HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Habs lose 6-3 Tank Tank Tank

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-17-2013, 12:52 AM
  #176
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Leblanc looked better than Thomas. Leblanc needs a good look.
He looked really fast on his feet and good on the puck, Higgins comparison looking more and more like a possibility.

Thomas was alright but I don't see him that ahead of the likes of Andrighetto/Bournival/etc.

Leblanc has shown he's clearly the most NHL ready prospect that wasn't in the NHL last season.

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 01:00 AM
  #177
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
He looked really fast on his feet and good on the puck, Higgins comparison looking more and more like a possibility.

Thomas was alright but I don't see him that ahead of the likes of Andrighetto/Bournival/etc.

Leblanc has shown he's clearly the most NHL ready prospect that wasn't in the NHL last season.
I would've rather given a shot to a guy like Leblanc than go out and get Briere.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 01:21 AM
  #178
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're always welcome on the "F Bergevin bandwagon" Right now it's pretty much only me and sometimes Et Le But but we have chips! Lots and lots of chips.
Good to be back. After so long spreading the word about gaineys brain dead moves I had a nice break with Gauthier but it looks like it is time to spin up the ole vitriol generators again.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 01:51 AM
  #179
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're always welcome on the "F Bergevin bandwagon" Right now it's pretty much only me and sometimes Et Le But but we have chips! Lots and lots of chips.



You really think you are taking away my seat at the head table of the 'Fire Bergevin Committee'? Jesus , I'm one of the founders.

Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 05:49 AM
  #180
Nedved
Registered User
 
Nedved's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Cole from 2011-2012? Cause last season's Cole was one of the worst player in the NHL. 13 points in 48 games playing on top lines and PP with no known injury.
he does more than put up points..he creates space for the other 2 on his line, and can go to the tough spaces. players struggle, and the team looked/played a lot better with him in the line-up last year, than after he left.

it's not all about points, it's about team chemistry and it was better with cole, than without him.

Nedved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 06:29 AM
  #181
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I see..but we're supposed to take two periods from Thomas in his first exhibition game seriously......much more seriously than Kristo playing actual pro games in Hamilton, and rather poorly.

Did Kristo look ready for the NHL six months ago? No. What else am I supposed to base it on...his USHL play? I saw him develop for four years too....five actually as he played a season in the USHL after being drafted too. Yes he just had a big year in college..finally...at 22 1/2 years of age.

Before doing that he manage to alienate the organization on at least three occasions - i.e. getting so drunk that he couldn't find his shoes so he decides to walk home without them in -20 weather; not signing with the Habs after his junior season so he could keep the party going despite the Habs wanting him to sign..rightfully so after waiting four years for their top pick in 2008; and then Kristo staying true to his word and being suspended by his club for excessive partying...then going to Hamilton and not doing a very good job of impressing the staff with his play or his attitude on and off the ice.

Kristo never really improved one other facet of his game needed to truly help the Canadiens - he never put on much muscle....the kid is still a skinny rake...the club does not need another forward lacking size, particularly a slight one with a questionable attitude and hockey sense. He didn't hit the gym like the team would have liked...for five years!! He's now 23 attending his first NHL training camp..still slight, still naive, still a long way to go IMO.

The club didn't see him as a fit in the future..so they picked up a younger player who was drafted higher. Maybe Kristo gets a better chance in New York and he takes advantage of it...maybe he's a better fit there. these things happen. The Habs' brass, after five years of the Kristo Wait..decided it wasn't worth it. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a willy nilly decision that simply came out of the blue.

Doesn't mean the trade made no sense - you aren't in the front office WS - you weren't in Hamilton or in negotiations with him, you weren't part of the Habs' development staff who tracked his progress in person and interacted with him, his coaches and teammates....if you look deeper beneath the surface...there were definitely reasons why he was traded..several of them.
You have to stop doing that. If we would count on people who only had access to the organization to talk in a hockey message board, you'd have your own board, and you'd be discussing amongst you and you. It makes no sense on a hockey purpose based on what I know, which is ALWAYS what it should be about.

And I'm sorry, but I've heard all that before. From Ribeiro to Grabovski, those types of guys that were so disruptive for an entire organization who still ended up staying with their new team for quite some time. Something you would think that would not be possible if they were so disruptive.

