HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Why I'm glad Crosby is leveraging against NHL entry-level limits.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-07-2005, 08:43 AM
  #26
Kaizer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Moscow , Russia
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 4,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
How is a team that plays in an 8000 seat arena, with $20 tickets, playing a 40 game season, going to afford $3 million for an unproven rookie? Home ticket revenues for the team in question (the average Euro system IIRC) is $3.2 million. Now you're expecting the team in question to pay the other 19 guys on $200K? Its not realistic. The hockey system does not support that. Based on all the garbage you read I would have to hazard a guess that the Russian league is on the brink of economic collapse as it is.
It's realistic. To understand that you need to understand first that hockey isn't business in Russia and it never was, and it never will be ... at least for a long time. When Dynamo GM was asked about how much money from tickets they made he answered that it's about 8-10% of their payroll. Dynamo is sponsored by goverment of Moscow cause Moscow wants to be represented by strong team to advertise it's name. Lokomotive is sponsored by region. It's the way to honor region and made name for it. All the same for other teams. The same about Metallurg. Everyone know Magnitogorsk for his team too, for it's hockey school and don't forget that budget of Chelyabinsk region (south of Ural mountains) consists on 3/4 from taxes from Magnitogorsk steel company. There are no revenues. It's about honor, proud and advertisment for cities and organizations. Last year Kazan signed all stars to win champinchip and celebrate 1000th year of the city. It's the best sample to understand it.

It's all my opinion and how I understand it.


Last edited by Kaizer: 07-07-2005 at 08:55 AM.
Kaizer is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 08:47 AM
  #27
Montrealer
Registered User
 
Montrealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chambly QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,461
vCash: 500
The only guys who are going to get offered more than $850,000 by Euro teams are superstars (i.e. maybe one or two a year) - so if they truly want to go over to Europe and miss out on potential sponsorship monies (which would more than make up for the salary differential, at least until their fifth year in the NHL), well, good luck to them!

Remember, they get the same four years of entry level salary up until 25... so would you take:

18 - $850,000 + bonus + sponsorship versus $3,000,000
19 - $850,000 + bonus + sponsorship versus $3,000,000
20 - $850,000 + bonus + sponsorship versus $3,000,000
21 - $850,000 + bonus + sponsorship versus $3,000,000
22 - $5,000,000 + bonus + sponsorship versus $3,000,000
23 - $5,000,000 + bonus + sponsorship versus $3,000,000
24 - $6,000,000 + bonus + sponsorship versus $3,000,000
25 - $6,000,000 + bonus + sponsorship versus $3,000,000

I know which I would choose in a heartbeat.

Montrealer is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 08:51 AM
  #28
barnburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 567
vCash: 500
If you are going to have fiscal sanity - you must put constraints on rookie contracts. If you allow them to be inflated - it just raises the bar for the
veterans also.
Pay the money where it is earned. The veterans have proven what they can do - pay them accordingly. Let the rookies prove themselves.
If they want to go play elsewhere - nobody is begging them to play in the nhl.
It's a priviledge - not a right.

barnburner is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 09:38 AM
  #29
Resolute
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurcorerock
This could be a really, really bad thing for the NHL.

If Sid decides not to play next season in NA, then it's going to set a huge precedent for all youngsters, especially the top draft picks, who can say "Well, if Sid did it, I can too!"

Maybe in the end it'll work out because a future player after Sid would tank overseas and save your favorite team some money.
The Lemming theory only works if there are enough teams in Europe who can afford to pay.

There isnt.

If Crosby wants to chase the money, that is his right. Personally, I think it is a rather desperate pressure tactic by Crosby and his agent, and if he does sign, I wish him well in Switzerland, but I wont give a rats ass about what he does there, and I will look forward to the day when he comes back to North America and is still stuck under the $850,000 cap as a rookie.

Resolute is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 09:43 AM
  #30
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beauty, eh?
Whatever happened to "earning your keep?" Let them prove themselves for a few years making the league average (or slightly over) before they are eligible for the big bucks.
Earning your keep? Hah.

What ever happened to supply and demand.
There is one Sidney Crosby. The NHL is going to do everything in its power to make sure that the all ready pent up demand gets even more pent up.

And yet they want him to make less than Darren freakin' McCarty.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 09:46 AM
  #31
chiavsfan
Registered User
 
chiavsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 4,426
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Earning your keep? Hah.

What ever happened to supply and demand.
There is one Sidney Crosby. The NHL is going to do everything in its power to make sure that the all ready pent up demand gets even more pent up.

