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Mack vs Jones/Drouin, etc

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09-15-2013, 07:17 PM
  #1
ChrisNI
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Mack vs Jones/Drouin, etc

So after camp and the B/W game people have seen Mack vs NHL calibre players.

Has anyone kept tabs on other camps/preseason games with the top prospects of this past draft?

How does Mack stack up vs Jones, Drouin, Barkov, etc?

It's still such an early stage to be comparing s nothing concrete to go but surely there's some sort of comparison.

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09-15-2013, 07:27 PM
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Avsboy
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Jones apparently looks good in Nashville.

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09-15-2013, 07:28 PM
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Lonewolfe2015
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I believe TB fans have been raving about Drouin, rightfully so. Jones has been practicing with Weber and is expected to be given the top pairing LD role.

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09-15-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I believe TB fans have been raving about Drouin, rightfully so. Jones has been practicing with Weber and is expected to be given the top pairing LD role.
Josi is back with Weber. Jones has been with Klein. Trotz hyped that up before camp but Jones hasn't been with Weber.

Mack and his line mates definitely have to develop some chemistry though. McGinn looks good, and so does Downie, but Downie still needs to get his timing back since he's barely played a real game in a year and a half.


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09-15-2013, 07:39 PM
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tucker3434
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Well if I had to guess, I'd say everyone looks excellent. It's camp. Everybody looks good, and if they don't, they lie.

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09-15-2013, 08:04 PM
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tigervixxxen
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Thought Drouin was getting tried at center from what I read. I know that was just one game or whatever but doesn't sound like he'll start on a line with Stamkos.

Last I heard they held Barkov out of rookie camp due to his shoulder. Haven't read anything about main camp though.

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09-15-2013, 08:05 PM
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I wouldn't be shocked if Nichushkin has the most points of the 2013 draft class this season.

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09-15-2013, 09:25 PM
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Mystic MacK
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I think it's an interesting comparison, and I think it will probably take at least a half a season for things to settle, and the variance to lose it's effect.

Nate hasn't really seemed to have his talent shine through so far in the early parts of camp, and if there was one critique of his game prior to being drafted it was his ability to play a style other than he wants to. I'm not sure if that's coming into play right now with how Roy wants the team to play, because there's only limited info on that, but it will be interesting to see how it develops.

Plus there's the natural learning curve coming from junior to the NHL, but his speed alone hasn't seemed to carry his play, and that's what he's used to. We'll see how quick of a learner he is, because that's really what it comes down to at this age. It's a different game, and what you're used to working doesn't usually work.

As for Drouin, Barkov, and Nichuskin, it will be interesting to see how they learn. I'm surprised Drouin's not clicking or not getting time with Stamkos. I actually thought he'd have the quickest start, and fastest adaptation due to his smarts, and how good a player Stamkos was.

All these guys were really close for a reason, and it might take a really long time to truly find out who was better than whom in this draft. Nichuskin's a hit or miss kind of guy and I don't think his ceiling is really that high either because he's somewhat of a one trick pony, but if the other top guys in Mack, Drouin, and Jones don't really hit their high end projections, a guy like Barkov might really step to the front of the class if he gels in the NHL, because he has everything.

That said, IMO Nate has the best chance at putting it all together, and recaching the highest ceiling, and he was the player to be selected first overall from a BPA standpoint at the time. No matter how it plays out.

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09-15-2013, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
As for Drouin, Barkov, and Nichuskin, it will be interesting to see how they learn. I'm surprised Drouin's not clicking or not getting time with Stamkos. I actually thought he'd have the quickest start, and fastest adaptation due to his smarts, and how good a player Stamkos was.
I haven't been following Drouin's training camp but I'm not surprised he hasn't been used as Stamkos' winger. MSL is still world class player and they aren't going to ruin the best duo in hockey for an 18yr old. What I am surprised is that Drouin is being deployed as a center. Did not see that coming, he does have the tools to succeed there tho.

