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2013-2014 NFL Thread II? (Giants suck; Jets play Monday)

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Old
10-02-2013, 12:33 PM
  #726
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It'd be really nice if tuck shows up on Sunday, talking alota **** about people turning on the coach and what not and he's out there dogging it, I give jpp a pass because it's obvious he's still hurt.

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10-02-2013, 12:37 PM
  #727
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Eugene Monroe to Baltimore and Levi Brown to PIT, wish Giants had the cap room to make a trade for a good O-Line starter.

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10-02-2013, 12:54 PM
  #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Heh, I think you're being too harsh on the offense. Well parts of it (Eli), and too lenient on others, (the O-Line).

Where's the D pressure on opposing Quarterbacks? Non-existent.

I like to defer in these arguments, because I can readily admit you know more about football than I do. Just saying what I see.
The defense, while not good, has been nowhere near as bad as the offense, man. Every damn play is a three-and-out. Even TC admitted that and he's usually not as harsh on the O as he is the D.

The D needs to get more pressure, but look at how well they contained the Chiefs until they got worn out. It was the same against the Broncos.

We have one of the worst 3rd down conversion percentages of all time.

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10-02-2013, 01:02 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The defense, while not good, has been nowhere near as bad as the offense, man. Every damn play is a three-and-out. Even TC admitted that and he's usually not as harsh on the O as he is the D.

The D needs to get more pressure, but look at how well they contained the Chiefs until they got worn out. It was the same against the Broncos.

We have one of the worst 3rd down conversion percentages of all time.
I agree with you that the offense has been horrid, but I place the blame more on the makeshift O-Line than I do Eli. I don't think anyone could make the argument that the offense has even been average, because it's been crap.

And you are correct, a big problem for the D has been the fact that they're on the field for too long, and more often than not, not given great field position from a combination of the offense and the special teams.

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10-02-2013, 01:05 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I agree with you that the offense has been horrid, but I place the blame more on the makeshift O-Line than I do Eli. I don't think anyone could make the argument that the offense has even been average, because it's been crap.

And you are correct, a big problem for the D has been the fact that they're on the field for too long, and more often than not, not given great field position from a combination of the offense and the special teams.
Believe it or not, but the O-Line was better as "makeshift" than it was with the regulars.

And Eli is just as much to blame, dude. His passes have been horrid and his decisionmaking is as bad as it was when he was a rookie. Something is wrong with him and I wonder if he's injured and playing through it. I point you to just look at how often he is over or under-throwing guys. It's just about every play. He's laying Cruz out all the time and Nicks has simply stopped putting his body at risk with those bad passes, it seems.

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10-02-2013, 01:31 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Believe it or not, but the O-Line was better as "makeshift" than it was with the regulars.

And Eli is just as much to blame, dude. His passes have been horrid and his decisionmaking is as bad as it was when he was a rookie. Something is wrong with him and I wonder if he's injured and playing through it. I point you to just look at how often he is over or under-throwing guys. It's just about every play. He's laying Cruz out all the time and Nicks has simply stopped putting his body at risk with those bad passes, it seems.
I really think you're extra harsh on Eli because of how so many Giants fans are extra passive on him. I don't think he's been as bad as you see him being. It's like you with Lundqvist sometimes. Just because most people can't admit when he gives up a bad goal, you make some goals he has no chance on (like double deflections or crazy screened shots) out to be Hank's fault.

And I don't blame you for your insights in those kind of situations. Sometimes, it's refreshing to hear someone bash the unbashable.

I think Eli's interception numbers are crazy heavily inflated right now. I don't remember exact numbers, but there are tipped balls that had no business being picked off this year. Then there is the case of he and his receivers continuing to be on different pages on routes. How many times this season have we seen Eli read one on one coverage deep, throw the ball there, and then the receiver runs the under route? Too many.

Of course he's made bad decisions, but he's throwing up catchable balls to his receivers most of the time. He's setting up Cruz to get smacked every time he catches the ball, because he doesn't have enough time in the pocket to let Cruz get into open space. I don't see it with Nicks, but agree that Nicks is playing quite passive these days. I think Nicks is too far in his own head right now for some reason.

