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General Champions Hockey League Discussion (mod warning post #200)

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09-19-2013, 01:32 PM
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General Champions Hockey League Discussion (mod warning post #200)

http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=955&cHash=2b7d779461

Quote:
“We will continue to play the men’s World Championship every year including Olympic years, and this especially to give the younger players an opportunity to showcase their development on an international stage.”

“The tournament will continue to take place in the first week of May, with the exception of Olympic years where necessary timing adjustments will be made.”

“We will continue to play with sixteen teams. Most likely in two groups of eight, but this is still subject to discussions with our commercial partner. And lastly, for sportive reasons, the quarterfinal games will be played with the cross-over format.”

Fasel also gave an update on the efforts in re-launching a European club competition, still under the working game “ECC”.

“Together with officials from the European top clubs and leagues, a board has been founded which is now responsible for this project. This ECC Board is right now in the process of contracting a commercial partner for this new top European Club Competition.”

“We hope to conclude this process within the upcoming weeks with our common goal in mind of re-starting this European club-driven league no later than in the 2014-15 season.”

“We all believe in the potential of this project and we are positive that with all stakeholders closely involved, we will put in place a successful, competitive and financially viable league.”
Also plans to discuss future Olympic participation after Sotshi:

Quote:
Finally, the IIHF President thanked his counterparts with the NHL and the NHLPA for ensuring a best-on-best Olympics in Sochi 2014, the fifth consecutive with NHL players’ participation.

“And very shortly after Sochi, we would like to sit down with our friends and partners with the league and the player’s union to discuss NHL participation also in PyeongChang, Korea in 2018.”


Last edited by SoupNazi: 12-24-2013 at 09:26 AM. Reason: Title
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09-19-2013, 07:44 PM
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I may be in the minority, but I believe the NHL will eventually go to Korea.

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09-20-2013, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
I may be in the minority, but I believe the NHL will eventually go to Korea.

if they are smart and want to show the game in a market with millions of people who will probably be watching, they definetly should.

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09-20-2013, 12:38 PM
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I may be in the minority, but I believe the NHL will eventually go to Korea.
Keep dreaming buddy! There will be professional Olympics and World Cup simulataneus from now.

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09-21-2013, 05:34 AM
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Keep dreaming buddy! There will be professional Olympics and World Cup simulataneus from now.
That sentence doesn't make sense.

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09-22-2013, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
I may be in the minority, but I believe the NHL will eventually go to Korea.
I agree with you, the NHL owners have to hold their nose and agree to Olympic participation. And in exchange for Olympic participation the NHL gets the World Cup. If the World Cup doesn't happen, then NHL + Olympics will not happen.

In addition, Fessel (IIHF) rejected Medvedev's (KHL) proposal of holding a WHC once every two years to be played in February.

As for the Champions League, I really hope that that remains strictly a European affair, I have no interest in NHL participation in that.

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09-22-2013, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I agree with you, the NHL owners have to hold their nose and agree to Olympic participation. And in exchange for Olympic participation the NHL gets the World Cup. If the World Cup doesn't happen, then NHL + Olympics will not happen.

In addition, Fessel (IIHF) rejected Medvedev's (KHL) proposal of holding a WHC once every two years to be played in February.


As for the Champions League, I really hope that that remains strictly a European affair, I have no interest in NHL participation in that.
And Medvedev´s respond will be no-KHLers at WHC

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09-22-2013, 05:10 AM
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Olympics is the biggest sports event there is. NHL should be glad for an opportunity to have its athletes there. They cant get better publicity than that anywhere else.

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09-22-2013, 05:12 AM
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And Medvedev´s respond will be no-KHLers at WHC
so KHL would interest even less ppl

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09-22-2013, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I agree with you, the NHL owners have to hold their nose and agree to Olympic participation. And in exchange for Olympic participation the NHL gets the World Cup. If the World Cup doesn't happen, then NHL + Olympics will not happen.

In addition, Fessel (IIHF) rejected Medvedev's (KHL) proposal of holding a WHC once every two years to be played in February.

As for the Champions League, I really hope that that remains strictly a European affair, I have no interest in NHL participation in that.
I'll disagree with you on one thing. I don't think that the World's go to once every two years, they are simply too profitable for the IIHF.

