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Historical dearth of Quebecois on Team Canada

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Old
07-06-2005, 08:34 PM
  #1
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Historical dearth of Quebecois on Team Canada

Not being French Canadian nor wanting to start a cat fight but mindful as we all should be of such matters (and Canadians thankfully are mindfull of these things), is anyone concerned at the historically low percentage of Quebecois players on Team Canada? Is it even so - maybe someone should do a % comparision versus the # of Quebec players in the league since 72.

Short of being a Boston Red Sox situation since we arent talking about integration necessarily, but rather a fairness issue. You look at the 1996 World Cup team; or Gretzky's 2002 squad. Patrick Roy said no and hinted at many reasons.

3 players? In 72/76 there were 8 or so.

Is it because those picking have been usually not from Quebec? Montrealers Scotty and Sam picked 76, the greatest team ever. Or has the province not developed its players. It seems unless you're a Mario or Lecav talent wise, you might be taking a back seat.

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07-06-2005, 08:37 PM
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Not really concerned. How many players from BC were there? Alberta? Newfoundland? You can't make a team up of diplomacy to every province.

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07-06-2005, 10:13 PM
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Chooch buddy, your racist colors show once again.

If the Quebecois are good, they make the team. If they are not they don't.

Why try to bring racism into something that is clearly not?


Last edited by Ogopogo*: 07-07-2005 at 11:58 AM.
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07-06-2005, 10:25 PM
  #4
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Traditionally, the Quebec junior leagues produce solely offensive-minded players.

In any event, Team Canada has traditionally always gone for a well-rounded squad. These players have come from Ontario and Western Canada. As the Quebecois aren't big on defense, they're largely left off of our international squads, unless their offensive upside is a major one.

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07-07-2005, 07:31 AM
  #5
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I think some Team Canada's have been dominated by the coaching staffs in charge at given times. There were NYI dominated teams,and Keenan dominated teams, that I thought may have gone a bit too far. Derrick Smith comes to mind. I don't no of obvious cases where guys got snubbed otherwise. I thought Roy should have been considered earlier in his career, but in my eyes it wasn't a provincial biase. I suspect that WJC biase lives more in the eyes of RDS broadcasters, though the actual experts usually set them straight. I'm drawing a blank on the longtime QC journalist who specializes in Jr. hockey. I honestly don't believe there was ever an outright biase,rather guys who played their favorites,whoever they may be. If Alain Cote played for Keenan, I'm sure he would have been selected instead of a Smith, as a grinder. I've always thought the Quebecois can't play D arguement was a myth, but that's just me.

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07-07-2005, 07:37 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Chooch buddy, your racist colors show once again.

If the Quebecois are good, they make the team. If they are not they don't.

Why try to bring racism into something that is clearly not?

BTW, thanks for not hanging around here that much anymore.
Are the Quebecois their own race now?

Tom

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07-07-2005, 08:17 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
I think some Team Canada's have been dominated by the coaching staffs in charge at given times. There were NYI dominated teams,and Keenan dominated teams, that I thought may have gone a bit too far. Derrick Smith comes to mind.

Derrick Smith never played for Team Canada:

In 87 the Flyers were:
Propp - certainly deserving
Tocchet - young, but also deserving
Hextall - never played, but was Vezina & Conn Smythe winner deservign
Crossman - only debatable pick, but he was certainly in the discussion

He did not select his own team captian, Dave Poulin.

Keenan's 91 squad

Blackhawks
Belfour - Vezina winner
Larmer - 40+ goals and 101 points
Dirk Graham - selke award winner

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07-07-2005, 11:42 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Derrick Smith never played for Team Canada:

In 87 the Flyers were:
Propp - certainly deserving
Tocchet - young, but also deserving
Hextall - never played, but was Vezina & Conn Smythe winner deservign
Crossman - only debatable pick, but he was certainly in the discussion

He did not select his own team captian, Dave Poulin.

Keenan's 91 squad

Blackhawks
Belfour - Vezina winner
Larmer - 40+ goals and 101 points
Dirk Graham - selke award winner
John, I'm sure he did. Damn you, now I'll have to actually make an effort and prove it. Sadly, I'll end up being wrong and doing the 'oops' post. Could he have been at camp and not made the team ?

