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Why I'm glad Crosby is leveraging against NHL entry-level limits.

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Old
07-07-2005, 02:06 AM
  #1
kurt
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Why I'm glad Crosby is leveraging against NHL entry-level limits.

I personally feel as though prospects like Ovechkin and Crosby are really getting the pooey end of the stick in this rumoured CBA framework. I suppose it's natural, as unions typically compromise entry-level positions to look after current members.

However, like most people on this board, I'm a hockey fan, and I love the NHL. The fact of the matter is, there's an enormous demand for a franchise (in any league) to own the rights to a larger-than-life prospect like Ovechkin or Crosby. If the NHL limits their ability to attract these young phenoms, they're going to end up losing out on future megastars.

We live in a world where people have the opportunity to earn what the market dictates their services are worth. I'm all for parity in the NHL, and I don't necessarily disagree with financial controls to maintain competitive balance. However, I do feel that it's dangerous to strictly limit the earning potential of a player like Crosby. Not because it's unfair; but because some other league is going to step up and make a better offer.

Any other thoughts about the consequences of these entry-level signing constraints?

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07-07-2005, 02:31 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt
I personally feel as though prospects like Ovechkin and Crosby are really getting the pooey end of the stick in this rumoured CBA framework. I suppose it's natural, as unions typically compromise entry-level positions to look after current members.

However, like most people on this board, I'm a hockey fan, and I love the NHL. The fact of the matter is, there's an enormous demand for a franchise (in any league) to own the rights to a larger-than-life prospect like Ovechkin or Crosby. If the NHL limits their ability to attract these young phenoms, they're going to end up losing out on future megastars.

We live in a world where people have the opportunity to earn what the market dictates their services are worth. I'm all for parity in the NHL, and I don't necessarily disagree with financial controls to maintain competitive balance. However, I do feel that it's dangerous to strictly limit the earning potential of a player like Crosby. Not because it's unfair; but because some other league is going to step up and make a better offer.

Any other thoughts about the consequences of these entry-level signing constraints?
I don't see why players just breaking into the League should be guaranteed millions. They should have to prove themselves first.

Also, Crosby won't be going over to Europe vs. playing in the NHL...that is just crazyness.

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07-07-2005, 03:11 AM
  #3
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This is one thing the Union would not have put up a fight about, they where more than happy to throw the rookies under the bus to save more money for themselves.

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07-07-2005, 03:16 AM
  #4
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Whatever happened to "earning your keep?" Let them prove themselves for a few years making the league average (or slightly over) before they are eligible for the big bucks.

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07-07-2005, 03:26 AM
  #5
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I think if the League wants a low salary for the rookies, than they should receive a bonus, depending on where they got drafted for example 1st overall pick gets 2 million. something similar to Baseball. I think that would be fair.

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07-07-2005, 03:30 AM
  #6
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It's how it should be. You get benefits for paying your dues to the league.

It takes away the one year wonder season as a rookie racking up several million and then living off that as you fall to obscurity.

If anything this should be putting a negative light on Crosby that he isn't about the game and is about the cash.

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07-07-2005, 03:30 AM
  #7
Vlad The Impaler
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Entry salaries are unfair, plain and simple. The whole NHL system has been unfair for a long time. They have these flawed restrictions on young players because of other flaws in the system. Now they are trying to fix these other flaws (they are doing an ok, but not great job at it) but they fail to fix it all and continue to screw rookies when the problem isn't there.

As I said in another thread, I expect that, if the CBA works the way it is reported so far, you will see several young players, prospects, etc leaving in the next 5 years for Europe.

The NHL defeating itself instead of fixing the problems.

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Old
07-07-2005, 04:41 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuppY
I think if the League wants a low salary for the rookies, than they should receive a bonus, depending on where they got drafted for example 1st overall pick gets 2 million. something similar to Baseball. I think that would be fair.
And teams in baseball now selectively pick a player not only on how good he is, but also on his signability...

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07-07-2005, 04:50 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt
I personally feel as though prospects like Ovechkin and Crosby are really getting the pooey end of the stick in this rumoured CBA framework. I suppose it's natural, as unions typically compromise entry-level positions to look after current members.

However, like most people on this board, I'm a hockey fan, and I love the NHL. The fact of the matter is, there's an enormous demand for a franchise (in any league) to own the rights to a larger-than-life prospect like Ovechkin or Crosby. If the NHL limits their ability to attract these young phenoms, they're going to end up losing out on future megastars.

We live in a world where people have the opportunity to earn what the market dictates their services are worth. I'm all for parity in the NHL, and I don't necessarily disagree with financial controls to maintain competitive balance. However, I do feel that it's dangerous to strictly limit the earning potential of a player like Crosby. Not because it's unfair; but because some other league is going to step up and make a better offer.

Any other thoughts about the consequences of these entry-level signing constraints?
There's only 1 NHL with 1 Stanley Cup to be won and all the perks that go with playing in the NHL.

