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What are the chances this thing gets voted down?

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Old
07-07-2005, 08:44 PM
  #26
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Chance of pact rejection = Minus one billion percent.

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07-07-2005, 08:45 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Actually mojo, now that the PA has accepted linkage, every fan they alienate and every day they waste that they and the teams could be selling tickets is money directly from their pockets.
And what makes you think they arent vehemently arguing over the 54% number?

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07-07-2005, 08:47 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gscarpenter2002
Chance of pact rejection = Minus one billion percent.
Keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but there is almost certainly a sizable portion of PA members who will vote against the current rumoured deal. The chances they convince enough to vote with them is small, but a very real possibility.

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07-07-2005, 08:50 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
And what makes you think they arent vehemently arguing over the 54% number?
Do you seriously think they are going to get a deal without linkage by not ratifying?

Do you seriously think they can get the NHL to budge on the 54% number?

Have you been paying any attention to which side has the power and which side has caved?

The PA will take the bitter medicine reluctantly, but there is no chance they don't ratify.

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07-07-2005, 09:20 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
Doctor, heal thyself ...

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07-07-2005, 09:30 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better, but there is almost certainly a sizable portion of PA members who will vote against the current rumoured deal. The chances they convince enough to vote with them is small, but a very real possibility.
Yes BScarpeter is good at that .. Thats really all he does in fact ..

The Sportsnet article just released has said this on he subject

Quote:
The NHL has called its executive committee into New York for a meeting on Monday, at which point the commissioner and his legal team hopes to be in a position to hand over the agreement.

Ratification of this agreement is by no means a slam-dunk and is believed seven-10 days will be required to complete the process, which would zero in on mid-month as the beginning of a mammoth re-launch.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20050706_171050_5180

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07-07-2005, 09:39 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Yes BScarpeter is good at that .. Thats really all he does in fact ..

The Sportsnet article just released has said this on he subject
Ouch!!!!! A scathing retort from Massager (although you still don't have the stones to debate me any more after being humiliated repeatedly). It is probably for the best though, since I was starting to get worried about the impact of your nightly thrashings on your self esteem and whether it might impact your grade ten equivalency final exams.

Go back to pretending with the newbies...

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07-07-2005, 09:58 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Yes BScarpeter is good at that .. Thats really all he does in fact ..

The Sportsnet article just released has said this on he subject
Question for the Pro PA guys like The Messenger. Do you want the players to pass up this deal or not?

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07-07-2005, 10:08 PM
  #34
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There is no alternative

If this was voted down the NHL would come down amazingly hard on the players. The last time the NHL told the NHLPA that it was the best deal they're gonna be offered from now on, the NHLPA didnt listen. I suspect if the players as a whole have any sense of decency they would put this god damn lockout behind us.

There is absolutely no need to continue this hard nose stance of "NEVER!!"

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07-07-2005, 10:10 PM
  #35
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70% chance it gets voted down. There is a silent majority of angry players. Gary the idiot had his marching orders from the owners, they don't want to cancel another season, the players don't want that either. Voting it down would truly show that the players are serious and won't back down, it would put the owners in a corner and force them to give more concessions.

and it won't be the first time the players feigned collapse to get something out of the owners, they did this in 1995 and 1992 as well.

And I hope they do vote it down, stick it to Bettman and Wirtz, maybe they'll do us a favor and jump out of the NY offices.


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07-07-2005, 10:18 PM
  #36
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More bizarroworld posts from blamebettman!


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Old
07-07-2005, 10:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
Question for the Pro PA guys like The Messenger. Do you want the players to pass up this deal or not?
Of course not .. I love hockey as much as the next guy ..

Not sure pro-pa best suites me .. I support major contraction so not sure the PA wants me on their side .. I would fold 10 teams and cut 200+ jobs and make a Super league ..

I am just playing the messenger here and reporting what was written in the papers,


Last edited by Mess: 07-07-2005 at 10:37 PM.
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07-07-2005, 10:33 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blamebettman
70% chance it gets voted down. There is a silent majority of angry players. Gary the idiot had his marching orders from the owners, they don't want to cancel another season, the players don't want that either. Voting it down would truly show that the players are serious and won't back down, it would put the owners in a corner and force them to give more concessions.

and it won't be the first time the players feigned collapse to get something out of the owners, they did this in 1995 and 1992 as well.

And I hope they do vote it down, stick it to Bettman and Wirtz, maybe they'll do us a favor and jump out of the NY offices.
Or the owners just move to go with replacement players, using public anger at the players greed as a springboard?

The players tried to test the owners resolve once already. If Plan B is exactly the same as Plan A, then expect the same result.

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07-07-2005, 10:55 PM
  #39
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I can't see them going with scabs, that would play right into the nhlpa's hands

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07-07-2005, 10:56 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blamebettman
And I hope they do vote it down, stick it to Bettman and Wirtz, maybe they'll do us a favor and jump out of the NY offices.
At least we agree on something: 200 hundred of the NHPLA idiots jumping should be a positive thing. Maybe enough to tilt the vote back in favour "yes".

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07-07-2005, 11:12 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Do you seriously think they are going to get a deal without linkage by not ratifying?

Do you seriously think they can get the NHL to budge on the 54% number?

Have you been paying any attention to which side has the power and which side has caved?