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09-22-2013, 05:25 AM
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Olympics is the biggest sports event there is. NHL should be glad for an opportunity to have its athletes there. They cant get better publicity than that anywhere else.
The Olympics don't really help the NHL all that much. They'll continue to go to the Olympics because the players and their broadcaster want them to go. By 2018 they'll also be looking to expand their markets beyond North America and the hockey heartland of Europe.

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09-22-2013, 05:29 AM
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I'll disagree with you on one thing. I don't think that the World's go to once every two years, they are simply too profitable for the IIHF.
I didn't suggest they should or that the IIHF ever would accept that. That proposal has been out there for a while proposed by the KHL because they plan on an expanded, more NHL like schedule + later play-offs thus negatively impacting the Russian NT at the WHC.

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09-22-2013, 09:55 PM
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I'll disagree with you on one thing. I don't think that the World's go to once every two years, they are simply too profitable for the IIHF.
No fear of that as Fasel said. This has been stated many times before but the highest level Worlds essentially finance the lower division's tournaments (in addition to the women's and girl's tournaments) and those countries need to test their development annually.

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I didn't suggest they should or that the IIHF ever would accept that. That proposal has been out there for a while proposed by the KHL because they plan on an expanded, more NHL like schedule + later play-offs thus negatively impacting the Russian NT at the WHC.
Which is why I think it will have a harder time passing in Russia since they value their national team very highly and would not look plans by their "own" league to hamper that team's chances of success lightly. I also think long season are not for the European sports fans nor players. Finnish league has had 60 game regular seasons with 14 teams and fans have been saying there's ~10 too many. Due to the heavy football influence, fans are used to having the regular season games matter and expanding them diminishes their importance more and more. The players on the other hand return to Europe from NA also for the shorter seasons and lighter schedules. If a player has to choose between staying in NHL and a KHL with an almost equally long season but with also the heavier training of KHL teams (especially Russian coaches), they're going to favor the NHL or other European leagues. Let's face it, no non-Russian wants to spend 11 months of the year in Russia.

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09-23-2013, 03:48 AM
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KHL will have above 65-70 games and will not send players to WHC if necessary. Remember it forever.

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09-23-2013, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
No fear of that as Fasel said. This has been stated many times before but the highest level Worlds essentially finance the lower division's tournaments (in addition to the women's and girl's tournaments) and those countries need to test their development annually.



Which is why I think it will have a harder time passing in Russia since they value their national team very highly and would not look plans by their "own" league to hamper that team's chances of success lightly. I also think long season are not for the European sports fans nor players. Finnish league has had 60 game regular seasons with 14 teams and fans have been saying there's ~10 too many. Due to the heavy football influence, fans are used to having the regular season games matter and expanding them diminishes their importance more and more. The players on the other hand return to Europe from NA also for the shorter seasons and lighter schedules. If a player has to choose between staying in NHL and a KHL with an almost equally long season but with also the heavier training of KHL teams (especially Russian coaches), they're going to favor the NHL or other European leagues. Let's face it, no non-Russian wants to spend 11 months of the year in Russia.
No disputing any of that... it will be interesting, post Sochi, reading the moods of the various federations and leagues and their ideas for the international calendar. But zero chance there will be any changes to the format/scheduling of the WHC.

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09-23-2013, 07:40 AM
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The KHL has been exceptionally good at playing ball with the IIHF thus far, and that isn't likely to change very soon - even if the latter is unwilling to tweak its WHC schedule. After all, the KHL plans to be a popular league in the eyes of all hockey-watching Europe, and trying to directly compete for attention with the WHCs would be very counter-productive to those ambitions.

As stated already, the IIHF needs the yearly WHCs to operate. And if that format is to continue, the timing they have for them right now is pretty much the best one they've got. Having them in mid-season would likely mean no NHLers, not even the meager amount we've got now - and having them at the start of it would mean diminished level of play because most players would be out of shape.

In fact, if there's one instance that could tweak its calendar, it's the NHL. Their season just starts a little too late, and runs a little too long. The SC finals can drag as far in as July on the worst years. And as much as I love watching those games, there's always this little jarring feeling to be doing so in the middle of summer, given how hockey is still technically a winter sport.


IMO the best of all worlds could perhaps be the following: the NHL starts running its training camps in August and the pucks drop in early September, just like they do in Europe. In the spring, the WHCs are pushed back a couple of weeks, so that they end in late May, roughly running concurrently with the SC conference finals. This would release most NHLers without having to break the league. It would also allow the KHL to expand its calendar a little, and still have 'em wrap up before the WHCs start.