In fact, the whole team from top to bottom just looks so unmotivated. And when you're in an 0-4 hole it's tough to blame them.

I agree with you that Eli has been subpar this season, I promise you that. But I do not agree that Eli is just as much to blame on this offense than the offensive line, and backfield blocking are.

Time to put John Conner in.

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Old
10-02-2013, 01:35 PM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I really think you're extra harsh on Eli because of how so many Giants fans are extra passive on him. I don't think he's been as bad as you see him being. It's like you with Lundqvist sometimes. Just because most people can't admit when he gives up a bad goal, you make some goals he has no chance on (like double deflections or crazy screened shots) out to be Hank's fault.

And I don't blame you for your insights in those kind of situations. Sometimes, it's refreshing to hear someone bash the unbashable.

I think Eli's interception numbers are crazy heavily inflated right now. I don't remember exact numbers, but there are tipped balls that had no business being picked off this year. Then there is the case of he and his receivers continuing to be on different pages on routes. How many times this season have we seen Eli read one on one coverage deep, throw the ball there, and then the receiver runs the under route? Too many.

Of course he's made bad decisions, but he's throwing up catchable balls to his receivers most of the time. He's setting up Cruz to get smacked every time he catches the ball, because he doesn't have enough time in the pocket to let Cruz get into open space. I don't see it with Nicks, but agree that Nicks is playing quite passive these days. I think Nicks is too far in his own head right now for some reason.

In fact, the whole team from top to bottom just looks so unmotivated. And when you're in an 0-4 hole it's tough to blame them.

I agree with you that Eli has been subpar this season, I promise you that. But I do not agree that Eli is just as much to blame on this offense than the offensive line, and backfield blocking are.

Time to put John Conner in.
No, I'm just realistic. Fans simply don't blame the goalie or the QB and it's been that way for ages. I place equal blame on them as I would any other player.

Just look at some of the stuff that Eli has done this year. He is reading routes completely wrong (interception in the end zone against the Broncos with no receiver in sight, interception last week with no receiver in sight). Like I said, I think he may be injured since something is just not right with him. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt there.

I am curious what Conner can do. Talented but injury prone.

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Old
10-02-2013, 01:38 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
No, I'm just realistic. Fans simply don't blame the goalie or the QB and it's been that way for ages. I place equal blame on them as I would any other player.

Just look at some of the stuff that Eli has done this year. He is reading routes completely wrong (interception in the end zone against the Broncos with no receiver in sight, interception last week with no receiver in sight). Like I said, I think he may be injured since something is just not right with him. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt there.

I am curious what Conner can do. Talented but injury prone.
I agree with everything in this post, especially the bolded which I had brought up. That's a combination thing though of Eli, and the receiver. I think more often than not it happens with Randle than any other guy. Maybe you see it as an Eli thing, but I see it as a chemistry/comfort/coaching/awareness thing. Which is on Eli's shoulders, but just as much as it's on the shoulders of the receivers and the coaching staff.

I guess I'm an equal accountability kind of guy. And at least Eli isn't throwing passes with his left arm anymore

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10-02-2013, 01:40 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I agree with everything in this post, especially the bolded which I had brought up. That's a combination thing though of Eli, and the receiver. I think more often than not it happens with Randle than any other guy. Maybe you see it as an Eli thing, but I see it as a chemistry/comfort/coaching/awareness thing. Which is on Eli's shoulders, but just as much as it's on the shoulders of the receivers and the coaching staff.

I guess I'm an equal accountability kind of guy. And at least Eli isn't throwing passes with his left arm anymore
FWIW, the main reason I think he's injured is because his balls don't seem to have the same zip that they did last year and the year before.

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10-02-2013, 01:55 PM
  #735
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Giants should be selling not buying, especially future free agents.

I think most of Eli's problems are him pressing to make a play because no one else on offense can.

Terrible run offense
Terrible pass blocking
Non-creative playcalling

It all adds up to more weight on Eli's shoulders.

