HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Best two-year peak by a goaltender: Bernie Parent or Dominik Hasek

View Poll Results: Hasek vs Parent
Parent; seasons 1973-74 and 1974-75 16 21.05%
Hasek; seasons 1996-97 and 1997-98 60 78.95%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-17-2013, 06:46 PM
  #1
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,514
vCash: 500
Best two-year peak by a goaltender: Bernie Parent or Dominik Hasek

Basically this, who had the better peak as a goaltender?

Bernie Parent in 1973-74 and 1974-75 or Dominik Hasek 1996-97 and 1997-98?

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 06:50 PM
  #2
Sentinel
Registered User
 
Sentinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,891
vCash: 500
Hasek had the best peak and prime of any goaltender. Career-wise it's a toss-up with Roy, but his peak and prime are literally superhuman.

Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 06:51 PM
  #3
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Eye Monster Invictus
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 62,344
vCash: 500
I would think Tim Thomas is the better comparable.

Edit: For Bernie.

__________________
Saturday night, I like to raise a little harm. I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 06:56 PM
  #4
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,514
vCash: 500
Well I myself picked Hasek but Bernie Parent's numbers in 1973-74 and 1974-75 make it very interesting.

First Bernie Parent's two peak seasons

Season GP W L T MIN GA SO GAA SV%

1973-74 73 47 13 12 4314 136 12 1.89 .933

1974-75 68 44 14 10 4041 137 12 2.03 .919

Now Hasek's peak seasons

Season GP W L T† MIN GA SA SO GAA SV%

1996-97 67 37 20 10 4,037 153 2,177 5 2.27 .930

1997-98 72 33 23 13 4,220 147 2,149 13 2.09 .932

Going by those numbers Bernie Parent had the most wins (91 to 70), better GAA (1.96 to 2.18), more shutouts (24 to 18) while the SV% edge goes to Hasek (.931 to .926).

The numbers are a lot closer than some think with a decent edge going to Parent and add the 2 Conn Smythes and I think the momentum swings towards Parent.


Last edited by livewell68: 09-17-2013 at 07:03 PM.
livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 06:59 PM
  #5
Killion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Westcoast
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,750
vCash: 500
Ken Dryden blows the doors off all these guys.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 07:08 PM
  #6
Ishdul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Lithuania
Posts: 3,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ken Dryden blows the doors off all these guys.
[Citation Needed]

Ishdul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 07:21 PM
  #7
Killion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Westcoast
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
[Citation Needed]
Nope. No citation needed. Thats just a fact... but back to this one, Hasek would be your winner as his peak was sustained over a longer period of time. Additionally, from a purely "entertainment perspective" for the more casual fan, how do you top The Dominators Acrobatics in comparison to Bernies more temporal, steady, calm, cool & collected Jacques Plante stylings? Like comparing a pure wool primary colored Perry Como Cardigan sweater in Parent to some man made fabric in pastels designed by Jacobim Mogatu from Zoolander in Hasek. Im afraid it just doesnt square with me Ishdul.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 08:45 PM
  #8
thom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,262
vCash: 500
But Bernie was incredible look at his stats but still I would give edge to hasik but kids believe me its very close


Last edited by Bear of Bad News: 09-17-2013 at 08:48 PM. Reason: You might not view that as a personal attack, but it is.
thom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:04 PM
  #9
Boom Boom Bear
Registered User
 
Boom Boom Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Coast Salish lands
Country:
Posts: 1,654
vCash: 500
i went with Parent just to be a fogey

Boom Boom Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:05 PM
  #10
Killion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Westcoast
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
But Bernie was incredible look at his stats but still I would give edge to hasik but kids believe me its very close
Oh ho ho ho there thom. I did not say Id take Hasek over Parent I merely said that "his peak was longer & more sustained" and therefore he deserves the nod. Bernie Parent did not light the league on fire & nor did Hasek when they both entered. Took several years for each to reach optimum. Questions arise. Who did they play with? Era's. Supporting casts.... Very complex question & comparison. In as much as Im a 70's guy & goalie, gotta go with Hasek on this one.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:11 PM
  #11
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,407
vCash: 500
Including playoffs and nothing that happens outside of those two years? I'll pick Parent without a second thought. It might be different if you used 1998-99 instead of 1996-97 to replace Hasek embarrassing himself in the 1997 playoffs with his strong 1999 run

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 09:13 PM
  #12
LeBlondeDemon10
BlindLemon Haystacks
 
LeBlondeDemon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,246
vCash: 500
Yeah, its Parent for these two years hands down. But as the K-man says, over a longer period of time its Hasek.

LeBlondeDemon10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 10:20 PM
  #13
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,349
vCash: 500
I think Sawchuk's early 50's peak should be part of the conversation.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 10:45 PM
  #14
Killion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Westcoast
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
I think Sawchuk's early 50's peak should be part of the conversation.
I'll go along with that.


Last edited by Killion: 09-18-2013 at 04:17 PM.
Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-17-2013, 10:55 PM
  #15
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,271
vCash: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Including playoffs and nothing that happens outside of those two years? I'll pick Parent without a second thought. It might be different if you used 1998-99 instead of 1996-97 to replace Hasek embarrassing himself in the 1997 playoffs with his strong 1999 run
Yeah probably needs to be 1999 including playoffs since Bernie had the two cups in his two seasons, but what happened in the 1997 playoffs? 3 games, 1.96 GAA and .926 %? I dont think any attack outside the ice can be held against a goalie in any other way than that it kept him to three games. Ted Nolan was a kinda crazy guy and god knows what happened between them that season.