And yet they want him to make less than Darren freakin' McCarty.
Gee, that's too dang bad. I would gladly trade my 30 thousand dollars a year for 850 grand plus Crosby's endorsements. Excuse me if I don't cry a river

chiavsfan is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 09:47 AM
  #32
barnburner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 567
vCash: 500
I'm no fan of McCarty - but at least he has paid his dues, and proven himself.
Crosby, regardless of his huge potential - is still just that. Lindros was going to be the unstoppable future of the nhl too...

barnburner is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 09:56 AM
  #33
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Frankly, let the "kids" bolt for Europe. Let Europe assume the risks of these players ending up as busts. I know I would rather see Crosby bust on some Euro team than bust on my team after promising him the moon and the stars. Once he proves himself as a player then he can come back to North America and ply his trade. Oh, he'll still have to sign for rookie maximum, but at least he'll be a proven quantity and worthy of the full rookie cap level.
If the NHL wants to be considered a the best league in the world, it shouldn't embrace a system that has its best young players considering other options.

We have a salary cap in the league. How much do you think a team is going to offer Crosby. the most hyped NHL prospect since Eric Lindros?
IMO, even without a rookie cap, I'd offer him about $1.5 Million a year, tops, with some bonuses taking it to two million or so.

Now he's the best prospect in more than 10 years. So there's not a huge risk.
My guess is that the other 269 guys drafted this year probably won't make their NHL teams right away. They'll sign next year, or the year, after, if ever.
And by that point, teams will have a much better idea of who their players are and how much potential they'll have.
Therefore, there is much less risk involved.

I mean, if Crosby busts, he busts.
But I don't think two many teams in the NHL are worried about that possibility.

You've got your cap. What's your problem. Are you upset that the players aren't paid $15 an hour, or something?

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 09:58 AM
  #34
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnburner
I'm no fan of McCarty - but at least he has paid his dues, and proven himself.
Crosby, regardless of his huge potential - is still just that. Lindros was going to be the unstoppable future of the nhl too...
Who cares if he's paid his dues.

Sidney Crosby, in his first season, will sell more hockey tickets for his employer than McCarty did his whole career.

We just had a year's lockout over money.
This is all about money.

Be grateful for those moments in the Olympics and playoffs when you just know that the players are playing for the pride of winning.

Otherwise, it's all about money. And Crosby will make a lot of it for his NHL team.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 09:59 AM
  #35
Montrealer
Registered User
 
Montrealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chambly QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
If the NHL wants to be considered a the best league in the world, it shouldn't embrace a system that has its best young players considering other options.

We have a salary cap in the league. How much do you think a team is going to offer Crosby. the most hyped NHL prospect since Eric Lindros?
IMO, even without a rookie cap, I'd offer him about $1.5 Million a year, tops, with some bonuses taking it to two million or so.

Now he's the best prospect in more than 10 years. So there's not a huge risk.
My guess is that the other 269 guys drafted this year probably won't make their NHL teams right away. They'll sign next year, or the year, after, if ever.
And by that point, teams will have a much better idea of who their players are and how much potential they'll have.
Therefore, there is much less risk involved.

I mean, if Crosby busts, he busts.
But I don't think two many teams in the NHL are worried about that possibility.

You've got your cap. What's your problem. Are you upset that the players aren't paid $15 an hour, or something?
Since he is not going to be sold into slavery, I fail to see the problem here.

Either he comes into the NHL and makes a crapload more money over his career, or he goes into Europe for fast cash now and less money over his career.

It's his choice.

I see absolutely no problem with this, and I can't even begin to understand why anyone would - unless they are chomping at the bit to attack the new CBA.

Montrealer is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:00 AM
  #36
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiavsfan
Gee, that's too dang bad. I would gladly trade my 30 thousand dollars a year for 850 grand plus Crosby's endorsements. Excuse me if I don't cry a river
Yeah, well if you were one of the best in the world in a competitive, lucrative industry, maybe you'd have a point.

Nobody's asking anyone to feel sorry for anyone.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:01 AM
  #37
HockeyCritter
Registered User
 
HockeyCritter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
Perhaps, but I have to think the rookie salary cap was one of the first things agreed to a long time ago in these negotiations. I can't imagine that making a stand for entry level players is terribly high on the priority list of many veterans in the NHLPA.

While I agree some sort of rookie cap is necessary, I think four years is stupid and will hurt the league.
My understanding is that entry level contracts will be four years for this CBA only ----- it's a way to reset contract values to bring them more in line with the new economic landscape. Veteran players with top heavy contracts will be lost through attrition as they retire and smaller contracts will be brought in through entry level contracts ----- I fully expect this point to be renegotated in six years when the CBA comes up for renewal.

HockeyCritter is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:03 AM
  #38
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnburner
If you are going to have fiscal sanity - you must put constraints on rookie contracts. If you allow them to be inflated - it just raises the bar for the veterans also.
B.S.
With a salary cap, there is NO CONCERN about the spiral effect.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:04 AM
  #39
Montrealer
Registered User
 
Montrealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chambly QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Yeah, well if you were one of the best in the world in a competitive, lucrative industry, maybe you'd have a point.

Nobody's asking anyone to feel sorry for anyone.
So why are you feeling so sorry for Crosby?

Montrealer is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:06 AM
  #40
missK
Registered User
 
missK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lightning country
Country: United States
Posts: 2,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
If the NHL wants to be considered a the best league in the world, it shouldn't embrace a system that has its best young players considering other options.
It has been stated many times that the NHLPA threw the Rookies under the bus, not the NHL.