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09-15-2013, 09:52 PM
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Mystic MacK
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Originally Posted by Duchene2MacKinnon View Post
I haven't been following Drouin's training camp but I'm not surprised he hasn't been used as Stamkos' winger. MSL is still world class player and they aren't going to ruin the best duo in hockey for an 18yr old. What I am surprised is that Drouin is being deployed as a center. Did not see that coming, he does have the tools to succeed there tho.
I hadn't seen Drouin was getting tried at center. That's a mistake IMO. He's just too small to be a full time center in the NHL. The only undersized centers like that in the NHL are gritty ones in 2nd or 3rd line roles, he's more of a patient read the play skill player. The D zone assignments will just take too much away from his game.

I always feel like teams and coaches are WAY too lossy goosy with young player positions, even from LW to RW. To me it comes down to are are they fitting in and comfortable in their natural position against NHL'ers, or should you send them down. Not should I put them in another position vs sending them down.

It just hurts their game too much IMO if they're undersized and rely that heavily on a pure skill game. Just use them the way they've garnered their success. Don't try to force them into something else because their natural position isn't a natural fit.

This doesn't go for all players like lesser or smaller centers that can be shifted to the wing like Tanguay, but smaller guys always seem to end up back on the wing even when they're tried at center, and it's just a waste of time in development IMO and an unnecessary risk to confuse them and stunt their development.

There seems to be some kind of weird hybrid between the old school philosophy and new school one, and I don't think it's a good approach for kids these days. In the old days, the youngsters almost never made the team after the draft, and when they did a year or two later they were played where ever they fit, and not necessarily given top six minutes.

These days, both forwards and D seem to make the teams a lot after the draft, but they're still shifted to the off side, or in different situations than the one that's the most comfortable for them. It just seems like they underestimate the stunt in growth in can have playing a young player in an unnatural situation, even if it seems to be ok for a short period of time. That's just variance coming into play. They shouldn't be taking those risks on high draft picks like that.

IMO, the determining factor should always be do they look comfortable in their natural top line, or top four role on their natural side, or should you send them down to play in their natural top line and top pairing role.


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09-15-2013, 10:04 PM
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avsfan89
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I thought TBL signed Filpulla to be the 2nd line center. Yes GMs please draft players just to only change their position to somethin which they hadn't been known to be successful for..makes sense

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09-15-2013, 10:05 PM
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ChrisNI
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Thanks for the insight!

Being from the Toronto area I don't get to hear much about how anyone else is doing.

It's nice to be able to keep tabs on this years draft class as anyone of the top 4/5 could have gone top. It's good to see where we stand. Hopefully we get another duchene/oreilly draft class result!

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09-15-2013, 10:10 PM
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Avs_19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
I thought TBL signed Filpulla to be the 2nd line center. Yes GMs please draft players just to only change their position to somethin which they hadn't been known to be successful for..makes sense
That's what a lot of people wanted the Avs to do with Duchene. I think the Canes tried it with Skinner as well but then moved him back to wing.

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09-15-2013, 10:55 PM
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tigervixxxen
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Just so y'all don't think I'm insane with the Drouin at center thing.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...-roles/2141446
http://tbo.com/sports/lightning/bolt...tion-20130912/

Quote:
“In junior, he played on the wing, but he was with a talented player in (No. 1 overall pick) Nate MacKinnon, so I think that was the right fit for them in that situation,’’ Lightning head coach Jon Cooper siad. “Maybe the right fit in our organization is the wing, maybe it’s at center. So, we are giving him a look in both spots just to see where he can fit. He’s not the only one we are moving around, but he comes with the third overall tag on him and a microscope on him, so we’ll see how he looks.’’


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09-15-2013, 11:01 PM
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Hans Landaskog
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That's what a lot of people wanted the Avs to do with Duchene. I think the Canes tried it with Skinner as well but then moved him back to wing.
It's one thing to have a center from junior move to wing, it's a whole other can of worms having a winger move to center.