If the talent do not want to be on THE center stage for hockey then oh well. If the player never played in the NHL, then we didn't miss anything...Prospect hype aside...

Proven players get paid. Not the sinkhole that is the hyped prospect that is soon to be bust 75% of the time...

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07-07-2005, 04:54 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
There's only 1 NHL with 1 Stanley Cup to be won and all the perks that go with playing in the NHL.

If the talent do not want to be on THE center stage for hockey then oh well. If the player never played in the NHL, then we didn't miss anything...Prospect hype aside...
You think Russian kids give a crap about "The Stanley Cup"?
You think Swedish kids give a crap about "The Stanley Cup"?

Gimme a break, the entry salary BS is just giving Russia a great excuse to build thier league up

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07-07-2005, 05:15 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NataSatan666
You think Russian kids give a crap about "The Stanley Cup"?
You think Swedish kids give a crap about "The Stanley Cup"?

Gimme a break, the entry salary BS is just giving Russia a great excuse to build thier league up
Unfortunately I agree with you, that's another thing that needs to be rectified.

The pride playing for the cup.

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07-07-2005, 06:17 AM
  #12
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This could be a really, really bad thing for the NHL.

If Sid decides not to play next season in NA, then it's going to set a huge precedent for all youngsters, especially the top draft picks, who can say "Well, if Sid did it, I can too!"

Maybe in the end it'll work out because a future player after Sid would tank overseas and save your favorite team some money.

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Old
07-07-2005, 06:23 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futurcorerock
This could be a really, really bad thing for the NHL.

If Sid decides not to play next season in NA, then it's going to set a huge precedent for all youngsters, especially the top draft picks, who can say "Well, if Sid did it, I can too!"

Maybe in the end it'll work out because a future player after Sid would tank overseas and save your favorite team some money.
If you think there is even a remote chance that Crosby will be playing overseas next season IF the NHL resumes you've got to be off your rocker... I don't care what the signing cap for rookies is, you know that the good players are going to get paid well and once the rooks get past their first deal they'll be fine. No chance Crosby (of all people) heads to Europe for what might be a few extra bucks in the short term rather than play in the NHL.

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07-07-2005, 06:33 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11
... few extra bucks in the short term rather than play in the NHL.
Well, 5 million will be 1/6 of max payroll. Imo, it's enough to pay for one player under cap. Add there taxes and you'll get about 2.5 or 3 million (that's how Frolov explained his contract with LA with all taxes). 3 million after taxes isn't so big. Ovechkin just asked the same contract from Dynamo but Avangard offered him more.

But, In Russia GMs want to introduce cap too, before players association that was recently organized become powerfull. Last rumors I've heard was about 15 million hard cap + 2 players can receive any salary over cap.

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07-07-2005, 06:46 AM
  #15
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it's this kind of arrogance

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzkriegs
There's only 1 NHL with 1 Stanley Cup to be won and all the perks that go with playing in the NHL.

If the talent do not want to be on THE center stage for hockey then oh well. If the player never played in the NHL, then we didn't miss anything...Prospect hype aside...

Proven players get paid. Not the sinkhole that is the hyped prospect that is soon to be bust 75% of the time...
that will lose some kids to the overseas leagues.

The NHL has become a 2nd rate league that still has the potential and ability to be a dominant and dignified league to play in.

this is the kind of side effect that a salary cap will have, but it's what the masses wanted.

Will Sid play in Europe? I don't think that he will, will Alexander Ovechkin or Malkin?? that could be a different story.

This is all going to be very interesting once this damn this is over.

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Old
07-07-2005, 06:52 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11
If you think there is even a remote chance that Crosby will be playing overseas next season IF the NHL resumes you've got to be off your rocker...
I almost agree. It's a very remote possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11
I don't care what the signing cap for rookies is, you know that the good players are going to get paid well and once the rooks get past their first deal they'll be fine.
This is for the most part incorrect in the old CBA (with exceptions of course). And it looks like it will get much worse in the next one.

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07-07-2005, 06:53 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Beauty, eh?
Whatever happened to "earning your keep?" Let them prove themselves for a few years making the league average (or slightly over) before they are eligible for the big bucks.
Works for me. It's not like the league is asking an 18-year old to survive on minimum wage. A top rookie will make over $1M with his bonuses. A million dollars. I don't see where this is unfair, that's higher than many proven NHL veterans make.

If it's not enough and they can get more in Europe, they have a decision to make. That's what life is all about -- making choices and living with the consequences.

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07-07-2005, 07:09 AM
  #18
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You know, everyone assumes Crosby is the next coming of Christ for goodness sakes. And everything is being made out so he can succeed, especially in a more "free-flowing" NHL. But what if the kid is a bust? What if others completely steal the spotlight? What if? What if? What if?

