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Eyeing the Subban Situation - Offer Sheet Time!

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11-06-2013, 01:41 PM
  #1
Boomhower
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Eyeing the Subban Situation - Offer Sheet Time!

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=435984

PK has been treated like crap his entire time in Montreal IMO. Loved by the fans, constantly gets hard line treatment from coaches and management.

-Ugly contract negtitions last year, that led to him missing some games and walking away with a very modest contract. He also wasn't really acceped back wth open arms by the coaches once the deal was done.

-He was very publically criticized by Therrien for his celebrations as bringing personal attention to himself, not the team. Lead to the banning of the 'Low five" to change the 'culture' of the team.

-Now Rafael Diaz... AKa "player 61", is even getting more IT then PK as his contract negotiations approach. Looks like they are establishing grounds for a hardline stance that PK isn't a well rounded player.


DETROIT IMPLICATIONS:
Top 4 next year : A guy can dream!!

Dekeyser - Subban
Ericsson - Kronwall

Instantly becomes the second most talented player on the team and BAM out PP becomes relevant again for first time since Lidstrom left.

I would have no problem going 8 years/7.5AAV.
Keeping in mind Detroit has 11.77M dead weight coming off the books this year and the cap is expected to go up.
Bertuzzi (2.075), Samuelsson (3), Cleary (1.75), Alfie (3.5), Eaves (1.2), Quincey (3.77). Note: Alfie and Ericsson also expire but likely to b brought back (Not dead weight)

This is my case to prepare an offer sheet... thoughts?

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11-06-2013, 01:45 PM
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Vladdy84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=435984

PK has been treated like crap his entire time in Montreal IMO. Loved by the fans, constantly gets hard line treatment from coaches and management.

-Ugly contract negtitions last year, that led to him missing some games and walking away with a very modest contract. He also wasn't really acceped back wth open arms by the coaches once the deal was done.

-He was very publically criticized by Therrien for his celebrations as bringing personal attention to himself, not the team. Lead to the banning of the 'Low five" to change the 'culture' of the team.

-Now Rafael Diaz... AKa "player 61", is even getting more IT then PK as his contract negotiations approach. Looks like they are establishing grounds for a hardline stance that PK isn't a well rounded player.


DETROIT IMPLICATIONS:
Top 4 next year : A guy can dream!!

Dekeyser - Subban
Ericsson - Kronwall

Instantly becomes the second most talented player on the team and BAM out PP becomes relevant again for first time since Lidstrom left.

I would have no problem going 8 years/7.5AAV.
Keeping in mind Detroit has 11.77M dead weight coming off the books this year and the cap is expected to go up.
Bertuzzi (2.075), Samuelsson (3), Cleary (1.75), Alfie (3.5), Eaves (1.2), Quincey (3.77). Note: Alfie and Ericsson also expire but likely to b brought back (Not dead weight)

This is my case to prepare an offer sheet... thoughts?
I wanted to sign him to an offer sheet before he had his huge breakout year. I love PK. Would do nearly anything to get him in a Winged Wheel. About a 2% chance of happening.

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11-06-2013, 01:45 PM
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Love the idea, but offer sheets are a waste of time. They always get matched for the very good players.

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11-06-2013, 01:47 PM
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They will still match whatever we offer, Subban is going to be very tough to get. It would have to be done through a trade.

Also second most talented?

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11-06-2013, 01:48 PM
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I think Montreal matches. One thing to keep in mind is that only the original team can offer 8 years, Montreal being that team, so we could only offer 7 years. With that in mind I think in order to get PK and not have Montreal match our offer would have to be 7x56M or 7x59.5M, that's 8M and 8.5M per respectively.

I'd love to have PK here I think he'd be the most marketable player we'd have had in years not to mention he's an excellent defenseman. However I can't see the Wings giving up the assets for him in a trade or paying the price of 4 1st round picks, especially with how our current team is constructed.

