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Derek Stepan Negotiations (9/19-Dreger: "Unlikely" Stepan signs before season opens)

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:12 AM
  #801
Ola
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pld- Agreed for sure.

I don't think Slats necessary is low-balling Stepan to the extent its disrespectful, but Step deserves more than we can afford. Preferebly, Slats can open up a little room for Step.

In the end, I agree with most of what the people who are down on Stepan is writing, but I don't agree with the conclusion. And I think its here you make a good point. I agree that Stepan should not be considered to be a 70 pts player. I agree that he hasn't proven himself in the PO's, he has been utter invisible every single time we really needed him to step up.

But, he isn't asking for 5m per for a bridge contract or 7m per for a 7 year contract. If he was a 70 pts player proven in the PO's, anything less than what RNH just got is a low ball offer.

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09-20-2013, 11:20 AM
  #802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I have seen numerous posters make this comment.

Stepan is not looking for a big contract because he had a good 48 game run.

Stepan is looking for a big contract because he's gotten better and better for the last three seasons he's played.

Came in as a rookie and posted 45 points in 82 games. Followed that uo with 51 points in 82 games and got even BETTER with 44 points in 48 games (75 point pace)

Contracts are not given out based on the last seasons worth of production. It's the body of work that determines what Stepan should get.

Stepan's body of work is greater than a 48 games.

So please, lets stop talking like he's looking for this contract based on last season. Because if that WERE the case, he'd be more than justified in looking for more than 5 million per season.
I agree. Kadri got 2.9 mil based off one season. Steps demands aren't un reasonable (if the 3.5 million number is true as Im kind of losing track of who wants what and what was offered). It just sucks it is dragging through pre season.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:34 AM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Mrpuck View Post
What if there is a move to be made at the deadline that would cost us @2.5mil? A rental player for a playoff push?
If we moved Powe/Asham etc. and just give in to Stepan at say 6yr/30mil. then that move at the deadline is gone.

That's the benefit right now to giving him the bridge deal.
So they can trade for another Clowe like player, negative benefit in terms of future

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
If Stepan gets a bridge deal and proves to be a legit 1st line center on any team, we will get to offset even more UFA years with a couple of RFA ones. A long term deal now would allow us to get 3 or 4 years into UFA. A long term deal in 2 years allows us to potentially get 5 or 6.

If he doesn't prove to be a legit 1st line center, then we will know that better in two years and pay him accordingly.
If he proves to be a legit fist line center on any team he's getting over 6M if not more like over 7M cap hit, all that so they could say around 1.5 to 2M cap hit right now?

The only benefit is so they have more space next off-season when they have 13 free agents to resign or replace, as we've seen the more cap space the Rangers have the worse they use it.

This bridge plan for Stepan based on leverage was just a poor plan form the get go in terms of long term thinking.

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09-20-2013, 11:37 AM
  #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I have seen numerous posters make this comment.

Stepan is not looking for a big contract because he had a good 48 game run.

Stepan is looking for a big contract because he's gotten better and better for the last three seasons he's played.

Came in as a rookie and posted 45 points in 82 games. Followed that uo with 51 points in 82 games and got even BETTER with 44 points in 48 games (75 point pace)

Contracts are not given out based on the last seasons worth of production. It's the body of work that determines what Stepan should get.

Stepan's body of work is greater than a 48 games.

So please, lets stop talking like he's looking for this contract based on last season. Because if that WERE the case, he'd be more than justified in looking for more than 5 million per season.
Thank you, I was trying to say that as well.

That is why the clause in the CBA does not make sense. Stepan a player who's played in every game for the past three season has less leverage than Hagelin who has 1 and 3/4 season under his belt, just because Hagelin signed his first NHL contract at a later age.

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09-20-2013, 11:41 AM
  #805
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Capgeek has the Rangers with 2.18 million in cap space.

Lets say, for math convenience sake, that Stepan is signed for 2 years, 3.18 million average.

That puts us only 1 million in the hole, with 15 forwards and 8 dmen on the roster.

Here's where it gets tricky. Whatever players we send dwn (Powe, ect) have residual cap hits over a certain number. Kristo has a high cap hit of 1.3 million. Fast is 900k. Lindberg is 760k.

In theory, we could place one of Hagelin or Callahan on IR for temporary cap space. Johnson shouldn't cost anything to send down. 600k cap hit. 8th defenseman. We don't really need an 8th defenseman with Syvret in the minors.

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09-20-2013, 11:43 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Capgeek has the Rangers with 2.18 million in cap space.

Lets say, for math convenience sake, that Stepan is signed for 2 years, 3.18 million average.

That puts us only 1 million in the hole, with 15 forwards and 8 dmen on the roster.

Here's where it gets tricky. Whatever players we send dwn (Powe, ect) have residual cap hits over a certain number. Kristo has a high cap hit of 1.3 million. Fast is 900k. Lindberg is 760k.

