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Historical dearth of Quebecois on Team Canada

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Old
07-09-2005, 10:36 AM
  #51
Psycho Papa Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
It's not a matter of whether Quebec has produced quality defencemen in the past. They have. (Bourque, Potvin and Harvey are three of the five best ever IMO). But they haven't produced a quality defenceman since DesJardins in 1987. He's not even in the radar for Team Canada anymore. In fact, it could be argued that DesJardins is the best Quebec-born defenceman in the league today. That's something that the powers that be in Quebec hockey should find troublesome. (Phillipe Boucher would likely be No. 2).

Benoit Brunet good enough for Team Canada? Non. Was never considered an elite defensive forward. Good, serviceable player who overcame some serious injuries to play a solid, third line role for more than 500 games, but he was never good enough to warrant consideration for Team Canada. He could have been born in Thunder Bay, Ontario; Carlyle, Saskatchewan; or Powell River, B.C., it would have made no difference. Benoit Brunet wasn't good enough to play for Canada.

Savard's rejection wasn't due to Sather. Sather invited the players to camp, then let Mike Keenan make the decisions. Keenan had the hate-on for Savard for years. (Team Canada dropped the training camp system in 1991).
The Savard exclusion was definetly a Keenan thing. He also excluded Steve Yzerman. For whatever reason Keenan had a hate on for certain players and it had nothing to do with what province they came from. No way should Courtnall have been there ahead of guys like Stevie Y and Savard.

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Old
07-09-2005, 12:38 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
LOL. In your world only are any of those players better than Gretzky.

What difference does it make how many Quebecois have played for the Oil? I don't care one way or the other. It seems to make a big difference to you.

If a guy can play, he can play. BTW, just to calm your nerves, Kevin Lowe is from Lachute.
Actually, I'd make the case that Orr was the best of all-time, but that's neither here nor there in this argument.

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Old
07-09-2005, 01:03 PM
  #53
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why not title this thread "Historical dearth of Nova Scotians on Team Canada" ?

it's just as relevant.

the implication that team canada (which the title of this thread implies "english" canada) discriminates against french players is bogus.

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Old
07-09-2005, 03:52 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnie
I don't know about Team Canada, but anyone who thinks that there isn't a bias against French players by the Canadian Anglo, and I mean mainly the Ontario, old boy network is crazy.

People seem to forget how badly Lemieux was treated by the press before his retirement. And you don't have to go back very far to remember Don Cherry's tirade against wimpy French players who wear visors. These are just the tip of the iceberg. It doesn't get talked about much, but anti-French bigotry is very strong in Canadian hockey. Probably less so today than in the past, but it exists.

The trouble with most Americans who comment on such stuff is that they have no history of Anglo-French animostity in Canada, so they don't know what they are talkling about.
If Don Cherry said any of those comments in the US he would have been fired in 1982. See Jimmy the Greek.

He makes millions a year in canada still, go figure. His patsy RM bothers me almost as much because he's an enabler.

There are thousands of QJMHL defencemen who didnt get drafted (usually only about 3-4 a year get the token late rounds nod) because teams know they'd rather work with others. And once you have size and some skating ability, playing defence in the nhl is only about being tutored.

To hawker14 - bogus how?

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Old
07-09-2005, 04:14 PM
  #55
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well there is quite obviously no anti-quebec sentiment with hockey canada.... its as obvious as the nose on my face to anybody who looks at the numbers for more than 2 seconds.... everybody here has already made my argument for me, and ten times over, but some people just believe something and refuse to look at another point of view

as far as the BQ not being "anti-english", well thats laughable beyond all comprehension

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Old
07-09-2005, 04:14 PM
  #56
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The only fair solution is to pick 2 or 3 players from each province to represent Team Canada in international tournmanents. After all, it is more important to be diplomatic than to put the best team possible out on the ice...

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Old
07-09-2005, 06:48 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
well there is quite obviously no anti-quebec sentiment with hockey canada.... its as obvious as the nose on my face to anybody who looks at the numbers for more than 2 seconds.... everybody here has already made my argument for me, and ten times over, but some people just believe something and refuse to look at another point of view

as far as the BQ not being "anti-english", well thats laughable beyond all comprehension
BQ is pro-quebec, pro-french and anti-canada. It isn't "anti-english". But nice try.

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Old
07-09-2005, 06:53 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
not suggesting tokenism just fairness; some would rather keep their heads in the sand.

Its also a question of what the fans want to see - the Oilers have had 30 or so French Canadians out of 1000 players in their history; thats what the locals want.

Its a fact of life in the NHL but it also plays a role on Team Canada.
Except in odd cases like Denis Savards, we're talking about the average player, checking line or grinders who fill up Team Canada. These are the majority of players.

Guy Carbonneau could have played for Team Canada instead of Dirk Graham or Brent Sutter. Were Brisebois or Cote or Duchesne or Lefevbre or Petit better than McCabe or Brewer or Crossman or Mark Tinordi; with these guys there's really little difference to the net result for Team Canda in the tournament once you get past the Marios and Waynes and Potvins and Prongers etc.
Where do you get this magical "1000" number for players the Oilers have had in their history? In 25 years X 20 players that would be 500 players if they completely changed their entire roster every season. The reality is, the Oilers have probably had somewhere between 300 and 400 players in their NHL history.

30 of 300 is 10%. That is a helluva lot of Quebecois. When you consider all the players coming from all parts of the globe, that tells me that the Oilers have had a very generous amount of French Canadians.

There is no English agenda to keep French players off of Team Canada or the Edmonton Oilers. You are paranoid.

