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Norris Trophy 2014

View Poll Results: Who wins the Norris in 2013-2014?
Brian Campbell 3 0.46%
Zdeno Chara 24 3.72%
Cam Fowler 2 0.31%
Oliver Ekman-Larsson 60 9.29%
Mike Green 7 1.08%
Dougie Hamilton 10 1.55%
Kris Letang 9 1.39%
Erik Karlsson 125 19.35%
Duncan Keith 16 2.48%
Alex Pietrangelo 95 14.71%
Ryan Suter 48 7.43%
PK Subban 112 17.34%
Shea Weber 73 11.30%
Drew Doughty 14 2.17%
Other 48 7.43%
Voters: 646. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-14-2013, 08:43 PM
  #476
Habsawce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
How's that rubbish? The guy has a point. Subban has done really well but comparing who he is doing it against compared to other defenders it's not close and not nearly as significant.

Whether the coach is a moron or not. Don't get me wrong, Subban is great defender but his prestige won't be viewed as highly because of who he is doing it out there against.
Hopefully they hurry up and give him his new contract so they don't need to stunt him to get a better price anymore. I have a feeling once he gets his 8 years he'll be playing 27-30 minutes a game against top competition. At least that's what I've been telling myself

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11-25-2013, 08:54 AM
  #477
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Been a while since this has been brought up. Anyway here's a post I made in another topic replying to someone posting 'advanced stats':

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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I think it's also nice to look at Corsi to show on ice flow/dominance as opposed to just scoring. So what I'm going to look at is only 5 on 5 GF/GA and Corsi. (Not sure where you got your stats, I'm grabbing them from Extra Skater...they're different from yours).

Duncan Keith: 26 - 18 (+8, +1.7% GF rel) and 58.8% CF (+3.9% rel)

PK Subban: 18 - 14 (+4, +7.8% GF rel) and 53.9% CF (+9.4% rel)

Oliver Ekman-Larsson: 21 - 13 (+7, +13.4% GF rel) and 45.3% CF (-5.2% rel)

Alex Pietrangelo: 22 - 14 (+8, -2.2% GF rel) and 55.9% CF (+2.9% rel)

Erik Karlsson: 22 - 23 (-1, -1.1% GF rel) and 51.1% CF (+4.0% rel)

Drew Doughty: 17 - 14 (+3, +3.3% GF rel) and 58.5% CF (+1.5% rel)

Ryan Suter: 13 - 13 (E, -14.9% GF rel) and 50.6% CF (-2.4% rel)

I've ordered them by which I see as most impressive to least impressive while also taking their individual point/goal totals into account. These are still not the greatest without watching them or providing team stats, but the inclusion of the relative information gives you a decent idea of how they are doing compared to their teammates. Duncan Keith seems to always be the forgotten player in these discussions.
Right now I think if voting were done today the top three would have to be between Keith, OEL, Subban and Pietrangelo (OEL is my personal favourite, but it's hard to argue with what Keith is doing in Chicago).

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Old
11-25-2013, 03:27 PM
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Been a while since this has been brought up. Anyway here's a post I made in another topic replying to someone posting 'advanced stats':



Right now I think if voting were done today the top three would have to be between Keith, OEL, Subban and Pietrangelo (OEL is my personal favourite, but it's hard to argue with what Keith is doing in Chicago).
Great post, these are very interesting stats. Subban must not be too bad defensively huh? Because last year his advanced stats were phenomenal too

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11-25-2013, 04:01 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by samsquanch9 View Post
Great post, these are very interesting stats. Subban must not be too bad defensively huh? Because last year his advanced stats were phenomenal too
Subban is very solid defensively. Not sure why people say he isn't. I guess since he scores a lot of points he must be bad defensively

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11-25-2013, 07:18 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Milan the God View Post
Subban is very solid defensively. Not sure why people say he isn't. I guess since he scores a lot of points he must be bad defensively
Subban gets trashed because his coach doesn't trust him to be out there for critical situations. Normally that's a red flag, but in this case it's probably just Therrien being crazy.

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11-25-2013, 07:36 PM
  #481
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Subban gets trashed because his coach doesn't trust him to be out there for critical situations. Normally that's a red flag, but in this case it's probably just Therrien being crazy.
Subban showed he can be an effective player in defensive situations. A couple years ago he was the Habs #1 defenseman on the PK and it finished second in the league. Now, he barely gets PK time.

I think I read on here something about the Habs management not letting him play enough so he'll cost them less money...which is pretty bush league. That's not Subban's fault, though.

