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What are the chances this thing gets voted down?

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Old
07-07-2005, 02:10 PM
  #1
GODARD49
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What are the chances this thing gets voted down?

What are the chances that they say no to the new deal?

I would love to hear what Bob Mckenzie thinks about this. I hope that if the players do reject the offer, Bettman turns around and just cancels the 2005 season. They think this thing is a game, well actually it kinda is. :

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07-07-2005, 02:12 PM
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Zero.

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07-07-2005, 02:14 PM
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zero chance the players vote it down

zero change Bettman cancels the season if they do.

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07-07-2005, 02:15 PM
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07-07-2005, 02:16 PM
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If you listen to some of the PA retoric then you would belive that the chances are much dimmer than they really are. I cannot , however , imagine the players being stupid enough to vote it down at this point . THough with that said I never in a million years thought that we would lose a full season either.

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07-07-2005, 02:16 PM
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Very, very small.

While a large contingent of the union would obviously be upset with the deal, I cant fathom a reason why they would think they would get a better offer after rejecting this one.

What would their next step then become? Decertification?

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07-07-2005, 02:24 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
What would their next step then become? Decertification?
At the very least, I would think their executive council would have no choice but to resign en masse. For them to work countless hours on a 600+ page agreement, only for their members to vote it down? Ugh...

That would basically totally derail this process, and send everything into bloody anarchy.

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07-07-2005, 02:24 PM
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07-07-2005, 02:27 PM
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Was'nt it initially rejeted by the players, worked on a little, then accepted a few days later the last time around...

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07-07-2005, 03:35 PM
  #10
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If they do reject it, I hope the owners come back with an even lower offer.....one on a sliding scale that gets continuously lower until the union ratifies it.

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07-07-2005, 04:05 PM
  #11
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I'm curious to know how certain this CBA will be ratified by the NHLPA. This agreement renders agents much less useful since this CBA dictates how much the players are worth and how much each team can spend. The players will get a percentage of the revenues that's already been negotiated. The player cap that exists @ 20% significantly also limits any need for negotiations. It's hardly an enticing deal for player agents who have significant influence when advising the players. I wouldn't be surprised if these agents encourage their clients to vote against the deal.

This deal is also made uglier by the entry level cap that prevents star rookies from making as much money as they can get overseas. It would just suck to witness many good young hockey players going overseas. This migration of players to Europe would further dilute the NHL's talent pool as a number of europeans are already considering staying in their homelands. This sucks big time and is another clear example that demonstrates the NHL owners don't necessarily have fans interests at heart!

This situation gets worse as I think the union is fractured to the point where half the players want to play hockey and support Bob Goodenow at any costs while the others don't feel the same way. If there is an even larger group of players, which we weren't aware of, that are unhappy with the union's executive committee, I wonder if these players would choose to seek decertification the NHLPA. The advantages with such a scenario obviously include no cap restrictions on team payrolls...thus giving the players an opportunity to make much more money. Yet, these guys would also sacrifice a variety of perks that come with being a union member. So now, I wonder if some players are realistically considering this last resort option if the NHL doesn't make some serious concessions.

I personally think the deal will be eventually ratified by the players. Perhaps there's so much unrest within the union because they know so little of what the new agreement contains and how it may work to their advantage. Certainly, no agreement wouldn't have been reached either if there weren't a significant proportion of players aching to play hockey again. But, this thing is far from being guaranteed IMO.

It'd be interesting to read/hear Bob McKenzie's take on this situation. You can bet an insider report will be presented on TSN later today d/t the rampant speculation of a deal being reached. Hopefully Bob addresses this issue of player support for ratification as well.


Last edited by fcbarcelona: 07-07-2005 at 04:21 PM.
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Old
07-07-2005, 04:10 PM
  #12
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If this ‘unhappy’ segment was/is that concerned, shouldn’t they have voiced their objections earlier? It’s not like there haven’t been rumors for the past several weeks of what this CBA is most likely going to entail.

At some point the INDIVIDUAL is going to have to take responsibility for himself --- saying I didn't know, I wasn't informed, they didn't tell me until it was too late is no excuse --- it's your very livelihood, it behooves you to be as informed as possible. If the powers that be aren't listening or don't provide you with the information in a timely fashion you raise holy hell until you get the answers.

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07-07-2005, 04:15 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
Perhaps there's so much unrest within the union because they know so little of what the new agreement contains and how it may work to their advantage.
Yeah, I think a lot of this angst stems from the lack of verifiable facts the union have been given lately. IMO, once the executive committee explains the deal to their constituents, they'll lament their lot in life but will ratify it anyway.

And if some hardliners want to continue fighting the war, they had better come up with a damn good plan on how failing to ratify will somehow get the union more concessions. Up to this point, the NHL has done little to indicate it would suddenly knuckle under. These guys cancelled an entire season, obviously something many players never expected.

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07-07-2005, 04:26 PM
  #14
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It's pretty unlikely it will get voted down. Too many players want to start this season on time. Unless someone is quietly circulating a decertification petition, approving the CBA is the only way to get back to playing.

Personally, I hope someone is trying to get a decertification vote. It would be high entertainment.

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07-07-2005, 06:52 PM
  #15
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Like Kypreos said...