Darth Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 02:14 AM
  #16
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,992
vCash: 500
Let's see.. A goalie who played for a team that made their goalies look better or a goalie that made his team look better.. hard one

Hasek


Last edited by Bear of Bad News: 09-18-2013 at 08:28 AM. Reason: We don't need an obnoxious amount of whitespace to make your point.
Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 02:36 AM
  #17
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 27,155
vCash: 500
I've argued for Parent's case concerning these two seasons in the top goalies reckoning, but I'm not sure being the MVP of a combined 32 playoff games in the '70s and ending up with two Cups should so easily/categorically trump being a back-to-back Hart winner as a goalie in the '90s. I value my glory days hockey, and I give serious weight to the playoffs in player comparisons, but on a certain level it's also true that a lot of Bernie's numbers and opportunities in those seasons were generated by being in the same kind of environment that gave Chris Osgood his '07/08 numbers and championship - a league powerhouse exhibiting strong defensive acumen with over 110 points in the standings.

Now, it's true that Bernie was obviously a huge part of manufacturing those points in those seasons, and his numbers certainly put his back-ups to shame, but I'm having a hard time trying to find the daylight between these two sets of seasons, honestly. Edge Parent for start to finish excellence plus achieving the ultimate goal both times, but it's really hard for me to imagine (despite the 100s of hours of watching classic/vintage NHL broadcasts, including many of Bernie's greats, I'd still have to admit that to be the case) better goaltending than what I saw from Hasek in that period.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 11:57 AM
  #18
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah probably needs to be 1999 including playoffs since Bernie had the two cups in his two seasons, but what happened in the 1997 playoffs? 3 games, 1.96 GAA and .926 %? I dont think any attack outside the ice can be held against a goalie in any other way than that it kept him to three games. Ted Nolan was a kinda crazy guy and god knows what happened between them that season.
Refusing to take the ice to help your team in the playoffs after you are cleared to play by doctors is embarrassing

Perhaps the fact that Hasek would refuse to play unless 100% contributes to his sterling per-game stats like save %

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 12:21 PM
  #19
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Refusing to take the ice to help your team in the playoffs after you are cleared to play by doctors is embarrassing

Perhaps the fact that Hasek would refuse to play unless 100% contributes to his sterling per-game stats like save %
Hasek managed to do fine under Bowman, Nolan must have pulled a really **** move. Besides outside of that situation Ive never seen him or heard him bail on anything.

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 12:28 PM
  #20
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Hasek managed to do fine under Bowman, Nolan must have pulled a really **** move. Besides outside of that situation Ive never seen him or heard him bail on anything.
It's off-topic to this thread, but he didn't even try to come back for the 2006 playoffs after getting hurt during the Olympics.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 04:06 PM
  #21
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,732
vCash: 500
Hasek.............barely. No disrespect at all to Parent. But the 1998 season is the best I ever saw from a goalie. Hasek was just at that level where you literally felt it was impossible to beat him - before you hit the ice. I prefer his 1999 season over his 1997, but he still won a Hart in 1997.

Bernie could have won the Hart in 1974 but lost to Esposito. Clarke was the most valuable Flyer in 1975 according to the voters. Not saying that means a whole lot, but Hasek beat Lemieux, Kariya and Jagr combined in those two Hart winning seasons.

The difference is that Parent won the Cup both years and was the Conn Smythe winner. That has a lot of bacon to it. But you can't fault Hasek in 1998, he did everything humanly possible to help that team that had no business even being in the postseason. Parent winning the Smythe both years over some Hall of Fame talent doesn't go unnoticed either.

But Hasek was just so darn dominant from a singular standpoint. I have to pick him here.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 04:09 PM
  #22
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Hasek.............barely. No disrespect at all to Parent. But the 1998 season is the best I ever saw from a goalie. Hasek was just at that level where you literally felt it was impossible to beat him - before you hit the ice. I prefer his 1999 season over his 1997, but he still won a Hart in 1997.

Bernie could have won the Hart in 1974 but lost to Esposito. Clarke was the most valuable Flyer in 1975 according to the voters. Not saying that means a whole lot, but Hasek beat Lemieux, Kariya and Jagr combined in those two Hart winning seasons.


I always thought that the lack of a prime Gretzky or Lemieux was a big help to Hasek in Hart voting. I realize Lemieux won the Art Ross in 1996-97, but he really didn't separate himself from his peers anymore with injuries really affecting his game.

Conversely, the fact that Jagr was still being measured by prime Gretzky/Lemieux standards probably hurt him.

Quote:
The difference is that Parent won the Cup both years and was the Conn Smythe winner. That has a lot of bacon to it. But you can't fault Hasek in 1998, he did everything humanly possible to help that team that had no business even being in the postseason. Parent winning the Smythe both years over some Hall of Fame talent doesn't go unnoticed either.

But Hasek was just so darn dominant from a singular standpoint. I have to pick him here.
Until he was outplayed head-to-head in the Conference Finals by Olaf Kolzig. I mean, I realize Hasek played well too and that Kolzig's 1998 run is one of the all-time greats, but we're comparing him to back to back Smythe wins here


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 09-18-2013 at 05:31 PM.
TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 04:53 PM
  #23
Sentinel
Registered User
 
Sentinel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,891
vCash: 500
People: can you seriously look at the rosters of their respective clubs and pick Parent? Seriously? The Flyers of their Golden Age (including one of the best two-way forwards the game has ever known) vs. the Sabres of Holzinger, Wooley, and Barnes? Are you for real?

Sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 05:02 PM
  #24
thom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,262
vCash: 500
Did Clark Mcleash or Leach win a playoff mvp no Bernie won the awards because he stood on his head.

thom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-18-2013, 05:11 PM
  #25
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thom View Post
Did Clark Mcleash or Leach win a playoff mvp no Bernie won the awards because he stood on his head.
tbh Hasek was the real playoff mvp in 99... No one was more important to their team than him

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.