The PA will take the bitter medicine reluctantly, but there is no chance they don't ratify.
The players have not caved until they ratify the CBA. The league prepared to sacrafice the first year well in advance, they can not afford to lose a second. 54% makes the league extremely profitable, they could budge from that position. Logically if the players are looking out solely for their own bottom line and are unified they should not accept the deal. They may accept it, but only because they are not united and are itching to get back to the ice.

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07-07-2005, 11:23 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blamebettman
70% chance it gets voted down. There is a silent majority of angry players. Gary the idiot had his marching orders from the owners, they don't want to cancel another season, the players don't want that either. Voting it down would truly show that the players are serious and won't back down, it would put the owners in a corner and force them to give more concessions.

and it won't be the first time the players feigned collapse to get something out of the owners, they did this in 1995 and 1992 as well.

And I hope they do vote it down, stick it to Bettman and Wirtz, maybe they'll do us a favor and jump out of the NY offices.
Somebody's wound a little bit too tight.

You're going to be some disappointed when this deal gets ratified.

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07-07-2005, 11:32 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1
If they do reject it, I hope the owners come back with an even lower offer.....one on a sliding scale that gets continuously lower until the union ratifies it.
Yeah that would work.

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07-07-2005, 11:35 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
Question for the Pro PA guys like The Messenger. Do you want the players to pass up this deal or not?
This Pro-PA hockey fan says, end it, lace em up and get back on the ice.

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07-08-2005, 12:25 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
Well, the current standard for agent fees is 3 or 3.5% of the value of the contract. 3% of $0 is $0. Agents are losing as much by this lockout as anyone else. Unless they actually believe that voting down this deal would lead to a better deal, they would be completely foolish to advise their players against ratification.
So if the role of the agent is significantly diminished, isn't it possible their fees could drop dramatically? Hardly enticing deal for the player agents.

Quote:
The ability of any team to compete on an even level is in the best interest of the fans. The argument that "star rookies" are considering Europe is a waste, and an obvious fabrication built by one agent trying to push for a special deal for his client.
If an even playing field is indeed the best interest of the fans then why aren't revenues being significantly shared?

Quote:
Really, other than the claim by his agent that Crosby has an offer in Switzerland, how many other star rookies are being offered deals in Europe right now? I can think of Ovechkin and ...........
Even if a small number of NHL prospects are actually offered contract from overseas, those that could be attracted to Europe are the few but very best young players. Teams like Lugano and Ak Bars have shown the ability and willingness (in Lugano's case) to pay these prospects far greater amounts than they would initially receive from the NHL. Potentially losing star quality players like Crosby and Ovechkin is an actual threat and could be a big blow to the teams that draft them (further imbalancing the competitive field).

While it may be true that only a small number would be afforded such an opportunity to make more money overseas, we can't know that for sure until some time has come to pass.

FYI, Malkin is also apparently a major threat to remian in Russia. If this is true, then wouldn't it also be plausible for players like Carter, Lehtonen etc..to receive attractive contract offers from leagues other than the NHL?

Quote:
While I am not certian of the legalities of it, I suspect that lacking a union to collectively bargain, the owners would be free to decide on their own how much they want to cap salaries. You dont want to decertify? Sure! The cap is now $33 million, we will reach our own, internal agreement on how to enforce it, and any player who wants to play can sign at any time.
I don't think its that simple. From what I've read, the players could sue the league if the NHL unilaterally decided to impose a cap if impasse hasn't been declared. The league wouldn't be free to cap salaries as it violates labour laws. If someone can back me up or prove the opposite to be true, it'd be much appreciated.

Quote:
Also, I believe the players that just want to play are opposed to Goodenow, not supporting him. All reports suggest that BG has nothing to do with the current negotiations.
My bad. You're absolutely correct about that. I don't know what I was thinking when I typed that


Last edited by fcbarcelona: 07-08-2005 at 01:05 AM.
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Old
07-08-2005, 12:43 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blamebettman
I can't see them going with scabs, that would play right into the nhlpa's hands
How? The NHLPA is not winning the PR battle, and to turn down this deal would only further alienate the fans.

Not to mention that the union is fractured. You dont think a lot of players would be looking at this deal being turned down and start to wonder what the hell the union is fighting for?

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07-08-2005, 12:54 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
So if the role of the agent is significantly diminished, isn't it possible their fees could drop dramatically? Hardly enticing deal for the player agents.


Screw the players' agents-they're the ones that helped to get the NHL into the mess it's in today.

They have no power in these negotiations, turned into eunichs by the NHLPA who threatened to yank their ticket if they represented any player in a scab situation.

The agents are going to make their money, and are going to have a very nice summer of signings.

Agents also play a role in promoting their clients to get endorsements, etc, and may be forced to get a little more proactive in that area, indirectly helping to increase the exposure of the NHL.

It is also, now more than ever, in the best interest of the agents to help the NHL increase revenues as much as possible. Hopefully they realize this and start getting creative.

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07-08-2005, 12:56 PM
  #48
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If it gets voted down 60-40 or 55-45, no problem.

The NHL opens for business in September, and waits for that 40-45% to cross the line.

IMO, that is why the union can't afford to not ratify this. They either come back now, with some dignity...or they come back in 2 months, humiliated.

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07-08-2005, 12:57 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
You're going to be some disappointed when this deal gets ratified.
Which says a lot in and of itself, doesn't it. Disappointment over a ratified agreement to end the lockout.

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07-08-2005, 01:12 PM
  #50
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Who cares?

if it gets voted down the owners just have to declare impass and start the season on time....

minus NHLPA(defunct) input into the game.

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