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11-25-2013, 07:45 PM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the God View Post
Subban showed he can be an effective player in defensive situations. A couple years ago he was the Habs #1 defenseman on the PK and it finished second in the league. Now, he barely gets PK time.

I think I read on here something about the Habs management not letting him play enough so he'll cost them less money...which is pretty bush league. That's not Subban's fault, though.
I hope that it's not true. If it is, we are *****.

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11-25-2013, 07:45 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Milan the God View Post
Subban showed he can be an effective player in defensive situations. A couple years ago he was the Habs #1 defenseman on the PK and it finished second in the league. Now, he barely gets PK time.

I think I read on here something about the Habs management not letting him play enough so he'll cost them less money...which is pretty bush league. That's not Subban's fault, though.

No it's actually that we have other players that can do a decent job on the P.K. So that way we get to use Subban more on the PP.It's a better situation for the Habs to play Subban on the PP more than the P.K because we have capable D-man that can play the P.K. We could play Subban in both situation but than we would be overplaying him like how Suter is being overplayed.Play Suter a little less and he just might put up points closer to what Subban does. Till than to bad.

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11-25-2013, 08:53 PM
  #484
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No it's actually that we have other players that can do a decent job on the P.K. So that way we get to use Subban more on the PP.It's a better situation for the Habs to play Subban on the PP more than the P.K because we have capable D-man that can play the P.K. We could play Subban in both situation but than we would be overplaying him like how Suter is being overplayed.Play Suter a little less and he just might put up points closer to what Subban does. Till than to bad.
Exactly. A typical Habs PP has Subban on the ice for around 1:30.

I'd rather have him fresh for the PP and ES, where he's a game changer, then also on the PK when there are other capable Pk'ers.

Montreal does have a top 5 PK last time I checked. And a top 5 PP, so it's hard to argue with results.

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11-25-2013, 10:26 PM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the God View Post
Subban showed he can be an effective player in defensive situations. A couple years ago he was the Habs #1 defenseman on the PK and it finished second in the league. Now, he barely gets PK time.

I think I read on here something about the Habs management not letting him play enough so he'll cost them less money...which is pretty bush league. That's not Subban's fault, though.
It has more to do with maximizing usefulness. Subban's good at killing penalties, he's better at even strength and the PP. Montreal has Gorges and Emelin for PK situations. Markov and Diaz are also capable at killing penalties. It's about the only thing Murray hasn't sucked at. But really, it lets Subban play more in situations where he can really affect the flow of the game instead of just playing prevent defence.

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11-26-2013, 07:32 AM
  #486
Fred Taylor
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Karlsson.

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Old
11-26-2013, 08:31 AM
  #487
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Evaluating Defensive Performance Among The NHL's Defencemen

A pretty interesting read: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/20...hls-defencemen

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11-26-2013, 09:07 AM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Subban is really good at driving possession. We get it.

But possession stats are very role dependent. Comparing Subban's figures to the rest of the field, who play against top lines with double the frequency is extremely disingenuous.
He already showed competition does not mean much to his stats in 11/12.

It's extremely disingenuous to compare competition stats since it's not a level field. For example a team like the Leafs can have multiple players with rel QoC in the 2s while other teams might not even have a player in the 1s. If your team is one of the worst teams in the league in possession, not playing against yourself becomes a stat padder.

You can't really judge Subban on how the current coaches uses him. He opts to go with Boullion on his offside in key situations and has double standards/bias when judging players. There's even a song about how Therrien uses Subban: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...0976--nhl.html

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11-26-2013, 10:03 AM
  #489
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Im pretty sure thats a leafs blog too

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11-26-2013, 09:11 PM
  #490
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Love how guys like Dougie "2nd pairing" Hamilton and Shea Weber, who by all counts is having a middle of the road season by his standards, get mentions but Erik Johnson/Jan Hejda, who have played astoundingly well against top competition, don't even get a sniff. Not saying they deserve the trophy or will even finish top-3 or top-5, but they certainly should be on the short list/honorable mention

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11-26-2013, 09:16 PM
  #491
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No way should Karlsson be winning this. He sucks.

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11-26-2013, 09:25 PM
  #492
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As a sens fan I dont approve of Karlsson winning this unless of course he gets much much much better throughout the season which is possible

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11-26-2013, 10:40 PM
  #493
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As a sens fan I dont approve of Karlsson winning this unless of course he gets much much much better throughout the season which is possible
To be fair, this thread has been up since mid-September, two weeks before any games were played.

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