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Eller/Desharnais Idea

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Old
07-22-2014, 11:00 AM
  #1
pcamp
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Eller/Desharnais Idea

Well first of all , people that love Eller will say that Eller doesn't get time with good wingers and that is the reason why he doesn't produce and that he is way better defensively than Desharnais and that having him on the first line would make our first two lines better defensively. I agree with this.

Then, people who love Desharnais will say that Desharnais is a better point producer than Eller and has a playmaking that Eller doesn't and that Pacioretty is better with Desharnais. I also agree with this.

What I(soon to replace Therrien) propose is that Eller plays on the first line with Desharnais and Pacioretty. Desharnais's line is always being reprimanded that it isn't good enough defensively and on the forecheck/cycle and I think that this new line's blend of skills would serve them better than they are right now. Possible lineup:

Pacioretty-Eller-Desharnais
Sekac-Plekanec-Gallagher
Bourque-Galchenyuk-Parenteau

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07-22-2014, 11:01 AM
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The team is catered to Desharnais' needs. He'll never be tried at wing and will play with Patches until one of them dies.

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07-22-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamp View Post
Well first of all , people that love Eller will say that Eller doesn't get time with good wingers and that is the reason why he doesn't produce and that he is way better defensively than Desharnais and that having him on the first line would make our first two lines better defensively. I agree with this.

Then, people who love Desharnais will say that Desharnais is a better point producer than Eller and has a playmaking that Eller doesn't and that Pacioretty is better with Desharnais. I also agree with this.

What I(soon to replace Therrien) propose is that Eller plays on the first line with Desharnais and Pacioretty. Desharnais's line is always being reprimanded that it isn't good enough defensively and on the forecheck/cycle and I think that this new line's blend of skills would serve them better than they are right now. Possible lineup:

Pacioretty-Eller-Desharnais
Sekac-Plekanec-Gallagher
Bourque-Galchenyuk-Parenteau
I just don't see DD being capable on the right. On the left, sure, ok. But that creates a different issue with your plan

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07-22-2014, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
I just don't see DD being capable on the right. On the left, sure, ok. But that creates a different issue with your plan
Then move Pacioretty to the right... He did play there before if I remember correctly.

EDIT: And why do you think Desharnais couldn't play right side?

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07-22-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by pcamp View Post
Well first of all , people that love Eller will say that Eller doesn't get time with good wingers and that is the reason why he doesn't produce and that he is way better defensively than Desharnais and that having him on the first line would make our first two lines better defensively. I agree with this.

Then, people who love Desharnais will say that Desharnais is a better point producer than Eller and has a playmaking that Eller doesn't and that Pacioretty is better with Desharnais. I also agree with this.

What I(soon to replace Therrien) propose is that Eller plays on the first line with Desharnais and Pacioretty. Desharnais's line is always being reprimanded that it isn't good enough defensively and on the forecheck/cycle and I think that this new line's blend of skills would serve them better than they are right now. Possible lineup:

Pacioretty-Eller-Desharnais
Sekac-Plekanec-Gallagher
Bourque-Galchenyuk-Parenteau
Eller should be a center and Desharnais should be dealt. Putting DD on the wing is only going to hold back both players.

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07-22-2014, 11:17 AM
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Honestly, I don't see Eller ever being a top line center driving offense. I just don't think he has the offensive game.

I do however see him being a good 2nd/3rd line two-way center.

The biggest problem on this team is a gaping hole at 1st line center. Galchenyuk might be that guy someday, but he's not there yet. Plekanec is a great 2nd guy but unfortunately we are stuck with Desharnais.

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07-22-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Honestly, I don't see Eller ever being a top line center driving offense. I just don't think he has the offensive game.

I do however see him being a good 2nd/3rd line two-way center.

The biggest problem on this team is a gaping hole at 1st line center. Galchenyuk might be that guy someday, but he's not there yet. Plekanec is a great 2nd guy but unfortunately we are stuck with Desharnais.
I think the number one center role should be by committee this year with Eller, Plecs and Galchenyuk each taking turns. Give Galchenyuk all the PP minutes he can handle and Eller can be on the number two PP unit. To me, that would be ideal.

I think you're right on DD though. I don't think we're going to move him and I don't think MT is going to do anything but shelter the crap out of him at the expense of the others.