This would create a nice straight avenue of top hockey in the spring, with first the Gagarin Cup finals, then the WHC and finally the battle for the Stanley Cup. The WHCs would also have an extended amount of NHLers available, which would help raise the tournament's profile, both in Europe and perhaps slightly in NA as well - more fans of the teams not anymore in contention could tune in to keep watching some of their boys play. This way, some meager sacrifices from each party could create a neatly ideal situation to your average hockey viewer.

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09-23-2013, 08:27 AM
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FiLe, I do respect your poinf of view, but I am not sure if annually WHC is the best option.

I listed to Shalaev, the guy responsible for KHL calendar, he is vicepresident of KHL for hockey operations. The interview was done in the evening of a day when Fasel said this stuff at congress. Shalaev said that he is suprised by Fasel´s word, because NHL and KHL offered new international calendar a few years back. NHL!!

WHC (Year 1) - World Cup of Hockey (Year 2) - WHC (Year 3) - OG (Year 4) - WHC (Year 5/1) etc.

If there is World Cup, playing in september or in february, or whatever time you want. What will happen to WHC? Who will play here? What will be attention of fans/media/sponsors? WHC in May and World Cup in september?? Does not make sense. You cannot organise two top NT tournaments within a few months. The same with WHC in Olympic year.

Shalaev said that KHL made an analysis (fans interest, marketing, finance - as you say WHC is source of money etc). Plus KHL asked 2 companies to make analysis as well. All 3 analysis said that WHC should be played every 2nd year.

If NHL and KHL have the same goal - new international calendar - they will have achieve the goal. There is no power to oppose them. Yes, Fasel can organise WHC every year, but will not have players here.

IIHF would not lose money if WHC is played every 2nd year. IIHF would lose power over international hockey, which does not want. That is a problem.

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09-23-2013, 08:53 AM
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FiLe, I do respect your poinf of view, but I am not sure if annually WHC is the best option.
You know, I agree. I actually never said that the yearly WHC is the best way to go about things, at least as far the top level is considered.

What I was trying to convey was simply what is the best possible model in my mind if we are to keep having the WHC as an annual event.

I'm aware of Shalaev's vision, and I like it a lot, but things are like Jussi said - the WHC is IIHF's main cash cow and required in order to organize lot of the lesser tournaments. Some of which are necessary to have annually for the best possible global development of the game. So it's unlikely we'll see it to pass, even if it would probably be extremely friendly to a viewer living in a country where hockey already is an established sport.

And therefore, there are other avenues one must look into. Trying to bring more harmony to the various yearly spring events could be one step to a more desired direction.

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09-23-2013, 09:36 AM
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FiLe, OK, I see you.

Where is written that IIHF earns more money on annual WHC than every 2nd year? I mentioned analysis, according to Shalaev, which says opposite. World Cup can be another source of money (of course, not all). One World Cup=2+WHC in money talks. Why not?

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09-23-2013, 09:50 AM
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One World Cup=2+WHC in money talks. Why not?
At least for as long as World Cups are run by the NHL and NHLPA, the IIHF doesn't get a pretty penny out of them.

And even if they do come in as an associate in the future, it's fair to assume that their slice of the cake is not nearly as big as it is in WHC's case.

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09-23-2013, 12:25 PM
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At least for as long as World Cups are run by the NHL and NHLPA, the IIHF doesn't get a pretty penny out of them.

And even if they do come in as an associate in the future, it's fair to assume that their slice of the cake is not nearly as big as it is in WHC's case.
NHLPA and NHL want to bring the World Cup back because they would get the money from it. IIHF nor Europe wouldn't get any money from it. The cost of the tournament is much bigger than the Worlds due to the insurance and travel costs, so there wouldn't be much revenue to share.

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09-23-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FiLe View Post
At least for as long as World Cups are run by the NHL and NHLPA, the IIHF doesn't get a pretty penny out of them.

And even if they do come in as an associate in the future, it's fair to assume that their slice of the cake is not nearly as big as it is in WHC's case.
Will televisions/partners pay the same money to IIHF if WHC is 2nd rate tournament every 2nd year? If there are no NHLer and KHLers? NHL and KHL have a deal, they control 90-95% of best players in the world. It is very easy for Bettman and Medvedev to say NO to IIHF.