No, I'm not solely talking 2 periods of Thomas into account. I'm adding what I saw at that rookie camp. I'm adding it to what I saw with the Rangers last year. But I won't lie, and I can't say that I can also compare it to this AHL year, as I didn't see him play there. Okay stats. And while the Rangers management is far from being perfect, I'm also taking into account the fact that they had no problem dealing Thomas despite the highest pick rank, despite his already AHL and NHL experience and despite his younger age. I guess they could be making a mistake too but find it really strange....You also hope that they did their homework and tries to know just as disruptive Kristo was to see if there was somebody to work with attitude wise. Add the fact that he doesn't bring size to this team, something that we lack. And while I did mention that you could trade everybody, even Kristo, the trade made no sense based on who they acquired as he doesn't fill a need unless....he ends up a top 6 scorer with this team. 'Cause if not, Kristo, as a hockey player, as a real chance at becoming one, and Thomas will not be for us in a bottom 6 role.

Clearly unfair and untrue to say that Kristo only had 1 great year, as statswise, he was a PPG in the USHL, had a great 1st season with ND close to PPG, might have struggled year 2, yet not too shabby and had 2 very good seasons after that. So not sure why Kristo had to be ready 6 months ago, as I don't have to tell you that in a prospect world, things change rather quickly even if Kristo happens to be older than some of them, you cannot have the greatest of read on a player who was stuck in that kind of competition for so long. And it's not 10 games at the end of a season who will change that. So in the end, you go back to the guy who drafted him and ask his opinion. I hope they did that. And frankly, I don't see how they can be dissapointed based on how he was statswise in every league he's been in.

As far as hitting the gym...well that I will give you that. I was often expected him to look much bulkier than he did and that didn't seem to improve. Yes, he had his moments as a teenager that was surely not the best. Thing is....Beaulieu also seems to have those moments. Pretty sure Carey Price was not always a model of great behavior etc....Yet, they stick to some of those players. 'Cause they initially believe in them more. Doesn't make them always right as we see tons of mistakes happening and not only by the Habs, but with all the teams in the league. Being a professionnal and on the inside does not absolve you from making mistakes as they are human beings.

And personnally, "being a better fit" is often a statement we use to try to hide the mistake we make. You just portrait me a guy who is disruptive, not a professionnal, and maybe not even a good player. That loves the life, maybe a little too much. So just a couple of games into preseason, he's praised by his coach and would be a better fit for New York City? Well I guess we'll wait for that as a guy with his attitude, cannot be bad for Montreal and great for New York so maybe we'll hear again about the attitude factor....But as of now, Kristo might not be bulky but he's taller, still is bigger, has great speed and the knack for the net. So he is what Thomas is but taller, but surely with a "worst" attitude. But I always believe that when you believe in a kid, you can work with that. They worked it with some of the guys I named before. They don't work it out with others. Also possible that a guy like Leblanc will fit in the latter category too....


Last edited by Whitesnake: 09-17-2013 at 06:35 AM.
Whitesnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 07:15 AM
  #182
ChoseLa
Registered User
 
ChoseLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I would've rather given a shot to a guy like Leblanc than go out and get Briere.
Well Leblanc had an atrocious season when they signed Briere. No prospects was indicating he would be a lock for first line duty or even plain NHL ice time.

ChoseLa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 07:23 AM
  #183
ChoseLa
Registered User
 
ChoseLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
he does more than put up points..he creates space for the other 2 on his line, and can go to the tough spaces. players struggle, and the team looked/played a lot better with him in the line-up last year, than after he left.

it's not all about points, it's about team chemistry and it was better with cole, than without him.
The team played about as good before than after Cole. I'm happy he gave us a good season in 2011-2012 but i'm also happy he left, i dont remember another top-6 player being so useless after having a dominating season. He would be as hated as Gomez if he had stayed here.

ChoseLa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 07:26 AM
  #184
Tuggy
Registered User
 
Tuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Saint John
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,821
vCash: 500
I know people have been starved for hockey but I really wish people wouldn't draw conclusions from preseason games.

Tuggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 07:44 AM
  #185
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Well Leblanc had an atrocious season when they signed Briere. No prospects was indicating he would be a lock for first line duty or even plain NHL ice time.
You leave a spot open. If the youngsters don't battle for that open slot in camp, well, you still have guys like Morrow or Gagné available. Heck, I'd have preferred Vinny Prospal on a 1y deal to Briere's 2y.
Out of all the guys that we could have signed, Briere is probably the guy that fit our team's needs the least. There was absolutely no necessity to sign him before the market even opened.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 07:57 AM
  #186
smack66
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 921
vCash: 500
As a Bruins fan i've got to say based just on last nights game i'm surprise to hear Leblanc got sent down.

smack66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:03 AM
  #187
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smack66 View Post
As a Bruins fan i've got to say based just on last nights game i'm surprise to hear Leblanc got sent down.
Ya, doesn't make any sense to me. He was arguably our better forward yesterday, at least out of all the prospects.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:22 AM
  #188
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,734
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
I know people have been starved for hockey but I really wish people wouldn't draw conclusions from preseason games.
Advice to live by!!

BLONG7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:25 AM
  #189
ChoseLa
Registered User
 
ChoseLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You leave a spot open. If the youngsters don't battle for that open slot in camp, well, you still have guys like Morrow or Gagné available. Heck, I'd have preferred Vinny Prospal on a 1y deal to Briere's 2y.
Out of all the guys that we could have signed, Briere is probably the guy that fit our team's needs the least. There was absolutely no necessity to sign him before the market even opened.
When we signed Brière the market wasnt open, it was an opportunity to get a good top-6 before everyone else. We didnt know at the time who would be available in october. Personnaly i wouldnt want Vinny Prospal on this team. I think that even though the Patch-DD-Briere line has dwarvishness in high quantity, it's gonna be a very good line for us. Even though i'm part of the moar size crowd i can understand why we got him.

ChoseLa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:39 AM
  #190
Beendair Donedat
Registered User
 
Beendair Donedat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
When we signed Brière the market wasnt open, it was an opportunity to get a good top-6 before everyone else. We didnt know at the time who would be available in october. Personnaly i wouldnt want Vinny Prospal on this team. I think that even though the Patch-DD-Briere line has dwarvishness in high quantity, it's gonna be a very good line for us. Even though i'm part of the moar size crowd i can understand why we got him.
No.

When we signed Briere, we had been rejected by Lecavalier and he was scrambling to add a big French name to the team. Nothing more or less.

Reactionary, political, and not in the teams best short or long term interests.

Beendair Donedat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:42 AM
  #191
Kriss E
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
When we signed Brière the market wasnt open, it was an opportunity to get a good top-6 before everyone else. We didnt know at the time who would be available in october. Personnaly i wouldnt want Vinny Prospal on this team. I think that even though the Patch-DD-Briere line has dwarvishness in high quantity, it's gonna be a very good line for us. Even though i'm part of the moar size crowd i can understand why we got him.
That is not a reason. You know there will be players available. You know there will still be players available around Sept-October too. It happens every season so why would it be any different this time? If there isn't and you absolutely need someone, then go through the trade route.
And Briere is not a good top 6 player anymore. He needs a lot of sheltering and that's why he's placed next to DD, the other player that needs it.

In any event, there was no necessity to rush it. We're not talking about a special player here, not even talking about a player we're getting at a very fair price. It's a crap deal. 2 years at 4M with NMC for a 36yo midget on the decline?? Why? Essentially, it's Cole vs Briere. That's what we ended up doing. It's dumb. I'll take Cole.

This deal has ''consolation price for missing on Lecavalier'' written all over it. It's lame.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:43 AM
  #192
ChoseLa
Registered User
 
ChoseLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
No.

When we signed Briere, we had been rejected by Lecavalier and he was scrambling to add a big French name to the team. Nothing more or less.

Reactionary, political, and not in the teams best short or long term interests.
Lecavalier and Briere were the two biggest names out there though. It just happen that aging french ex stars were bought out.

ChoseLa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:51 AM
  #193
ChoseLa
Registered User
 
ChoseLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That is not a reason. You know there will be players available. You know there will still be players available around Sept-October too. It happens every season so why would it be any different this time? If there isn't and you absolutely need someone, then go through the trade route.
And Briere is not a good top 6 player anymore. He needs a lot of sheltering and that's why he's placed next to DD, the other player that needs it.