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09-15-2013, 11:12 PM
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Duchene2MacKinnon
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I hadn't seen Drouin was getting tried at center. That's a mistake IMO. He's just too small to be a full time center in the NHL. The only undersized centers like that in the NHL are gritty ones in 2nd or 3rd line roles, he's more of a patient read the play skill player. The D zone assignments will just take too much away from his game.
I don't necessarily disagree with you about coaches switching positions(I've been against the ones from the avs side) but Drouin can succeed at the C spot. Ennis who's as small as they come has been playing great in the centre position as has Kane. So, small players don't have to be super gritty to thrive there. I think you need to be elusive,smart and have great vision to play center Drouin has that in spades.

On the defensive side of things it can get tricky but we've seen Datsyuk/Zetterberg just absolutely shut down the best players in the game without having to play the body all the time. In there cases they haven't even been sacrificing their offensive numbers. NOw can Drouin emulate them, nobody can know without giving it a test run. I'm not even saying this is a good idea but it's not bad at all.

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09-15-2013, 11:54 PM
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Dgill
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I would just like to mention before Drouin entered the Q he was a center. He was only shifted to the wing because of Nate.

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09-16-2013, 08:01 AM
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Avs71
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Even if MacKinnon hasn't looked great so far, there should be 0 concern. Mack's start to the season will probably be a lot like Duchene's rookie season. Duchene had 7 points in his first 21 games. Comparitively Kane had 12 in that same time, JT had 19, and O'Reilly had 15.

Being a a guy who thrives on speed, it will probably take him a while to learn to slow it down. Very similar to Duchene.

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09-16-2013, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I hadn't seen Drouin was getting tried at center. That's a mistake IMO. He's just too small to be a full time center in the NHL. The only undersized centers like that in the NHL are gritty ones in 2nd or 3rd line roles, he's more of a patient read the play skill player. The D zone assignments will just take too much away from his game..
He's 5'11''. He's tall enough and also fairly strong on his skates.

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09-16-2013, 09:08 AM
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Mystic MacK
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Originally Posted by avsfan09 View Post
He's 5'11''. He's tall enough and also fairly strong on his skates.
He's stocky and strong, but I've never bought the 5'11" number. He's always so much shorter than Nate. He's not tiny, he just doesn't have the right build or playing style to be a decent two way center IMO.

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09-16-2013, 10:04 AM
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Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
He's stocky and strong, but I've never bought the 5'11" number. He's always so much shorter than Nate. He's not tiny, he just doesn't have the right build or playing style to be a decent two way center IMO.
Stamkos isn't a two-way center and if Duchene can play two-way, so can Drouin who isn't terribly shorter (maybe an inch or two, but he's been growing a lot the past year).

Point is, centers don't have to be prototypical if the system they are used in is appropriate and their surrounding talent is appropriate.

Although that doesn't change the fact it is bizarre that they haven't been trying a Drouin-Stamkos-MSL line. Maybe they felt with MSL's age getting up there it was important to have a more balanced top line for defensive reasons since Stamkos isn't much of a defensive player himself.

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09-16-2013, 10:06 AM
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Mack 6'0'' vs Drouin 5'11''







If Mack is 6'0'' it seems to me that Drouin could very well be 5'11''.

Other notable 5'11''-centers: Crosby, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Giroux.

I don't think the red line on height can be drawn at 5'11''.

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09-16-2013, 10:37 AM
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Drouin is playing C in today's scrimmage. Namestnikov and Connolly on his wings.

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09-16-2013, 07:42 PM
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cgf
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Why do we even have this thread? We all know MacKinnon is a bust, I mean he didn't even have chemistry with Downie and McGinn in his first ever pro training camp. What a bust. Kid's the next Landeskog or Duchene.

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09-16-2013, 07:51 PM
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The Kingslayer
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Macks a bust everyone else in his drafte are betterz

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