It is not only about schedulling WHC. Europe wants Champions League. When do you want to play it? There is EHT as well. Another problem. I dont want to cancel EHT, of course not. But we have to choose - do we want EHT+WHC annually or Champions League, KHL or other euro league? We can not have both in status quo.

NHL is ready to agree 10 yrs plan with IIHF. NHL is ready to make february break every second year. And IIHF is stupid enough to ignore it. You know, IIHF even dont want to talk about reforms. IIHF still say "wait, wait a year or so, we will make changes later". Shalaev said in interview that there can be no later... if IIHF wants to have WHC without NHLers and KHLers, it can organise WHC annually. Now is unique time to make a global deal on international calendar - NHL is ready, KHL is ready, IIHF in NOT.

Yes, someone can say that NHL will never make break during season. It will, but we need to negotiate with NHL. IIHF is not able to negotiate with NHL for decades, Russians/KHL are. They have a deal with NHL for 2-3 yrs. IIHF is doing biggest mistake in its history if ignores this NHL/KHL offer.

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09-23-2013, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Will televisions/partners pay the same money to IIHF if WHC is 2nd rate tournament every 2nd year? If there are no NHLer and KHLers? NHL and KHL have a deal, they control 90-95% of best players in the world. It is very easy for Bettman and Medvedev to say NO to IIHF.
None of us know what kind of money is involved and where it will go. However, if the IIHF thinks it'll get better income from an annual WHC than it will from bi-annual WCup in conjunction with the NHL, one does not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out which option they'll pick. No matter what us hockey viewers would love to see.

And I really don't see the KHL quitting on being IIHF's model partner any time soon, given how it's one of the advantages they hold over the NHL while trying to lure over both European players and viewers alike. And even if they one day grow be a league that truly rivals the NHL, they wouldn't probably start playing hardball even then - because then the NHL could simply start flirting with the IIHF to win over some of those lost hearts.

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It is not only about schedulling WHC. Europe wants Champions League. When do you want to play it? There is EHT as well. Another problem. I dont want to cancel EHT, of course not. But we have to choose - do we want EHT+WHC annually or Champions League, KHL or other euro league? We can not have both in status quo.
As a matter fo fact, EHT is toast. They're canning it after this season. It's bound to be replaced by a more loose series of matchups during the NT breaks, not just limited to the current four. And this is not just some speculation, it's a matter that has already been decided for and officially confirmed.

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Yes, someone can say that NHL will never make break during season. It will, but we need to negotiate with NHL. IIHF is not able to negotiate with NHL for decades, Russians/KHL are. They have a deal with NHL for 2-3 yrs. IIHF is doing biggest mistake in its history if ignores this NHL/KHL offer.
Wait. Are you saying that the IIHF should willfully reduce its role and technically let the Russians run the show instead? No wonder they're flippin' a bird to the offered deal, if it threatens to neuter them.

The IIHF may not be perfect, but it's still the best possible party to represent the sport of hockey on the global scale. Sure as hell beats a situation where the NHL and the KHL make whatever backroom deals and however the heck they will.

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09-23-2013, 02:00 PM
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European broadcasters interest in the World Cup has always been small and especially since NHL went to the Olympics. The tv ratings pale in comparison to the ones the World Championships get. If they get one going in 2016 (I'm still slightly sceptical about that), in e.g. Finland there would not be any bidding war for the rights as today's papers indicated, the pay tv networks already have too many properties and struggle to make profit with the ones they have. Were it to go pay tv, the ratings would be abysmal and the whole tournament out of the general public's eyes and ears, ergo it would still be well below the Olympics and Worlds.

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09-23-2013, 02:10 PM
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The IIHF may not be perfect, but it's still the best possible party to represent the sport of hockey on the global scale. Sure as hell beats a situation where the NHL and the KHL make whatever backroom deals and however the heck they will.
This. IIHF's purpose isn't to play nice to NHL or KHL or to the top-8 countries. As the sports world governing body, it works for the sport of hockey. Kummola himself has said years ago already that even if he himself would not have the Worlds during Olympic years, due to the cost of the other smaller tournaments, they basically have to have it annually. It would kill the development of those potentially rising countries, if they didn't get to test their development annually because those countries lack the funding which the IIHF provides. As one known logical person said, "sometimes the need's of the many, outweigh the needs of the few or the one".

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