In any event, there was no necessity to rush it. We're not talking about a special player here, not even talking about a player we're getting at a very fair price. It's a crap deal. 2 years at 4M with NMC for a 36yo midget on the decline?? Why? Essentially, it's Cole vs Briere. That's what we ended up doing. It's dumb. I'll take Cole.

This deal has ''consolation price for missing on Lecavalier'' written all over it. It's lame.
FA market is never too exiting. Briere is a decent pick up in todays hockey. Going to trade route to get a top-6 player also means that we're loosing an asset, i prefer a short deal and keep the assets.

There is two discourses here, one is that we didnt really try to sign Vinny the other is that we were so sorry to miss on Vinnu that we signed a midget puke to please the crowd. I dont believe any of the two. I dont believe in the "sheltered minutes" argument either.

Just wait and see, i'm pretty sure this line is gonna be great.

ChoseLa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:53 AM
  #194
Beendair Donedat
Registered User
 
Beendair Donedat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,693
vCash: 500
Maybe in your mind. UFAs that could have been offered:

Weiss, Horton, Clarkson, Clowe, Lapierre, Clutterbuck, Jagr.

All of those guys would have been a better fit for what the Habs need. Size and scoring in the top 9.

Beendair Donedat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:01 AM
  #195
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,205
vCash: 500
It makes me laugh when guys get on the hate bandwagon so early.

You know it's only because in the end, with very few exceptions, all GM's/coaches get fired and they want the bragging rights to say that they said it from the start.

Hats off!

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:05 AM
  #196
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Maybe in your mind. UFAs that could have been offered:

Weiss, Horton, Clarkson, Clowe, Lapierre, Clutterbuck, Jagr.

All of those guys would have been a better fit for what the Habs need. Size and scoring in the top 9.
Weiss = size? You kidding?
Horton = wanted to go to a non-hockey market, or he would have stayed in Boston
Clarkson = did you see that contract?
Clowe = size yes, speed....hell no. Does that make him a fit?
Lapierre - not a scorer, speed he has, toughness....well....as Katetta does, without the fights.
Clutterbuck = heart and soul, yes. Scoring...maybe
Jagr = we'll see what he has in the tank.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:07 AM
  #197
Beendair Donedat
Registered User
 
Beendair Donedat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,693
vCash: 500
Not "hating" on anything Joe, other than the Briere signing. It was one of the few moves I really didn't like by Bergevin. Thought that was the point of a discussion board - to discuss - or has that changed? I think I'll continue to express my thoughts with or without your approval.

Beendair Donedat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:08 AM
  #198
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Lecavalier and Briere were the two biggest names out there though. It just happen that aging french ex stars were bought out.
The biggest difference is that Lecavalier made sense...soon to be 36 year old Briere? Only preseason but still doesn't look like a good move. Doesn't really change the dynamic of the PP as it still spent most of the time retrieving the puck from behind their net.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
FA market is never too exiting. Briere is a decent pick up in todays hockey. Going to trade route to get a top-6 player also means that we're loosing an asset, i prefer a short deal and keep the assets.

There is two discourses here, one is that we didnt really try to sign Vinny the other is that we were so sorry to miss on Vinnu that we signed a midget puke to please the crowd. I dont believe any of the two. I dont believe in the "sheltered minutes" argument either.

Just wait and see, i'm pretty sure this line is gonna be great.
IMO Briere isn't close to Vinny as a player and I wouldn't be surprised if the latter purposely avoiding signing with Montreal to avoid getting lofty expectations that Briere is receiving despite being so old and coming off bad years. I doubt he's as bad as Samsonov but I don't think it would be that unexpected if he does poorly.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 09-17-2013 at 09:17 AM.
Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:10 AM
  #199
Uber Coca
Registered User
 
Uber Coca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
I know people have been starved for hockey but I really wish people wouldn't draw conclusions from preseason games.
Good luck with that. Even Carey couldn't do it.

Uber Coca is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:10 AM
  #200
Joe Cole
Registered User
 
Joe Cole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Not "hating" on anything Joe, other than the Briere signing. It was one of the few moves I really didn't like by Bergevin. Thought that was the point of a discussion board - to discuss - or has that changed? I think I'll continue to express my thoughts with or without your approval.
I was commenting on the "fire Bergevin" crew. Not your comments about Briere.

Joe Cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.