Maybe if Reese could make a decent pick after round 2 our team wouldn't be a joke.

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10-02-2013, 01:55 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Miz View Post
Eugene Monroe to Baltimore and Levi Brown to PIT, wish Giants had the cap room to make a trade for a good O-Line starter.
Don't want either of them on nyg

But I agree with wanting to upgrade the OL in general

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10-02-2013, 02:03 PM
  #737
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Giants should be selling not buying, especially future free agents.
Sell what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
I think most of Eli's problems are him pressing to make a play because no one else on offense can.
He doesn't have time to make plays because of the O-Line. The playmakers are there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
Terrible run offense
Terrible pass blocking
Non-creative playcalling

It all adds up to more weight on Eli's shoulders.
Take out a the bad pass blocking and the same was true for a their latest SB win.

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Maybe if Reese could make a decent pick after round 2 our team wouldn't be a joke.
You're really killing Jerry Reese? He's had a bad offseason. The last time he had this bad an offseason (or so we thought) they won the Super Bowl.

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10-02-2013, 03:45 PM
  #738
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You're really killing Jerry Reese? He's had a bad offseason. The last time he had this bad an offseason (or so we thought) they won the Super Bowl.
He's been coasting on the 07 draft forever.

His draft history after round 2 is a tire fire. I understand its not an exact science but come on.

Why has this team collapsed? Because we got old & we only get 1 *maybe* 2 players a draft to contribute.

I'm done drinking the Reese kool aid.

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10-03-2013, 09:13 AM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
He's been coasting on the 07 draft forever.

His draft history after round 2 is a tire fire. I understand its not an exact science but come on.

Why has this team collapsed? Because we got old & we only get 1 *maybe* 2 players a draft to contribute.

I'm done drinking the Reese kool aid.
2 super bowls doesn't equal drinking kool aid. It means giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who knows what they're doing. I do admit the pattern of poor late round drafting is worrying though and in another year or two it may be time to move on but I don't think it's necassary

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10-03-2013, 09:32 AM
  #740
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It's no shock that the last multiple SB Winners are both 0-4. Winning SBs overvalued your players to the point where you either can afford them or they become complacent.

the front 4 doesn't pressure the QB anymore. everything starts with the pass rush, which has been garbage. Pass rushers ruin field position, create long yardage situations, force turnovers and make an offense half of one dimensional.

The offensive line is lame but there's no excuse for the play calling. Short routes, screen passes and draw plays on appropriate downs will keep a defense honest. Brady has had a terrible o-line the last few years.

It's a lost year. It happens. Get the top picks and recock.

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10-03-2013, 09:48 AM
  #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGBleedBlueNYR View Post
He's been coasting on the 07 draft forever.

His draft history after round 2 is a tire fire. I understand its not an exact science but come on.

Why has this team collapsed? Because we got old & we only get 1 *maybe* 2 players a draft to contribute.

I'm done drinking the Reese kool aid.
That's not why the team has collapsed. You can't rebuild an o-line after one draft. The real argument is asking why Reese hasn't been building the line for more than a year, which is makes much more sense.

The playcalling is awful, JPP has a shattered back and can't do anything, and Tuck has been subpar for 3 years now (which is why we've drafted guys like Damontre Moore and Hankins.) Linval is a stud DT but nobody around him can do anything.

Prince is a stud. Corey Webster was really good less than two years ago and suddenly lost everything. Rolle is overrated but everybody loves him and he's the only real safety we have. Let's blame Reese for not being a clairvoyant.

Considering we won the super bowl 2 years ago, it's absolutely ridiculous to "stop drinking the Reese kool-aid" when nobody is drinking kool aid, we just appreciate we have a good GM.

Retool in the draft, fire the coaches, and see what happens next year. Look what a change in staff did for KC.

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10-03-2013, 10:14 AM
  #742
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If we are going to have a rebuild phase I'd prefer to have a more competent drafting GM.

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10-03-2013, 10:58 AM
  #743
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I'm going to have a lovely fantasy week.