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11-06-2013, 01:49 PM
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it has ZERO negative effect on the team making the offer sheet

-either the club matches and you lose nothing in the process
-you force the club to match and perhaps pay more then they wanted to(hello weber and nashville) and handcuff them down the road
-you get the player you wanted who you had very little chance of drafting yourself
-no team ever says we will never ever ever trade with you again if you make the offer sheet

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11-06-2013, 01:49 PM
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Love the idea, but offer sheets are a waste of time. They always get matched for the very good players.
Would be interesting, seems like MTL management is insistant that he really isn't that important.... despite it being clear to everyone he is an unreal talent!! I haven't seen a superstar treated as poorly in a long time!

Montrea has been hard lining this guy since he walked into the league...his personality, his contracts, his team mentality. You almost never hear them say how good he is or how important he is... mostly they talk him down. It's baffling

I hope he waits to seek an offersheet to force their hand.

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11-06-2013, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
They will still match whatever we offer, Subban is going to be very tough to get. It would have to be done through a trade.

Also second most talented?
Datsyuk will still be around next year.

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11-06-2013, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
I think Montreal matches. One thing to keep in mind is that only the original team can offer 8 years, Montreal being that team, so we could only offer 7 years. With that in mind I think in order to get PK and not have Montreal match our offer would have to be 7x56M or 7x59.5M, that's 8M and 8.5M per respectively.
Thanks, forgot about the 7 year offer sheet stipulation. I would still do 8M/AAV.... keeping in mind we would be getting all prime years of his career.

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11-06-2013, 02:00 PM
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If Holland didn't offersheet Shea Weber, then I doubt he tries to offersheet Subban.

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11-06-2013, 02:00 PM
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Datsyuk will still be around next year.
Yeah um hope you're talking about just pure gifts then, because Zetterberg will still be around too. You know the guy that brings it all season long including playoffs, the actual best player on our team.

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11-06-2013, 02:03 PM
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If Holland didn't offersheet Shea Weber, then I doubt he tries to offersheet Subban.
Weber didn't want to come here. He wanted to go to Philadelphia. I guarantee Holland had the offersheet ready if got the go ahead.

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11-06-2013, 02:11 PM
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Weber didn't want to come here. He wanted to go to Philadelphia. I guarantee Holland had the offersheet ready if got the go ahead.
The other thing is that Holland may very well have sent an offer sheet but I doubt it was close to the monster Philly sent. Wasn't it 124M over 13 years? Even if we sent one I'm not sure it would be able to match up to that.

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11-06-2013, 02:15 PM
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The other thing is that Holland may very well have sent an offer sheet but I doubt it was close to the monster Philly sent. Wasn't it 124M over 13 years? Even if we sent one I'm not sure it would be able to match up to that.
From what I remember. Weber visited Philly, Detroit and a couple other places. These things are done through back channels. No reason to send an offersheet if the player isn't interested in signing it.

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11-06-2013, 02:15 PM
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Weber didn't want to come here. He wanted to go to Philadelphia. I guarantee Holland had the offersheet ready if got the go ahead.
And as a franchise I don't think we had as much cap flexibility as we will next year.

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11-06-2013, 02:18 PM
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The other thing is that Holland may very well have sent an offer sheet but I doubt it was close to the monster Philly sent. Wasn't it 124M over 13 years? Even if we sent one I'm not sure it would be able to match up to that.
I think they stated quite openly or remember through back-channels that there was basically no green-light even from Ilitch to do the kind of aggressive bonus based contract Weber got for the several years Philly did it.

Keep in mind the Wings still ***** about the Fedorov bonus fiasco. There is very little way I see them paying him knowing the lockout and doing it with four consecutive years of bonuses.

Suter, Parise and Weber picked the right summer to be UFA guys, they lost what a little under 500K on the lifetime of those deals because of the lockout, think about that.

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11-06-2013, 02:18 PM
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Yeah um hope you're talking about just pure gifts then, because Zetterberg will still be around too. You know the guy that brings it all season long including playoffs, the actual best player on our team.
Yes based on pure talent and natural gifts. Top potential is highter then Zetterberg. PK could score multiple 100 points seasons and win multiple Norris' before his career is over.

I love Zetts, but don't overrate his consistancy, Hank has come in out of shape and has taken half seasons off in the past...