There is no alternative..

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07-07-2005, 07:04 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
I'm curious to know how certain this CBA will be ratified by the NHLPA. This agreement renders agents much less useful since this CBA dictates how much the players are worth and how much each team can spend. The players will get a percentage of the revenues that's already been negotiated. The player cap that exists @ 20% significantly also limits any need for negotiations. It's hardly an enticing deal for player agents who have significant influence when advising the players. I wouldn't be surprised if these agents encourage their clients to vote against the deal.
Well, the current standard for agent fees is 3 or 3.5% of the value of the contract. 3% of $0 is $0. Agents are losing as much by this lockout as anyone else. Unless they actually believe that voting down this deal would lead to a better deal, they would be completely foolish to advise their players against ratification.


Quote:
This deal is also made uglier by the entry level cap that prevents star rookies from making as much money as they can get overseas. It would just suck to witness many good young hockey players going overseas. This migration of players to Europe would further dilute the NHL's talent pool as a number of europeans are already considering staying in their homelands. This sucks big time and is another clear example that demonstrates the NHL owners don't necessarily have fans interests at heart!
The ability of any team to compete on an even level is in the best interest of the fans. The argument that "star rookies" are considering Europe is a waste, and an obvious fabrication built by one agent trying to push for a special deal for his client.

Really, other than the claim by his agent that Crosby has an offer in Switzerland, how many other star rookies are being offered deals in Europe right now? I can think of Ovechkin and ...........

Quote:
This situation gets worse as I think the union is fractured to the point where half the players want to play hockey and support Bob Goodenow at any costs while the others don't feel the same way. If there is an even larger group of players, which we weren't aware of, that are unhappy with the union's executive committee, I wonder if these players would choose to seek decertification the NHLPA. The advantages with such a scenario obviously include no cap restrictions on team payrolls...thus giving the players an opportunity to make much more money. Yet, these guys would also sacrifice a variety of perks that come with being a union member. So now, I wonder if some players are realistically considering this last resort option if the NHL doesn't make some serious concessions.
While I am not certian of the legalities of it, I suspect that lacking a union to collectively bargain, the owners would be free to decide on their own how much they want to cap salaries. You dont want to decertify? Sure! The cap is now $33 million, we will reach our own, internal agreement on how to enforce it, and any player who wants to play can sign at any time.

Also, I believe the players that just want to play are opposed to Goodenow, not supporting him. All reports suggest that BG has nothing to do with the current negotiations.

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07-07-2005, 07:17 PM
  #17
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Vote it down ?

No way...

If something like that ever happened ..the next offer they get is they pay the owners to get back in.

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07-07-2005, 07:29 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weary

Personally, I hope someone is trying to get a decertification vote. It would be high entertainment.
More entertaining then a hockey game?

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07-07-2005, 07:29 PM
  #19
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0%

I'd even say -10% if it were possible.

Again, this isn't some NHL proposal that the NHLPA are swallowing, this is a joint venture by both parties. Bob Goodenow is going to tell his players to accept the offer.

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07-07-2005, 07:32 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe
More entertaining then a hockey game?
Considering what the NHL wants to label "a hockey game," I'd say yes.

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07-07-2005, 08:25 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weary
Considering what the NHL wants to label "a hockey game," I'd say yes.
Come on Weary. I know your bitter that the PA folded (exactly as predicted) after you typed your fingers to the bone supporting them, but this petty attitude is pathetic.

The NHL will still have the best players in the world and the quality has the real potential to improve as they open up the game to try and re-sell the sport.

Why should you or anyone else but the players and their agents care that the players are making less to play the game you are watching?

Great players made far less for over a century and still provided excellent hockey.

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07-07-2005, 08:33 PM
  #22
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Like everyone else said, no chance.

If for some freak reason it happens I would hope the owners next offer is to take the player's 54% share and offer the players 46% and see how they take that.

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07-07-2005, 08:37 PM
  #23
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I think there is a very good chance, maybe 30% that the players vote it down. There is nothing preventing them from continuing to negotiate, it wont delay the start of the season, puts enormous pressure on the owners, and is absolutely 100% in their best financial interest to continue to hold out for a better deal. Many players are sick of the lockout and want it to end, but many others wont just sign something because someone told them they "have to", and cave in on every front.

In fact I think this delay is precisely because they fear the players will reject the negotiated CBA. Its 90% complete and has been for some time. They are fiddling with the numbers to get enough members on board to avoid the emarassment.

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07-07-2005, 08:41 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
I think there is a very good chance, maybe 30% that the players vote it down. There is nothing preventing them from continuing to negotiate, it wont delay the start of the season, puts enormous pressure on the owners, and is absolutely 100% in their best financial interest to continue to hold out for a better deal. Many players are sick of the lockout and want it to end, but many others wont just sign something because someone told them they "have to", and cave in on every front.

Actually mojo, now that the PA has accepted linkage, every fan they alienate and every day they waste that they and the teams could be selling tickets is money directly from their pockets.

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07-07-2005, 08:43 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee Wally
Vote it down ?

No way...

If something like that ever happened ..the next offer they get is they pay the owners to get back in.
The players should consider themselves fortunate to still have the clothes on their back

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