In theory, we could place one of Hagelin or Callahan on IR for temporary cap space. Johnson shouldn't cost anything to send down. 600k cap hit. 8th defenseman. We don't really need an 8th defenseman with Syvret in the minors.
Kristo, Fast, and Lindberg should all be on two way contracts right? So I don't think they end up with a "residual cap hit" if they're playing in Hartford. I believe that only applies to players on 1 way contracts

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09-20-2013, 11:45 AM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Kristo, Fast, and Lindberg should all be on two way contracts right? So I don't think they end up with a "residual cap hit" if they're playing in Hartford. I believe that only applies to players on 1 way contracts
That's what I mean.

We have 15 one way forwards. 13 excluding Cally and Hagelin. If you replace a guy like Powe with a 1 mil hit for a guy like Kristo with a 1.3 mil hit, you add 300k plus whatever Powe costs us playing in the minors.

Simply trading Pyatt would solve a lot of problems here. We could likely give Stepan the full 3.5 million in that scenario.

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09-20-2013, 11:47 AM
  #808
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I'm so sick of this.

Cut Pyatt, take that money, give it to Stepan, get him in training camp.

Edit: Wow its really time for me to change my avatar.

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09-20-2013, 11:51 AM
  #809
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This is all irrelevant if Sather is holding out for reasons other than the salary cap.

I understand keeping Pyatt while two wingers are out. But if they're truly out, we should be able to finagle the cap space to fit in Stepan until they're back.

We acquired Pouliot, who fits this new system much better than Pyatt. Trade Pyatt to Vancouver for a 7th rounder.

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09-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
What people actually don't realize, is the fact that even Richards at last years level, (a 60 point pace over 82 games) is still better than nearly ever 3C in the league.

If we get the Richards from the prior year, the center depth is unreal.

Not buying out Richards has nothing to do with Stepan not signing. Again the Rangers are keep and continuing the precedent they have set with players like this.

If we start handing out big, long term contracts to guys who play well over 41 games, then that will set a new precedent for guys like Kreider, Fast, Lindberg, Miller, McIlrath and will handcuff us.
I beg to differ, Richards was **** last year. 60 point pace blah blah blah. He was relegated to the 4th line and then benched for Kris ****ing Newbury, Kris ****ing Newbury. He scored a bunch of those points at the end of the season against teams out of it. And if anyone's going to use the "it's the coach's fault" argument I'm going to use the same excuse with the Kreider debate from last season when everyone got on Torts: he didn't earn it.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:55 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Capgeek has the Rangers with 2.18 million in cap space.

Lets say, for math convenience sake, that Stepan is signed for 2 years, 3.18 million average.

That puts us only 1 million in the hole, with 15 forwards and 8 dmen on the roster.

Here's where it gets tricky. Whatever players we send dwn (Powe, ect) have residual cap hits over a certain number. Kristo has a high cap hit of 1.3 million. Fast is 900k. Lindberg is 760k.

In theory, we could place one of Hagelin or Callahan on IR for temporary cap space. Johnson shouldn't cost anything to send down. 600k cap hit. 8th defenseman. We don't really need an 8th defenseman with Syvret in the minors.
This is true, but Pyatt, and Johnson would cover it, or Pyatt, Powe, Kristo, and Johnson. It's easily resolved. If we were sitting at 13F and 7D it would be tricky.

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09-20-2013, 11:57 AM
  #812
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Pouliot ($1.300m) / Derick Brassard ($3.200m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Kreider ($1.325m) / Derek Stepan ($3.500m) / Zuccarello ($1.150m)
Hrivik ($0.685m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Pyatt ($1.550m) / Dominic Moore ($1.000m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)

Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
John Moore ($0.965m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Michael Del Zotto ($2.550m)
Justin Falk ($0.975m)

Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)

Buried: Arron Asham ($0.075m)
Buried: Darroll Powe ($0.142m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,616,667; BONUSES: $782,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $465,833

Johnson demoted no matter how good of friends he is with Nash
Asham, Powe demoted
Stepan signed 3.5M
Maybe not the fairest keeping Hrivik up but he has a friendlier cap hit and I don't think he played poorly.

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09-20-2013, 11:58 AM
  #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
I beg to differ, Richards was **** last year. 60 point pace blah blah blah. He was relegated to the 4th line and then benched for Kris ****ing Newbury, Kris ****ing Newbury. He scored a bunch of those points at the end of the season against teams out of it. And if anyone's going to use the "it's the coach's fault" argument I'm going to use the same excuse with the Kreider debate from last season when everyone got on Torts: he didn't earn it.
So your going to ignore facts just so you can bloviate about Richards sucking?

We know that, but what that poster said isn't far from the truth, and not buying out Richards has exactly zero to do with the Stepan situation.

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09-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #814
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Seems like with those stats we could keep our choice of Hrivik, Fasth, Lindberg, but couldn't keep Kristo.

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09-20-2013, 12:01 PM
  #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I have seen numerous posters make this comment.

Stepan is not looking for a big contract because he had a good 48 game run.