Could it be that Western Canadians have hypnotized Kevin Lowe to keep fellow Quebecers off of the team????? Yeah, that must be it.

Keep your false racism accusations in the right forum. Your house.

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Old
07-09-2005, 07:34 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH˛
BQ is pro-quebec, pro-french and anti-canada. It isn't "anti-english". But nice try.
Its a matter of semantics and if you live in quebec or not. Quebec is the french, and the rest of Canada is the english. In quebec, if you say you hate the english your saying you hate the rest of canada. Its a local thing.

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Old
07-09-2005, 08:00 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch

To hawker14 - bogus how?
because your argument does not hold any weight. who are all these quebecers that have been discriminated against that deserved to be on canadian teams ?

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Old
07-09-2005, 09:03 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawker14
because your argument does not hold any weight. who are all these quebecers that have been discriminated against that deserved to be on canadian teams ?
I gave you some names.

I never accused anyone of anything - regional differences and favoritsm just like in the Eagleson days exist thats all. Or is there something organiclly wrong with the QMJHL?

Markets like in Edmonton will support certain players more. Lowe is only playing to that sentiment. Anyone who thinks they or some other teams have been "generous" to players from Quebec is an idiot. Just look at the numbers - regulars over 30 years.

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Old
07-09-2005, 09:25 PM
  #62
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I live in Edmonton and I know "what the locals want". We want players who are proud to wear our logo. Even if he isn't the most talented, if he brings his A game every night we'll appreciate it. None of us are griping about French players. This whole thing is incredibly lame. "Wahhh everyone's against us, you're ruining my life!"

Your argument—as usual—doesn't hold water. Don't take shots at Edmonton fans unless you actually know what the hell you're talking about. You're just…ridiculous. But it's nice to see you at rock-bottom. I find your slander against my fanbase really offensive, I know I wouldn't get away with this type of trash on a Montreal forum.


Last edited by se7en*: 07-09-2005 at 09:30 PM.
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Old
07-09-2005, 09:53 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan
Its a matter of semantics and if you live in quebec or not. Quebec is the french, and the rest of Canada is the english. In quebec, if you say you hate the english your saying you hate the rest of canada. Its a local thing.
I see a huge difference. But whatever...

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Old
07-09-2005, 10:24 PM
  #64
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Firstly, I think this argument is kind of moot given the fact that a lot of different provinces focus on different gameplay styles and have a lot of strengths in different positions.

For example, Quebec has been VERY well represented in the goaltending department. Jose Theodore, Martin Brodeur, and Roberto Luongo are pretty much staples for the Canadian National teams. Roy would have been as well, but his own problems stopped him from playing for his country(his excuse in 2002 was what, that he wanted to win a Cup?)

As for the QMJHL, yes, it is a very offensive minded league. It doesn't produce a LOT of players with good defensive qualities. Eric Desjardins, as someone else mentioned, is one of the last No. 1 calibre defenders from Quebec that I can think of off the top of my head. Bourque being another.

The fact is, look at Canadian teams as players by province, instead of all the other provinces vs Quebec. You'll see the ratio between the provinces isn't all that distant. Of course if you compare 1 province to a combined 9 others, it won't look too flattering for the Quebecois.

But then again, if that's the stubborn viewpoint you choose to endorse, that is your perogative.

~Canucklehead~

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Old
07-09-2005, 10:49 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
I gave you some names.

I never accused anyone of anything - regional differences and favoritsm just like in the Eagleson days exist thats all. Or is there something organiclly wrong with the QMJHL?

Markets like in Edmonton will support certain players more. Lowe is only playing to that sentiment. Anyone who thinks they or some other teams have been "generous" to players from Quebec is an idiot. Just look at the numbers - regulars over 30 years.
the names i've seen you post are guy carbonneau, benoit brunet, and denis savard.

carbonneau maybe, who would you take off for him ?
brunet, are you serious that he deserved team canada consideration ?
denis savard, i wasn't aware he wasn't on any team canada team. however one player does not indicate discrimination against a province's players as a whole.

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Old
07-10-2005, 09:53 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawker14
the names i've seen you post are guy carbonneau, benoit brunet, and denis savard.

carbonneau maybe, who would you take off for him ?
brunet, are you serious that he deserved team canada consideration ?
denis savard, i wasn't aware he wasn't on any team canada team. however one player does not indicate discrimination against a province's players as a whole.
I have to agree. You honestly think Benoit Brunet ever deserved consideration for Team Canada?

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Old
07-10-2005, 03:32 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
They are championing the separation from Canada simply to "maintain Quebecois heritage".

I always thought Canada was a mix of cultures. Apparently the BQ is very much against that.
As said previously, this is not the political board, but I find important to correct this false statement. In north america, it arguments like "this is evil" and "this is good" are oftenly the ones used cause they don't require much thinking. Still, Quebecers are not racist, nor is the BQ or PQ. Quebec, as Canada, is a mix of cultures... still, its not "the English-speaking and others"... its "the English- + French-speaking persons and others". However, french is the first language spoken by more than 80% of Quebec's citizen, and its own and very disctinct culture is now built around it.

Anyway, the BQ currently as two deputees that don't have French origins. According to your statement, they have nothing to do in this party:

- Bernard Cleary, a first-nation representative
- Maka Kotto, borned in Cameroun (FIRST AFRICAN-BORN TO BE ELECTED IN CANADA)

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify this false statement.

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Old
07-10-2005, 04:06 PM
  #68
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I'm going to close this now. No matter what it continues to drift into politics and racism perceived or otherwise.

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