3 players on bye: Martin, Jackson, Morris

3 players didn't practice Wednesday: Marshall, Fitzgerald, Decker

If all 6 players are out I have 2 RB and 0 WR to start this week. Yaaay...

But I have 3 QBs so that's always something...

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10-03-2013, 11:09 AM
  #744
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Browns on national TV (and worth watching for once!) before the Rangers home opener. Gonna be a good TV night tonight!

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10-03-2013, 11:37 AM
  #745
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The Jets are walking to an impossible situation this week. On the road in Atlanta without Holmes and Hill. Atlanta is 1-3. The Saints are 4-0 and they beat Atlanta already. Frisco is getting one of the wildcards. Atlanta loses this game they're 1-4. Not happening. Chicago and Detroit are 3-1. Packers are 1-2. One of those teams is winning that division. The other 2 will be in WC mix. The Jets can easily be 3-6 heading into their bye week. @ATL,Pitt,NE,@CIN and NO. The Steeler game at home seems to be the most winnable game. The Jets can very easily lose that one too. 2 road games out of the bye. @Buff and @BAL. 3-8. Then its Miami and Oakland at home. At Carolina. Browns at home. At Miami to finish the year. Get a high pick. The Jets have TB's 4th which becomes a 3rd if Revis is on their roster in March which he will. 4 picks in the top 70. TB is 0-4. Fire Rex. Cut Sanchez and Holmes.

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10-03-2013, 12:53 PM
  #746
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I would ask Rex to step down as coach and remain as def coordinator. He probably won't take that because he's a coveted defense coach, but I still think he's an outstanding coordinator.

The Jets need to rebuild their offense. Their defense is young, mean and tough to play.

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10-03-2013, 12:54 PM
  #747
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The Jets are walking to an impossible situation this week. On the road in Atlanta without Holmes and Hill. Atlanta is 1-3. The Saints are 4-0 and they beat Atlanta already. Frisco is getting one of the wildcards. Atlanta loses this game they're 1-4. Not happening. Chicago and Detroit are 3-1. Packers are 1-2. One of those teams is winning that division. The other 2 will be in WC mix. The Jets can easily be 3-6 heading into their bye week. @ATL,Pitt,NE,@CIN and NO. The Steeler game at home seems to be the most winnable game. The Jets can very easily lose that one too. 2 road games out of the bye. @Buff and @BAL. 3-8. Then its Miami and Oakland at home. At Carolina. Browns at home. At Miami to finish the year. Get a high pick. The Jets have TB's 4th which becomes a 3rd if Revis is on their roster in March which he will. 4 picks in the top 70. TB is 0-4. Fire Rex. Cut Sanchez and Holmes.
That's why I feel good going into the game. The franchise has always, always performed better as an underdog. As a favorite, or even just when people are expecting us to be competitive? Crapfest.

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I would ask Rex to step down as coach and remain as def coordinator. He probably won't take that because he's a overhead defense coach, but I still think he's an outstanding coordinator.

The Jets need to rebuild their offense. Their defense is young, mean and tough to play.
Rex will be a great defensive coordinator somewhere. While I'd like someone of his caliber running our defense, I think it's probably just best to make a clean break. It will always be somewhat of a circus with him around.

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Old
10-03-2013, 03:29 PM
  #748
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Agreed. You can't ask Rex to step down. He needs to either be kept or be fired.

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10-03-2013, 03:38 PM
  #749
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Agreed. You can't ask Rex to step down. He needs to either be kept or be fired.
You can ask him. There's no way he'll do it.

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10-03-2013, 03:50 PM
  #750
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Two coaching candidates for the Jets. Both of them are offensive coaches.

David Shaw. Stanford head coach. 41 years old. NFL experience. He was with Jim Harbaugh at San Diego State and Stanford.

Darrell Bevell. 43 years old. Seahawks OC. Formerly the Vikings OC. He was a Packers offensive assistant with Mike Sherman. John Idzik knows him from Seattle.

The Jets have gone with a defensive coach since 1997. Parcells. Groh. Edwards. Mangini. Ryan.

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