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07-07-2005, 11:51 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by mcphee
John, I'm sure he did. Damn you, now I'll have to actually make an effort and prove it. Sadly, I'll end up being wrong and doing the 'oops' post. Could he have been at camp and not made the team ?
Derrick Smith was a camp cut in 1987

guys like Al MacInnis and Scott Stevens were also cut that year I believe--whereas Norman Rochefort was kept for what its worth

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07-07-2005, 11:55 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Is it because those picking have been usually not from Quebec? Montrealers Scotty and Sam picked 76, the greatest team ever. Or has the province not developed its players. It seems unless you're a Mario or Lecav talent wise, you might be taking a back seat.
recently, it probably has a lot to do with the fact that Quebec hasn't produced a stud defenseman since Ray Bourque, and maybe Desjardins. If you subtract the defense position from the latest best-on-best roster (world cup), you'll see that Quebec makes up 1/3 of the remaining team.

i really can't see any racism at all, because let's face it, there may not be a single Quebecois in the top 15 or 20 for Canadian defensemen. is it racist that Team Canada hasn't had a goalie from Alberta or BC in a long, long time? it's just the kind of players that the respective junior leagues produce. Quebec is always heavy on elite finess and goaltending, and relatively weak on elite defensemen and grinders


Last edited by arrbez: 07-07-2005 at 02:57 PM.
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07-07-2005, 12:00 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasincanada
Are the Quebecois their own race now?

Tom
chooch certainly treats it that way. His posts are very anti English.

I bet he has a BQ membership card.

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07-07-2005, 04:04 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
chooch certainly treats it that way. His posts are very anti English.

I bet he has a BQ membership card.
To imply that BQ is anti-english is racism itself.

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07-07-2005, 04:12 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raskolnikov76
To imply that BQ is anti-english is racism itself.
LOL. Please explain how they are not anti-English

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07-07-2005, 06:34 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Not being French Canadian nor wanting to start a cat fight but mindful as we all should be of such matters (and Canadians thankfully are mindfull of these things), is anyone concerned at the historically low percentage of Quebecois players on Team Canada? Is it even so - maybe someone should do a % comparision versus the # of Quebec players in the league since 72.

Short of being a Boston Red Sox situation since we arent talking about integration necessarily, but rather a fairness issue. You look at the 1996 World Cup team; or Gretzky's 2002 squad. Patrick Roy said no and hinted at many reasons.

3 players? In 72/76 there were 8 or so.

Is it because those picking have been usually not from Quebec? Montrealers Scotty and Sam picked 76, the greatest team ever. Or has the province not developed its players. It seems unless you're a Mario or Lecav talent wise, you might be taking a back seat.
Just one question. What Quebec born players weren't asked to come that deserved to be there over somebody who was selected? Roy and Bourque don't count because they opted out.

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07-07-2005, 07:30 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Not being French Canadian nor wanting to start a cat fight but mindful as we all should be of such matters (and Canadians thankfully are mindfull of these things), is anyone concerned at the historically low percentage of Quebecois players on Team Canada? Is it even so - maybe someone should do a % comparision versus the # of Quebec players in the league since 72.

Short of being a Boston Red Sox situation since we arent talking about integration necessarily, but rather a fairness issue. You look at the 1996 World Cup team; or Gretzky's 2002 squad. Patrick Roy said no and hinted at many reasons.

3 players? In 72/76 there were 8 or so.

Is it because those picking have been usually not from Quebec? Montrealers Scotty and Sam picked 76, the greatest team ever. Or has the province not developed its players. It seems unless you're a Mario or Lecav talent wise, you might be taking a back seat.
Chooch, congratulations on your effective use of the word dearth. It was the only thing this post had going for it.

"Cat fight" usually references a hair pulling scratch fest with lots of kicking between two jilted ladies. Are you involved in many of those?

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07-07-2005, 07:33 PM
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Just curious, name some good Canadian Quebecois players who deserve to be on Team Canada as opposed to the current usual players.

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07-07-2005, 07:53 PM
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a word to the wise here...if this turns into some political pissing contest here..

I promise that the NHL will be back before some of you will.

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BOSTON STRONG !!!
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07-07-2005, 08:27 PM
  #18
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In my most serious response I can muster: No, we needn't be concerned. There have been a few good french canadians who turned down invitations; otherwise I can't think of any who should have been there but weren't extended the opportunity. To suggest otherwise without providing a list of spurned candidates seems like an invitation for trouble IMHO.

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07-07-2005, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
chooch certainly treats it that way. His posts are very anti English.

I bet he has a BQ membership card.
hmmm.. lets see Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, Gordie, Harvey, Trottier etc all more complete (ie better) hockey players than your hero #99. Is that a racist argument?