Stepan is looking for a big contract because he's gotten better and better for the last three seasons he's played.

Came in as a rookie and posted 45 points in 82 games. Followed that uo with 51 points in 82 games and got even BETTER with 44 points in 48 games (75 point pace)

Contracts are not given out based on the last seasons worth of production. It's the body of work that determines what Stepan should get.

Stepan's body of work is greater than a 48 games.

So please, lets stop talking like he's looking for this contract based on last season. Because if that WERE the case, he'd be more than justified in looking for more than 5 million per season.
That isn't what I was intending with my post. What I meant more was that if Stepan proves to be a legit number one center, meaning consistently around the 80 point mark, then I would rather have him on a 2 year bridge now so we could sign him longterm later and keep him until he's 32, as opposed to signing him longterm now and only getting to keep him until he's 30.

In other words, the benefit of the bridge deal is about keeping the player as long as possible, all money aside.

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09-20-2013, 12:04 PM
  #816
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Kristo has an $875,000 salary. $850,000 in performance bonuses. The Rangers can use the bonus cushion to give them flexibility. Kristo will need to play many NHL games and produce to reach his bonuses. If he reaches those bonuses,then the Rangers have a productive player. Lindberg is $675,000 base salary. $75,000 in bonuses. Fasth is $900,000. No bonuses. The Rangers are being very coy. Nobody really knows when Callahan and Hagelin are returning. They haven't put any players on waivers. They are keeping their cards hidden. They are given Oates any insight and they shouldn't.

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09-20-2013, 12:05 PM
  #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
So your going to ignore facts just so you can bloviate about Richards sucking?

We know that, but what that poster said isn't far from the truth, and not buying out Richards has exactly zero to do with the Stepan situation.
I'm not talking about Richards not being bought out and its relation with Stepan, I was addressing the statement he made about us having insane center depth. You can change the coach and change the system but you can't change a player on the decline, who's skating and legs will only get worse as time goes on.

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09-20-2013, 12:07 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Seems like with those stats we could keep our choice of Hrivik, Fasth, Lindberg, but couldn't keep Kristo.
I think the only hold up would be they can not carry and extra forward for the begging games on the road, then again cap ceiling is calculated daily(I think) so I'm pretty sure if they got through the first two games without injury they could bring in a replacement.

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09-20-2013, 12:09 PM
  #819
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As RB pointed out, Kristo has bonuses. His actual hit isn't likely to be $1.3m.

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09-20-2013, 12:09 PM
  #820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
I'm not talking about Richards not being bought out and its relation with Stepan, I was addressing the statement he made about us having insane center depth. You can change the coach and change the system but you can't change a player on the decline, who's skating and legs will only get worse as time goes on.
Except we do have good center depth and if Richards produces even slightly better than last year it's even better.

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09-20-2013, 12:11 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
As RB pointed out, Kristo has bonuses. His actual hit isn't likely to be $1.3m.
Even better

So it's not that they do not have the space to go to 3.5M for Stepan, they are just trying to use their leverage to prove a point. That they know they have it and they are willing to use it to worsen their teams chances of winning early on in the season.

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09-20-2013, 12:14 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Even better

So it's not that they do not have the space to go to 3.5M for Stepan, they are just trying to use their leverage to prove a point. That they know they have it and they are willing to use it to worsen their teams chances of winning early on in the season.
They're using it because that's organizational policy, and it's justified for a lot of reasons. It's not about proving a point. Stepans situation doesn't exist in a vacuum.

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09-20-2013, 12:28 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
They're using it because that's organizational policy, and it's justified for a lot of reasons. It's not about proving a point. Stepans situation doesn't exist in a vacuum.
An organization policy that has a player of Stepan's caliber holding out to start a season should probably be changed. There are two non arbitration eligible RFA left, Stepan and Franson. The leafs literally do not have the cap space, the Rangers do. Every other team in the league with players in that situation were able to get it done even if they paid a bit more than they wanted.

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09-20-2013, 12:38 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
An organization policy that has a player of Stepan's caliber holding out to start a season should probably be changed. There are two non arbitration eligible RFA left, Stepan and Franson. The leafs literally do not have the cap space, the Rangers do. Every other team in the league with players in that situation were able to get it done even if they paid a bit more than they wanted.
The caliber of player has zero to do with this. Last years Norris Trophy winner missed the first part of the year on the same kind of issue.

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09-20-2013, 12:39 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
I beg to differ, Richards was **** last year. 60 point pace blah blah blah. He was relegated to the 4th line and then benched for Kris ****ing Newbury, Kris ****ing Newbury. He scored a bunch of those points at the end of the season against teams out of it. And if anyone's going to use the "it's the coach's fault" argument I'm going to use the same excuse with the Kreider debate from last season when everyone got on Torts: he didn't earn it.
Richards numbers weren't that bad. We know he didn't play well. But the fact that the clown coach put him on the 4th line means nothing especially since that decision maker is gone. Bounce back year for Richie.

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