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11-06-2013, 02:31 PM
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Yes based on pure talent and natural gifts. Top potential is highter then Zetterberg. PK could score multiple 100 points seasons and win multiple Norris' before his career is over.

I love Zetts, but don't overrate his consistancy, Hank has come in out of shape and has taken half seasons off in the past...
If you think he has multiple 100 point seasons ahead, might as well call him more talented Datsyuk as well, especially out of a D-man. Is Coffey the last guy to do this, just curious. I think Karlsson might get there, even that is pretty doubtful, but I don't think Subban does, that is huge number, Datsyuk and Hank have never even cracked 100 points.

All I know is Hank is consistently the best player on the team when we need the best out of everyone. His game is remarkably consistent and rather unflashy, but it is a grind it out game, I think that is part of why he has had some poor starts. He works better as the other guys and teams wear down especially offensively, his game doesn't drop off basically at all, why his point per game is the same, but his defensive levels come up.

Of course he doesn't have a game that should age particularly well, so who knows how long this will last with Z, we did see some of what you were talking about in terms of his ability to stay in shape during the knee and back issues. I think next injuries with his age are going to be a much bigger problem in terms of regaining his form.

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11-06-2013, 02:38 PM
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If you think he has multiple 100 point seasons ahead, might as well call him more talented Datsyuk as well, especially out of a D-man. Is Coffey the last guy to do this, just curious. I think Karlsson might get there, even that is pretty doubtful, but I don't think Subban does, that is huge number, Datsyuk and Hank have never even cracked 100 points.

All I know is Hank is consistently the best player on the team when we need the best out of everyone. His game is remarkably consistent and rather unflashy, but it is a grind it out game, I think that is part of why he has had some poor starts. He works better as the other guys and teams wear down especially offensively, his game doesn't drop off basically at all, why his point per game is the same, but his defensive levels come up.

Of course he doesn't have a game that should age particularly well, so who knows how long this will last with Z, we did see some of what you were talking about in terms of his ability to stay in shape during the knee and back issues. I think next injuries with his age are going to be a much bigger problem in terms of regaining his form.
Dont think the wings offer sheet him but Subban is a legit superstar that is on pretty much the same level as Zetterberg. Hes a PPG dman that hits almost as hard as Kronwall and can play in his own zone solidly. Hes got a norris. Hes a star

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11-06-2013, 02:46 PM
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Also second most talented?
most talented imo.

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11-06-2013, 03:14 PM
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Dont think the wings offer sheet him but Subban is a legit superstar that is on pretty much the same level as Zetterberg. Hes a PPG dman that hits almost as hard as Kronwall and can play in his own zone solidly. Hes got a norris. Hes a star
I like Subban a ton, plus he has that right handed shot on top of everything else you stated. I do think he is a superstar, but 100 point season? Seriously who is that last D-man to actually do that?

For me he is worth the four first round picks, I would offer sheet him, especially with the current depth in our system with that said Montreal should match the offer every day of the week.

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11-06-2013, 03:27 PM
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Subban should probably be PPG over at least one full season before people starting calling him a 100 point guy.

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11-06-2013, 03:33 PM
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I like Subban a ton, plus he has that right handed shot on top of everything else you stated. I do think he is a superstar, but 100 point season? Seriously who is that last D-man to actually do that?

For me he is worth the four first round picks, I would offer sheet him, especially with the current depth in our system with that said Montreal should match the offer every day of the week.
brian leetch. 91-92.

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11-06-2013, 03:36 PM
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Subban will be signed before the deadline.

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11-06-2013, 03:46 PM
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brian leetch. 91-92.
Thanks, speaks to what I was getting at, I do think Karlsson could threaten that, but even there I have huge doubts, because 100 points out of a D-man these days would be really hard to do.

The team is going to have to be super talented too for this to happen, Coffey was (dreaded Crosby rationale) on pace in the lockout shortened 94-95 season. But this is what I am getting at, it hasn't happened in 20 seasons so that is a pretty enormous claim especially when there is a better point producing D-man that I am not even sure can reach that total.

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