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07-22-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Honestly, I don't see Eller ever being a top line center driving offense. I just don't think he has the offensive game.

I do however see him being a good 2nd/3rd line two-way center.

The biggest problem on this team is a gaping hole at 1st line center. Galchenyuk might be that guy someday, but he's not there yet. Plekanec is a great 2nd guy but unfortunately we are stuck with Desharnais.
Moving forward we would want to see if Eller can take tough matchups (on the road mostly) to see if he can replace Plekanec at 2C and Galchenyuk would be the one to replace at 1C eventually.

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07-22-2014, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by pcamp View Post
Then move Pacioretty to the right... He did play there before if I remember correctly.

EDIT: And why do you think Desharnais couldn't play right side?
a centre playing on the wing takes adjustments. He could do it, don't get me wrong. But playing on his off wing puts him at a greater disadvantage defensively, also as a playmaker it changes the read of the play and release of the puck immensely. I think it's too much for him to adjust to all while having the pressure to produce offensively in Therrien's scheme, and not to mention the rabid fans that will be on him like a cheap suit.

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07-22-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Honestly, I don't see Eller ever being a top line center driving offense. I just don't think he has the offensive game.

I do however see him being a good 2nd/3rd line two-way center.

The biggest problem on this team is a gaping hole at 1st line center. Galchenyuk might be that guy someday, but he's not there yet. Plekanec is a great 2nd guy but unfortunately we are stuck with Desharnais.
Well it's not like Desharnais is the one driving the offense on his line so it's not a valid reason for Eller not to be used as the #1 guy.

The idea that we have to use Desharnais as our #1 center because Eller and Plekanec aren't ideal #1 centers is just dumb. If we don't have a #1 center then put the guy whose closest to being a #1 center in that spot. That guy isn't Desharnais.

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07-22-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by pcamp View Post
Moving forward we would want to see if Eller can take tough matchups (on the road mostly) to see if he can replace Plekanec at 2C and Galchenyuk would be the one to replace at 1C eventually.
I like this idea, interchanging Eller/Plekanec and DD/Galchenyuk while on the road, gmakes it a little difficult for the other team to match up, and it gives experience

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07-22-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
a centre playing on the wing takes adjustments. He could do it, don't get me wrong. But playing on his off wing puts him at a greater disadvantage defensively, also as a playmaker it changes the read of the play and release of the puck immensely. I think it's too much for him to adjust to all while having the pressure to produce offensively in Therrien's scheme, and not to mention the rabid fans that will be on him like a cheap suit.
True but at the same time he'd have less defensive responsibility as a winger then as a center so it would still be a net positive.

That being said I agree if Desharnais is moved to wing it should be LW.

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07-22-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by pcamp View Post
Then move Pacioretty to the right... He did play there before if I remember correctly.

EDIT: And why do you think Desharnais couldn't play right side?
Patches has never played RW.

Rather just trade DD, he'll be useless on the wing, he likes to carry the puck and hold on to it, much more suited for the centre of the ice than the wing.

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07-22-2014, 11:42 AM
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True but at the same time he'd have less defensive responsibility as a winger then as a center so it would still be a net positive.

That being said I agree if Desharnais is moved to wing it should be LW.
It's just too much of an adjustment really, just moving to the wing, even if he has "lesser" defensive responsibilities, they are still different enough that it will take time. Then add on the L to R shift and it's more than really needs to be done.

DD @ LW, sure, I agree, it's doable. IMHO, it just means that he and Galch are swapping spots.

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07-22-2014, 11:45 AM
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Bourque-Galchenyuk-Parenteau

Our 3rd line will be awful defensively ...

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07-22-2014, 11:46 AM
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Eller is producing at the same rate as the other two center at ES, he has no PP time, obviously he has less points.

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07-22-2014, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Eller should be a center and Desharnais should be dealt.
We've beaten this option to death. What's DD worth now? Is it more than he was worth at the same time, last year?

There continues to be a size bias in the NHL and I would surmise, only a handful of GMs willing to take on a diminutive player not named MSL for top 6 duties. Trading DD remains a pipe dream and one of this forum's enduring legendary pursuits.

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07-22-2014, 12:11 PM
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Well it's not like Desharnais is the one driving the offense on his line so it's not a valid reason for Eller not to be used as the #1 guy.