There is so much that can happen, that I think everyone should just adopt the "wait and see" attitude and see what Crosby does

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07-07-2005, 07:09 AM
  #19
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I'd love to know what GATORADE thinks of Crosby going to play for Lugano ??

Please, this is a joke. He knows he's going to play in the NHL and it may be rough for him the first few years (yeah, maybe a million per season, poor baby) but he'll get what he deserves after a while.

Personally, I believe this is just a stupid ploy by his agent Brisson.

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07-07-2005, 08:19 AM
  #20
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Frankly, let the "kids" bolt for Europe. Let Europe assume the risks of these players ending up as busts. I know I would rather see Crosby bust on some Euro team than bust on my team after promising him the moon and the stars. Once he proves himself as a player then he can come back to North America and ply his trade. Oh, he'll still have to sign for rookie maximum, but at least he'll be a proven quantity and worthy of the full rookie cap level.

One more thing about the European threat. The hockey scene over there cannot support big salaries. The rinks are too small and the tickets are too cheap to afford big salaries. How is a team that plays in an 8000 seat arena, with $20 tickets, playing a 40 game season, going to afford $3 million for an unproven rookie? Home ticket revenues for the team in question (the average Euro system IIRC) is $3.2 million. Now you're expecting the team in question to pay the other 19 guys on $200K? Its not realistic. The hockey system does not support that. Based on all the garbage you read I would have to hazard a guess that the Russian league is on the brink of economic collapse as it is. Talk about a disaparity between the haves and the have-nots, the Russian league is it in spades. The economy cannot support those salaries, so to think the leagues in question are a viable option is not realistic. Hockey players seem to only learn things the hard way, so let them go and wait for them to come crawling back.

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07-07-2005, 09:21 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender
Personally, I believe this is just a stupid ploy by his agent Brisson.
Exactly! Brisson knows the CBA isn't done & he's trying to create some leverage by negotiating with the richest team in Europe. He's trying to exert some influence on the negotiations and get the rookie cap bumped up at the 11th hour.

Just an agent trying to make his client the most money possible. What a concept.

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07-07-2005, 09:27 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt
I personally feel as though prospects like Ovechkin and Crosby are really getting the pooey end of the stick in this rumoured CBA framework. I suppose it's natural, as unions typically compromise entry-level positions to look after current members.

However, like most people on this board, I'm a hockey fan, and I love the NHL. The fact of the matter is, there's an enormous demand for a franchise (in any league) to own the rights to a larger-than-life prospect like Ovechkin or Crosby. If the NHL limits their ability to attract these young phenoms, they're going to end up losing out on future megastars.

We live in a world where people have the opportunity to earn what the market dictates their services are worth. I'm all for parity in the NHL, and I don't necessarily disagree with financial controls to maintain competitive balance. However, I do feel that it's dangerous to strictly limit the earning potential of a player like Crosby. Not because it's unfair; but because some other league is going to step up and make a better offer.

Any other thoughts about the consequences of these entry-level signing constraints?

Come on. These guys aren't Gretzky, yet they're hyped up to be even more than the Great One. Sorry, you earn your keep. Every place I've ever worked at, you get a starting salary and you work your way up. These two should be so lucky to be making millions by the time they turn 30. So they have to wait a few years before cashing in. Or, maybe they become the next Brian Lawton. However, I like the fact that you have to earn your contract. What I would like to see is performance bonuses to be ultimately done away with. If you need a bonus to motivate you to perform well, then how pathetic of a person you must be......

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07-07-2005, 09:30 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiebez
Exactly! Brisson knows the CBA isn't done & he's trying to create some leverage by negotiating with the richest team in Europe. He's trying to exert some influence on the negotiations and get the rookie cap bumped up at the 11th hour.
Perhaps, but I have to think the rookie salary cap was one of the first things agreed to a long time ago in these negotiations. I can't imagine that making a stand for entry level players is terribly high on the priority list of many veterans in the NHLPA.

While I agree some sort of rookie cap is necessary, I think four years is stupid and will hurt the league.

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Old
07-07-2005, 09:37 AM
  #24
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Is the rookie cap really that low, I mean didn't danny heatly buy a ferrari under the old rookie cap. I know this cap is rumored to be lower than the last one, so what does that mean Sid can't get a ferrari he has to settle for a lexus? Complaining about the rookie cap is wack. PROVE YOURSELF!!!!

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07-07-2005, 09:42 AM
  #25
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The NHL does not need players from Europe who don't dream of playing in the NHL and winning the Stanley Cup. That is part of the problem now, too many players who don't give a damn about the NHL or the Cup.

If young players in North America and Europe want to achieve their dreams, they have to prove their value by playing.

Pretty much the Entry-Level System is like an apprenticeship for 4-years with an established pay scale, nothing different than many other jobs in this world.

Pat Brisson and IMG want to be powerful like Scott Boras in baseball but something those hockey agents fail to understand, majority of NHLPA have no interest in their lost Thornton model or having draft picks make more than established and successful players.

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