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Circumventing the Entry-Level System

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Old
07-08-2005, 11:52 PM
  #76
kdb209
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Really ??

as Carson would say I never knew that !!!

How does it work though .. There are no check and balances in a CBA that says a player needs to make X amount .. So what prevents his team from overpaying him in future deals??? .. or is it the prearranged part that violates rules ??

So a team says " We will look after you in the future is a CBA violation ? " or are we talking about a different thing here ??.
It's the pre-arranged part that gets you into trouble. That's exactly what happened to the T-Wolves and Joe Smith:

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21. Do players and teams ever have under-the-table agreements? What happens when the league finds out about them? Is this what happened with the Timberwolves and Joe Smith?

If a team makes a direct agreement with a player that is not reported to the league, the penalties can be even harsher than those described in question number 20 . Such a violation is considered by the league to be among the most serious a team can commit. Again, the league will investigate any allegations of wrongdoing. A violation can result in a fine up to $3,500,000, forfeiture of draft picks, voiding the player's contract(s), and/or the suspension for up to one year of any team personnel who were involved.

This is exactly what happened in 2000 with Joe Smith and the Minnesota Timberwolves. Smith left the Philadelphia 76ers in 1999 (following the lockout) to sign with the Minnesota Timberwolves for their $1.75 million mid-level exception. They made an under-the-table agreement that Smith would play under three consecutive one-year contracts at below market value, and the Timberwolves would reward him by using their Bird rights to sign him to a huge contract beginning with the 2001-02 season. Unfortunately, they reduced this agreement to writing, and the written agreement eventally found its way into the league's hands.

It had long been rumored that such under-the-table agreements existed, but this was the first time the league had hard evidence in the form of a signed contract. The league responded by fining the team the maximum $3.5 million, taking away their next five draft picks (two were later returned), and voiding Smith's current contract. Owner Glen Taylor and GM Kevin McHale also agreed to leaves of absence (in lieu of suspensions, at which time the fifth draft pick was returned). Most interestingly, the league also voided Smith's two previous, already-completed contracts. This essentially stripped the Timberwolves of any Bird rights to Smith, preventing them from re-signing Smith for any salary above the minimum (they had already used their other exceptions). Smith then left Minnesota and signed with the Detroit Pistons, but returned to Minnesota in 2001.

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Old
07-09-2005, 12:20 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by kdb209
It's the pre-arranged part that gets you into trouble. That's exactly what happened to the T-Wolves and Joe Smith:
Correct

The ELS system seems pretty tough to beat and find any loopholes ..

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07-09-2005, 12:37 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Correct

The ELS system seems pretty tough to beat and find any loopholes ..
Interesting thought... pretend that the previously proposed scheme COULD be attempted, and that there's 2 teams brave enough and motivated enough to try it... I may be wrong, but doesn't the league commissioner have the right to vetoe trades? Does he have the right to vetoe contract offers? What I see potentially happening is team A and B being told that their trade can't happen as it violates the CBA, and is not in the interest of the league. Then, team A is out player X, because the league allows the buyout to go through... but team B doesn't get player X either, as the league once again determines that team B's contract offer was in violation of the CBA, and is not in the interest of the league.

Two teams scheme, two teams get burned, and player X is now free to sign with any of 28 other teams. At least as probable/possible as the now defunct scheme?

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07-09-2005, 10:00 AM
  #79
missK
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Originally Posted by Kestrel
Interesting thought... pretend that the previously proposed scheme COULD be attempted, and that there's 2 teams brave enough and motivated enough to try it... I may be wrong, but doesn't the league commissioner have the right to vetoe trades? Does he have the right to vetoe contract offers? What I see potentially happening is team A and B being told that their trade can't happen as it violates the CBA, and is not in the interest of the league. Then, team A is out player X, because the league allows the buyout to go through... but team B doesn't get player X either, as the league once again determines that team B's contract offer was in violation of the CBA, and is not in the interest of the league.

Two teams scheme, two teams get burned, and player X is now free to sign with any of 28 other teams. At least as probable/possible as the now defunct scheme?
The league can always veto trades and it's already been reported the league will review all new contracts during the new CBA to ensure that everything follows the new CBA rules.

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