And I agree, if a player can make more money elsewhere, whether they are a rookie or not and they decide to not play in the NHL because of it, they have to live with that decision.

IMO no one is going to stop watching the NHL or stop going to games because Sid leaves for Europe (other than maybe Sid's parents).

missK is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:08 AM
  #41
MePutPuckInNet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,385
vCash: 500
Seems to me that a lot of people are missing the fact that the proposed ELS system is going to limit the entire rookie salary/bonus framework.

A performance bonus is only received after a player PERFORMS.

In my opinion, if a player PROVES that he's capable, by actually going out and scoring 50 goals in a season [just as an example], then why the hell shouldn't he be compensated with performance bonus money regardless of his age or status in the league?

How is a 50 goal season in your rookie year any more or any less important than it would be after you've been in the league 10 years?

And for God sakes, people - how many NHL players actually hit the 30-40-50 goals in a single season mark? If they do, how can you argue that they haven't "earned" it?

...I just don't understand.....

MePutPuckInNet is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:09 AM
  #42
syc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not Europe
Posts: 1,996
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiavsfan
Gee, that's too dang bad. I would gladly trade my 30 thousand dollars a year for 850 grand plus Crosby's endorsements. Excuse me if I don't cry a river
So if you could make 90K a year with another company would you switch jobs? YES. Welcome to reality enjoy your stay.

Whats so bad about getting as much as you can, don't we live in a capitilist society? Good for him, if the NHL won't show him the money then he should look elsewhere. 3 Years in Europe might even be good for him.

syc is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:13 AM
  #43
Montrealer
Registered User
 
Montrealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chambly QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet
Seems to me that a lot of people are missing the fact that the proposed ELS system is going to limit the entire rookie salary/bonus framework.

A performance bonus is only received after a player PERFORMS.

In my opinion, if a player PROVES that he's capable, by actually going out and scoring 50 goals in a season [just as an example], then why the hell shouldn't he be compensated with performance bonus money regardless of his age or status in the league?

How is a 50 goal season in your rookie year any more or any less important than it would be after you've been in the league 10 years?

And for God sakes, people - how many NHL players actually hit the 30-40-50 goals in a single season mark? If they do, how can you argue that they haven't "earned" it?

...I just don't understand.....

Because the Joe Thornton model completely contravened the previous CBA's attempt to limit rookie salaries by using performance bonuses to provide huge balloon payments.

Montrealer is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:16 AM
  #44
chiavsfan
Registered User
 
chiavsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 4,426
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
Yeah, well if you were one of the best in the world in a competitive, lucrative industry, maybe you'd have a point.

Nobody's asking anyone to feel sorry for anyone.

BS, you are asking me to feel sorry for a guy who wont get millions of dollars when he hasn't done one thing to prove himself in his "job" in the NHL.

chiavsfan is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:30 AM
  #45
Macman
Registered User
 
Macman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCritter
My understanding is that entry level contracts will be four years for this CBA only ----- it's a way to reset contract values to bring them more in line with the new economic landscape. Veteran players with top heavy contracts will be lost through attrition as they retire and smaller contracts will be brought in through entry level contracts ----- I fully expect this point to be renegotated in six years when the CBA comes up for renewal.
Everything in this CBA is for this CBA only.

Macman is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:32 AM
  #46
HockeyCritter
Registered User
 
HockeyCritter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,656
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman
Everything in this CBA is for this CBA only.
Some people seem to forget that.

HockeyCritter is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:36 AM
  #47
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by missK
I
IMO no one is going to stop watching the NHL or stop going to games because Sid leaves for Europe (other than maybe Sid's parents).
That's not the forward thinking the NHL needs.

It's not enough to simply hold ground.

The NHL must generate more fans, and Crosby/Ovechkin will help.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:38 AM
  #48
A Good Flying Bird*
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiavsfan
BS, you are asking me to feel sorry for a guy who wont get millions of dollars when he hasn't done one thing to prove himself in his "job" in the NHL.
Where?
I don't feel sorry for any NHLer.

A Good Flying Bird* is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 10:42 AM
  #49
Montrealer
Registered User
 
Montrealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chambly QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
That's not the forward thinking the NHL needs.

It's not enough to simply hold ground.

The NHL must generate more fans, and Crosby/Ovechkin will help.
I still have grave doubt Croby or Ovechkin would snub the NHL, even if they can only make $850,000+ the first four years of their young careers.

Montrealer is offline  
Old
07-07-2005, 11:22 AM
  #50
FlyerFan
Registered User
 
FlyerFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealer
I still have grave doubt Croby or Ovechkin would snub the NHL, even if they can only make $850,000+ the first four years of their young careers.

You play where you're wanted. How can it be argued that the NHL wants Crosby or Ovechkin at 850k for 4 years in their league more than a competing league thats willing to pay 10m for 3 years?

FlyerFan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.