I guess if I include Rocket Jean Guy and Mario suddenly I'm a racist against anglophones. And natives too if I recall you stating..funny I have indian blood and am married to a pure anglo.

Why dont you pull that hockey register out from under you nose and count how many Quebecois have played for the Oilers?

what is it 30 out of 1000 players?

You should talk.

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07-07-2005, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
Chooch, congratulations on your effective use of the word dearth. It was the only thing this post had going for it.

"Cat fight" usually references a hair pulling scratch fest with lots of kicking between two jilted ladies. Are you involved in many of those?
I notice you dont use the word "viagara" (sic) in your libellous statements anymore. figured all you had to do was to look at the bottle on your night table to spell it right.

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07-07-2005, 10:19 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
hmmm.. lets see Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, Gordie, Harvey, Trottier etc all more complete (ie better) hockey players than your hero #99. Is that a racist argument?
lol, your definition of "better" is quite skewed. Bobby Holik is a very good two-way player, so he's better than Ilya Kovalchuk right? Kovalchuk doesn't backcheck OR take face-offs, so he must be the inferior player...

being a more complete player (ie: larger skill-set) does not necessarily make you a better player

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07-07-2005, 10:46 PM
  #22
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Arrbez hit the nail on the head earlier: Quebec has not produced a legitimate No. 1 NHL defenceman since Eric DesJardins in 1987. That's not to say they haven't had some good, top-4 defencemen (Denis Gauthier Jr., for example), but nobody worthy of playing for Canada since DesJardins.

Quebec has had strong representation in goal (Brodeur, Luongo, Theodore in recent best-on-bests), and they've had offensive forwards who have thrived. (Lemieux, Lecavalier, St. Louis. Gagne has been solid in a two-way role). But they haven't produced many strong defensive forwards. (Primeau, McCauley, Draper, Maltby, Peca, Madden are not from Quebec).

Alex Tanguay is the only Quebec-born player I can think of worthy of being on Team Canada in the World Cup who was left off the team. And the fact is, when a team goes 6-0, you can't honestly second-guess a team.

Quebec has succeeded in developing goalies and speedy, offensive forwards. But until they start churning out top-notch defencemen or defensive forwards, they will lag behind Ontario and Western Canada.

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07-07-2005, 11:01 PM
  #23
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Quebec doesn't have a lot of representation on Team Canada because they don't produce a lot of positional players.

For a generation now, Quebec's best athletes have tended to be goaltenders. They're kind of the victims of a goaltending log jam in this sense. You only need three goalies on a roster, so the rest of the Quebec talent gets shut out of the Team Canada selection process.

On defense, I can't think of any Quebec born defenseman who anybody would consider to be a top seven amongst Canadian defensemen.

Up front, we have Lecavalier, St. Louis, Mario Lemieux and Simon Gagne, and none of those players were excluded from the World Cup Team. Outside of these four guys, which other Quebec born forwards would you put on the roster? Eric Daze, Daniel Briere, JP Dumont and Alex Tanguay could make the team, but they aren't necessarily better than other Canadians, or they don't serve particular team needs.

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07-07-2005, 11:07 PM
  #24
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Daze and Briere would make good players for Canada's B team. (Daze may be better suited to the C team). DuMont wouldn't make Canada's C team.

I can't think of a Quebec born defencemen that would be in our top 20. DesJardins and Boucher would likely be the best Quebec-born defencemen right now. They're not worthy of our C team.

By the way, is it just me or has the Quebec goaltending pipeline started to slow in recent years. Not to say they aren't producing quality netminders, but the last three or four years haven't been as productive as when they were producing 1 or 2 No. 1s a year in the 1990s.


Last edited by God Bless Canada: 07-07-2005 at 11:15 PM.
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07-07-2005, 11:26 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
hmmm.. lets see Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, Gordie, Harvey, Trottier etc all more complete (ie better) hockey players than your hero #99. Is that a racist argument?

I guess if I include Rocket Jean Guy and Mario suddenly I'm a racist against anglophones. And natives too if I recall you stating..funny I have indian blood and am married to a pure anglo.

Why dont you pull that hockey register out from under you nose and count how many Quebecois have played for the Oilers?

what is it 30 out of 1000 players?

You should talk.
LOL. In your world only are any of those players better than Gretzky.

What difference does it make how many Quebecois have played for the Oil? I don't care one way or the other. It seems to make a big difference to you.

If a guy can play, he can play. BTW, just to calm your nerves, Kevin Lowe is from Lachute.

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