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[B]Youth movement? Not likely with THIS draft history[/B]

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Old
09-28-2003, 10:47 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
These guys have yet to make it to THE SHOW. The Laffs draft history I set out is littered with "can't miss" prospects who somehow missed. Check back in 3-5 years to see what last year's drafts do.

There is a current mess according to the Laffs' own analysis.
No, there is no current mess. Put your anti-Leaf blinders aside and see that. Steen and Colaiacovo will make the NHL. Bank on that. But if you really want to see 19 and 20 year olds in the NHL on a team aspiring to win the cup, well, suit yourself.
Quote:

Actually if you really read what I wrote you would have noted that the Laff's own analysis as quoted by Gross covered up to the 2002 draft. In the last five years, when Quinn was there for the most part, the Laffs were LAST in the NHL. While the period from 1989 was bad, the last five years have been worse. Remember this is the Laff's own analysis.
I did read what you wrote and its bunk. George Gross' article does nothing to prove your claim about Quinn since he wasnt here as GM in 98 and 99, when most of those players he refers to were drafted.

Quote:
"This particular analysis gets even worse for the Leafs for players drafted in the past five years who have managed to play at least 50 NHL games. Surprisingly Colorado (nine) and New Jersey (seven) are the top two, even though both were slated to draft very late in each round because of their high regular-season finishes. Not surprisingly, the Florida Panthers and Tampa Bay Lightning also had seven players.

The Leafs? I had to pull out my magnifying glass because they were in LAST place with ONE player making the grade.”
Gross fails to take into account when Quinn was hired. So do you.

IF youre going to judge the history of this organizations drafting, go wild. Im not about to debate that. If youre going to moan about what the situation is like now - then you're being far too premature into judging either way. There is no mess, even if you keep telling yourself there is.

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09-28-2003, 10:54 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
Yes and the MLSE will happily continue to shear the sheep that pass for fans in TO. Until something happens that hits the pocketbook, there is little incentive to change. It is one thing to be a fan, it is another to be delusional.
That's kind of why I also have other teams to cheer for too....although I must also add here that 2 of my other favorite teams are Buffalo and Chicago....two teams that haven't really won anything in recent history either.

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09-28-2003, 11:06 AM
  #28
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The Canucks are a 1 line team, the twins havent done anything to really impress me since they have gotten drafted.

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09-28-2003, 12:11 PM
  #29
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Once I hit "Laffs" I stopped reading.

Piss-off.

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09-28-2003, 12:17 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Once I hit "Laffs" I stopped reading.

Piss-off.
He probably won't be back to refute what I, and other posters, have said. He talks big but does nothing to back up his claim.

Nothing but a troll.

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09-28-2003, 12:41 PM
  #31
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close this

this is dumb

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Old
09-28-2003, 12:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oshawafan
The Canucks are a 1 line team, the twins havent done anything to really impress me since they have gotten drafted.
And precisely what does that have to do with my analysis of the Laffs' draft record of futility?

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09-28-2003, 12:57 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBlue
He probably won't be back to refute what I, and other posters, have said. He talks big but does nothing to back up his claim.

Nothing but a troll.
I have answered the sheep.

You have yet to say anything substantial that merits a response. My criticism was of the Laffs' "organization" (and I use that term under protest), I also pointed out Quinn's record while in Vancouver and it is not pretty.

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09-28-2003, 01:10 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBlue
No, there is no current mess. Put your anti-Leaf blinders aside and see that. Steen and Colaiacovo will make the NHL. Bank on that. But if you really want to see 19 and 20 year olds in the NHL on a team aspiring to win the cup, well, suit yourself.

I did read what you wrote and its bunk. George Gross' article does nothing to prove your claim about Quinn since he wasnt here as GM in 98 and 99, when most of those players he refers to were drafted.

[i]
Gross fails to take into account when Quinn was hired. So do you.

IF youre going to judge the history of this organizations drafting, go wild. Im not about to debate that. If youre going to moan about what the situation is like now - then you're being far too premature into judging either way. There is no mess, even if you keep telling yourself there is.