The idea that we have to use Desharnais as our #1 center because Eller and Plekanec aren't ideal #1 centers is just dumb. If we don't have a #1 center then put the guy whose closest to being a #1 center in that spot. That guy isn't Desharnais.
The problem is that Desharnais has to play somewhere. If he's going to be on the team then playing him with Pacioretty is probably the best option, like it or not. Desharnais can't play a defensive role whatsoever, so he needs to play on an offensive line. He can't be depended on to play two-way hockey.

Since Pacioretty is our best offensive forward then that would make Desharnais #1 C by default.

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07-22-2014, 12:19 PM
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The problem is that Desharnais has to play somewhere. If he's going to be on the team then playing him with Pacioretty is probably the best option, like it or not. Desharnais can't play a defensive role whatsoever, so he needs to play on an offensive line. He can't be depended on to play two-way hockey.

Since Pacioretty is our best offensive forward then that would make Desharnais #1 C by default.
I think desharnais can play decent defensively 5 on 5 but not as a PKer IMO.

Still, not sure what people expect, DD is our most appropriate for for the role. The status of #1C is over his head though.

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07-22-2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
The problem is that Desharnais has to play somewhere. If he's going to be on the team then playing him with Pacioretty is probably the best option, like it or not. Desharnais can't play a defensive role whatsoever, so he needs to play on an offensive line. He can't be depended on to play two-way hockey.

Since Pacioretty is our best offensive forward then that would make Desharnais #1 C by default.
That's an insane argument. It basically boils down to he sucks so much that we are going to use him in one of the most important roles.

Desharnais was fine during his rookie year on the third line centering Pouliot and Darche. Why can't he go back to that kind of usage. Give him Bourque and Prust and put him on the 3rd line. Hell use him like we did Briere last season, surely Desharnais is better then Briere and we found a way to keep Briere's weak defensive play from killing the team.

Playing with Pacioretty is where he looks best but it's not what's best for the team. Desharnais is not our best offensive center so why exactly should he play with our best offensive forward by default?

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07-22-2014, 12:43 PM
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That's an insane argument. It basically boils down to he sucks so much that we are going to use him in one of the most important roles.

Desharnais was fine during his rookie year on the third line centering Pouliot and Darche. Why can't he go back to that kind of usage. Give him Bourque and Prust and put him on the 3rd line. Hell use him like we did Briere last season, surely Desharnais is better then Briere and we found a way to keep Briere's weak defensive play from killing the team.

Playing with Pacioretty is where he looks best but it's not what's best for the team. Desharnais is not our best offensive center so why exactly should he play with our best offensive forward by default?
Please don't say Eller is our best offensive center.

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07-22-2014, 12:44 PM
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We've beaten this option to death. What's DD worth now? Is it more than he was worth at the same time, last year?

There continues to be a size bias in the NHL and I would surmise, only a handful of GMs willing to take on a diminutive player not named MSL for top 6 duties. Trading DD remains a pipe dream and one of this forum's enduring legendary pursuits.
If only a handful of GMs would even consider playing him in their top-6 why are we doing it?

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07-22-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Please don't say Eller is our best offensive center.
I think Eller is better than Desharnais offensively (Since he can basically match his production at ES in a much harder role). But I think Plekanec is our best offensive center. There's also Galchenyuk who has a case for being the best offensive center, though I'd want to see it over a longer period of time.

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07-22-2014, 12:49 PM
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I think Eller is better than Desharnais offensively (Since he can basically match his production at ES in a much harder role). But I think Plekanec is our best offensive center. There's also Galchenyuk who has a case for being the best offensive center, though I'd want to see it over a longer period of time.
You really think Eller would hit 60-70 points under that role?

Really?

Plekanec and DD are similar. I think difference isn't that big for either one.

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07-22-2014, 01:00 PM
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You really think Eller would hit 60-70 points under that role?

Really?

Plekanec and DD are similar. I think difference isn't that big for either one.
Well Desharnais has never gotten close to 70, he's been getting 50-60 points in that role, and in the last 2 seasons he's averaged 52. So yes I think Eller can hit 50-60pts as well and I think he'd be closer to 60 then to 50 which is better than Desharnais.

Plekanec can and has hit 70 which is a big difference over Desharnais.

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