Cup, done right, would be a tremendous success.

Whether the league continues going to the Olympics or not, there needs to be a World Cup every four years, held in February, just like the Olympics. They have already integrated the February break into every fourth season, why not take it one step further?

So long as the World Cup shares its time equally between Europe and North America, and organizes itself well in advance (basically the exact thing the IOC or FIFA does, well....minus Qatar, but..lol), it will establish itself in no time. And it gives the NHL and the IIHF the opportunity to stage a big time, top teir, money generating competition in contries and cities that make the most sense for them (as opposed to making sense for the IOC).

How often does Sweden, or Finland, or Russia, or almost anyone get the chance to see their absolute best possible national side play a meaningful game on home ice? Well unless you have big mountains for ski jumping and a whole lot of sway with the IOC, that is basically never going to happen (or at best, every 20 some odd years).

A world cup lets the IIHF and the NHL and all the federations plan a perfect tournament for themselves! Nearly every country would be able to play at least one truly 'home game', with their absolute best players, in front of their home crowd, every four years!

I dont know how anybody can be opposed to that.

Pilky01 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 05:07 PM
  #115
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
why?
Because the all-star game is a league-wide showcase and takes place in North America as a very important event for schmoozing corporate sponsors. The Victoria Cup would be one team and typically would take place overseas

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 06:59 PM
  #116
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,183
vCash: 500
Yeah, the sponsors would hate biannual trips to be schmoozed in Europe

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 08:54 PM
  #117
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,172
vCash: 500
I'm not sure they'd make the trip. Besides, it doesn't address that the ASG is a league wide event.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 10:15 PM
  #118
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,938
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Here's my problem with the Victoria Cup. Will it be something taken seriously, by both the NHL fans and the players, if this kind of thing takes place during the pre-season? If the NHL wants to maximize the revenue from something like this, it needs to more than just part of the tune-up process for the NHL team or teams involved.

This is why I like the idea of a during-the-season format that includes games at home against the other competitors. The Victoria Cup would be a half-hearted effort on the part of the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
I love the idea of a Champions League, but I doubt it would/could ever be done properly. To integrate meaningful European competition would take a fundamental restructuring of the North American calender. I just dont see that happening.
I think that's why my idea of multiple "Champions League" tournaments (32 teams, with consolation rounds so everyone plays five games) could work...

because if all the teams in the NHL (and KHL, and other big league's teams) are playing the exact same number of games, it can serve as the kickoff of the season. You shrink to a smaller preseason (two games in the states), then the five games in your tournament.

Yes, the NHL teams will probably be using it as tune up with rosters mixed of vets and prospects, but that can level the playing field with the rest of the world (because let's be honest, if the NATIONAL TEAM of a country like Switzerland only had three NHL guys on it, how's their best professional team gonna do vs an NHL team?)

You have the "league" serve as the host. So, for the Champions League in year one, you send the NHL Conference Finalists (BOS, PIT, CHI, LA) with BOS and CHI as primary hosts, with rinks near them used so you can play five games in two weeks and the travel is manageable.

But at the same time, teams 5-8 in the NHL are going to Russia for the second tier league tournament, teams 9-14 are going to Finland for the third tier league tournament, teams 15-20 are going to Germany, teams 21-26 are going somewhere to the fifth tier and teams 27-30 are going somewhere else (This also might help the NHL with "draft tanking," since the last day of the regular season might determine who's going to Germany and who's going to Kazakhstan for preseason).

KevFu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 06:57 PM
  #119
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,295
vCash: 500
i don't see the players signing up for this unless they're well compensated, or ideally we shorten the regular season. 82 games is just way way to much

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 03:29 PM
  #120
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 56,935
vCash: 500
From 10/5 CBC Hotstove:

World Cup planned for 2015 (no one wants to go up against 2016 Summer Olympics). TV rights will be out for bids ($$ split between NHL and NHLPA).

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...914207?cmp=rss

Video of 10/5 Hotstove

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 04:59 PM
  #121
Jussi
No strings on me
 
Jussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Finland
Posts: 45,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
From 10/5 CBC Hotstove:

World Cup planned for 2015 (no one wants to go up against 2016 Summer Olympics). TV rights will be out for bids ($$ split between NHL and NHLPA).
Can't see the incentive for Europeans to take part in the tournament then. Russians especially won't even get their ***** of the couch and if KHL separates from Russian federation and IIHF, I can't see them having a break for this tournament

Jussi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 05:06 PM
  #122
cutchemist42
Registered User
 
cutchemist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,342
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
From 10/5 CBC Hotstove:

World Cup planned for 2015 (no one wants to go up against 2016 Summer Olympics). TV rights will be out for bids ($$ split between NHL and NHLPA).
So they are basically doing what they've done in the past? Yeah I think we're just heading towards another NHL show type of World Cup sadly...

cutchemist42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 07:51 PM
  #123
CoolForumNamePending
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,134
vCash: 500
I dunno... It sounds like the soul motivation for holding the tournament is to help the NHL reach its goal of increasing revenue by a billion dollars within the next three years. Obviously nothing wrong with the NHL tyring to make money and if they do manage to make an extra billion that's great for them but it's beginning to sound like we are going to be getting the same ol' WCup and IMHO that's too bad. I am sure the event will have its moments but at the end of the day it is going to be another flawed internation tournament and everyone knows hockey already has plenty of those.

I couple of things I am wondering about though...

Sounds like the tournament is going to be held in its 'traditional' pre-season time slot. With the insurance issues how is this going to work? Will the national federations be able to afford to have actual training camps or are the players going be leaving their summer cottages on a Thursday and playing WCup games on the Friday?

If all of the profit is going to the NHL and PA are the national federation and other leagues even going to be interested? As it stands now there are only 4 nations (Can, Cze, Swe, USA) that can field their strongest team, or at least something close to it, by only using players with NHL contracts. The tournament could overlap with the start of most European leagues. Are those clubs and leagues going to be willing to release players for a unilateral NHL tournament?

CoolForumNamePending is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 08:31 PM
  #124
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 29,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending View Post
I dunno... It sounds like the soul motivation for holding the tournament is to help the NHL reach its goal of increasing revenue by a billion dollars within the next three years. Obviously nothing wrong with the NHL tyring to make money and if they do manage to make an extra billion that's great for them but it's beginning to sound like we are going to be getting the same ol' WCup and IMHO that's too bad. I am sure the event will have its moments but at the end of the day it is going to be another flawed internation tournament and everyone knows hockey already has plenty of those.

I couple of things I am wondering about though...

Sounds like the tournament is going to be held in its 'traditional' pre-season time slot. With the insurance issues how is this going to work? Will the national federations be able to afford to have actual training camps or are the players going be leaving their summer cottages on a Thursday and playing WCup games on the Friday?

If all of the profit is going to the NHL and PA are the national federation and other leagues even going to be interested? As it stands now there are only 4 nations (Can, Cze, Swe, USA) that can field their strongest team, or at least something close to it, by only using players with NHL contracts. The tournament could overlap with the start of most European leagues. Are those clubs and leagues going to be willing to release players for a unilateral NHL tournament?

All very good points. It seems like a money grab, plain and simple. It's pretty hard to keep fans interested for 82 regular season games, some pre-season games and the long playoffs. They're sprucing things up with some outdoor games. Then this?

Seems like overkill, to be honest. Not really a fan of the outside-the-league stuff. I don't even like the Olympics.

Fugu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-06-2013, 08:50 PM
  #125
KBA4life
Registered User
 
KBA4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 728
vCash: 500
As a soccer junkie, the idea of a hockey champions league makes me salivate.

KBA4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.