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Please vote for the best goalie

View Poll Results: Please vote for the best goalie
Johnny Mowers 2 11.11%
Seth Martin 3 16.67%
Roger Crozier 9 50.00%
Pete Peeters 4 22.22%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-18-2013, 04:49 AM
  #1
Hawkman
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Please vote for the best goalie

Please vote for the best goalie.

Johnny Mowers
Seth Martin
Roger Crozier
Pete Peeters

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Old
09-18-2013, 04:04 PM
  #2
Killion
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1) Crozier
2) Peeters
3) Mowers
4) Martin

Croziers performances in the regular seasons & playoffs with Detroit were simply outstanding, really brilliant. Put on clinics really so thats what pushed him ahead of Peeters for me however he too had some stellar seasons so bit of a tough call.... then theres Mowers. Stanley Cup Winner, then his career interrupted by WW2. Upon his return to Detroit replaced by Harry Lumley who was quite the young phenom.... as for Seth Martin, I think he only played like 30 games in the NHL, long time WHL player with the Trail Smoke Eaters, Portland etc. Was also the perennial goaltender with the Canadian National Team in the 60's. Solid goaltender, but you'd think if he was all that great he'd have had a serious career in the NHL. I suppose its possible he was making more playing & working in Trail than he would have in the NHL during that era of the 50's & 60's and was happy to live & play there as opposed to wherever else but still. He's from Rossland BC, same place as long time Red Wing Dallas Drake and skiers Kerrin Lee Gartner and Nancy Greene, another Olympic competitor from the 60's.

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Old
09-18-2013, 04:07 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Oh how opinions of Seth Martin would be different if he just barely made the cut to be discussed during the top 40 goalies project, rather than just barely missing the cut.

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09-18-2013, 04:18 PM
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Doctor No
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It's an interesting mix - I'm waiting for the follow-up question, "What's the best kind of apple - Granny Smith, Gala, Honeycrisp, or Fuji?"

Having said that, I'll take Martin, although it's a bit based on speculation (I firmly believe that he could have had a long successful NHL career, and would have if the money had been competitive back when he was playing). Beyond his play, his influence on European hockey has been very great (including serving as a role model to Tretiak, Holecek and Dzurilla). Before the Summit Series, the Russians wanted to know if Canada's goaltenders (Dryden and Esposito) were as good as Martin (it sounds silly now).

Peeters was my #2 choice - he had a tremendous season in 1982-83 (still the only unanimous Vezina winner since the criteria went to voting). Beyond that, he was slightly above average regular season and slightly below average postseason. He never really had a team to take a long way, and he didn't.

Save percentage isn't the be-all, end-all, but the newly-unearthed values from Crozier's career certainly don't do him any favors. I'm working on some things to tease out team effects in older save percentages, and I know that Crozier was seen as sometimes-spectacular, I just would like to see some more consistency.

Mowers had way too short of a presence to compete with this field in my mind.

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09-18-2013, 04:20 PM
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Would love to know how this field of goaltenders was chosen, by the way.

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09-18-2013, 04:46 PM
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Killion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
...and I know that Crozier was seen as sometimes-spectacular, I just would like to see some more consistency.
Ya, Seth Martin was like a "Goaltending God" to Tretiak & as well to Holocek of the Czech National Team, who in turn influenced all who followed from Dzurilla through to Hasek. He worked for Cominco in Trail and did in fact earn as much if not more than he would have in the NHL, and it does seem a bit odd that as Canadas' top Senior Goaltender he wasnt afforded the opportunity. However, with only 6 teams, and goalie depth charts being what they were, very good possibility he'd have wound up in the AHL or IHL somewhere back east so here in the PNW he had some control over matters and his life. The WHL was interesting, in that several players were of the same ilk. Rather than pursuing NHL dreams, some excellent players entirely capable of playing for any one of the 06'rs preferred the westcoast & WHL, the lifestyle, and in a lot of cases making as much if not more than guys in the NHL.... as for Crozier, again, spectacular but ya, window wasnt open all that long on him. Was basically average thereafter as an injury limited his mobility. But those two seasons & playoff runs, ranks right up there with Sawchuk in 67, Dryden in 71, Tretiak in 72, Parent in 74 & 75 and so on down through years.

Oh, and Survey Says?... Granny Smith's.

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09-18-2013, 05:10 PM
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Pete Peeters, just over Crozier. Had a career with better longevity. Peeters didn't win the Conn Smythe in a losing cause like Crozier, but he did lose the Stanley Cup in 1980 so he was there. Peeters also performed great in the 1984 Canada Cup when it counted in that silent era where Canada didn't have Dryden/Vachon or Fuhr/Roy as their best goalies.

Not saying either one deserves a spot in the HHOF, but if I had to pick one to make a case for it would be Peeters.

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09-18-2013, 05:11 PM
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Rob Scuderi
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Pretty sure Martin stayed out of the NHL to keep his pension as a fireman. Harvard standout Bill Cleary is another guy who turned down NHL opportunities because he was making more money selling insurance than he would have in the NHL. I wonder how they would have fared if they had a chance at those post-WHA paydays.

These goalies were all drafted in the MLD which follows the ATD.

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09-18-2013, 10:10 PM
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Hawkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Would love to know how this field of goaltenders was chosen, by the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Scuderi View Post
...These goalies were all drafted in the MLD which follows the ATD.
Rob is correct, but I wanted to chose 4 goalies who didn't finish in the top 44 of the goalies project, see what the knowledgeable posters here thought of them, and learn from these posts. I learned a lot. It's interesting that none of these goalies went in the top 64 in the All Time Draft. Do you guys think John Bouse Hutton (who did go in the top 64) was better than all four of these guys?

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09-18-2013, 10:53 PM
  #10
Killion
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^^^ Bouse Hutton is certainly more celebrated Hawkman, member of the HHOF, but I wouldnt say he was "better". He was a 3 sport all round great athlete of the era, playing goal in Lacrosse and Fullback in Football. Fact is, he simply didnt play a tonne of hockey in terms of number of games per season over the 9 in which he was active, retired for several years then returned for one last hurrah in 1909 or 10. His GAA's was excellent, low in an era when double digits scores were not uncommon, however, he played for the powerhouse Ottawa Silver Seven who pretty much squashed everybody in sight. So youve got a guy in net behind the cream of the crop, 5, 7, 10 game seasons; Challenge Series & Games. Honestly, I dont know how one could rationally claim he'd be "better" than any one of the 4 not included when they almost all played a lot more hockey over much longer periods of time during far more advanced eras in terms of the development of the game.

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09-19-2013, 09:54 AM
  #11
tony d
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Crozier
Peeters
Mowers
Martin

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