You seem to miss the point - the Laffs rated themselves last in their own draft analysis which included the 2002 draft. Gross was only reporting on what their own document found. I did not include the drafts after 2000 in my analysis because it takes at least three to five years to see what happens when you are drafting 17 year olds as I noted in my original post.

My criticism of the draft record was of the team not just Quinn, as I pointed out prior to his arrival he was regularly screwing up in Vancouver. His response then was as now, ignore the draft and try to buy players. The Canucks under Quinn had one of the highest payrolls in the league. You keep trading away first round draft choices for veterans and you get old in a hurry and have a poorly stocked farm system. There was no farm system left in Vancouver by the time Quinn was through - just a bunch of overpaid veterans. That team had to be blown up and rebuilt - the hiring of Iron Mike accomplished the first part.

Besides although Quinn was the coach since 1998, by all accounts he was part of the draft (daft??) brain trust since arriving.

You seem to have a comprehension problem.

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09-28-2003, 01:20 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
I have answered the sheep.

You have yet to say anything substantial that merits a response. My criticism was of the Laffs' "organization" (and I use that term under protest), I also pointed out Quinn's record while in Vancouver and it is not pretty.
No, you haven't. Pat Quinns' first draft table was in 2000. Anything or anyone drafted prior to the fact is moot. Its obviously something you fail to comprehend, so read it slowly. Please do not go citing George Gross in your little anti-Quinn escapade, because it doesn't help your cause one bit. I've demonstrated that, and you fail to acknowledge or refute any of the points I'v brought up.. I'll tell you again,:

In response to this quote in particular:
Quote:
In the last five years, when Quinn was there for the most part, the Laffs were LAST in the NHL. While the period from 1989 was bad, the last five years have been worse. Remember this is the Laff's own analysis.
It goes like this. Quinn was not in charge in 98 and 99. Therefore, the "last 5 years" argument holds no merit, since most of the prospects who have played in the NHL since then are draftees from 98 and 99 (I refer to Gross' Colorado 9 and Nj 7).

If you look at the picks made from 2000 to today, the prospects are promising, much moreso than the previous regime. So you're either a piss poor judge of talent, or are simply to unintelligent to grasp the fact that Quinn has replenished what was once an empty system.

If you wish to discuss the other aspects of the organization, say so. Your initial crock of crap you call an argument/post said nothing of the sort. I'll gladly take you on if you want to show some respect to the Fans of this team and the posters here.

I await your response. But if its just going to be one of your typical one -line retort 'LOL' or "ROFLAMO', then save it for somebody who cares.

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Old
09-28-2003, 01:37 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
You seem to miss the point - the Laffs rated themselves last in their own draft analysis which included the 2002 draft. Gross was only reporting on what their own document found. I did not include the drafts after 2000 in my analysis because it takes at least three to five years to see what happens when you are drafting 17 year olds as I noted in my original post.
Please seperate the "Quinn" regime from the "Fletcher/Smith/Dryden" regime. If you're wondering why very little prospects are playing for the Leafs right NOW, its because Fletcher and Smith/Dryden left us with very little to begin with. Nobody is debating the fact that this team has historically (pre Quinn) had poor drafts. You cant play what you don't have. Quinn said from the outset that he had to replenish the system. He has done that.

Quote:
My criticism of the draft record was of the team not just Quinn, as I pointed out prior to his arrival he was regularly screwing up in Vancouver. His response then was as now, ignore the draft and try to buy players. The Canucks under Quinn had one of the highest payrolls in the league. You keep trading away first round draft choices for veterans and you get old in a hurry and have a poorly stocked farm system. There was no farm system left in Vancouver by the time Quinn was through - just a bunch of overpaid veterans. That team had to be blown up and rebuilt - the hiring of Iron Mike accomplished the first part.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but That hasn't happened here. Different situations, different contexts. Its not as simple as you make it out to be. Considering he was with a team that had almost nothing coming up to begin with, he's done well. He's made this team competitive and at the same time, replenished a poor system.

Quote:
Besides although Quinn was the coach since 1998, by all accounts he was part of the draft (daft??) brain trust since arriving.
Got any proof for that? Was he running the tables or making the decisions?

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09-28-2003, 01:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBlue
Please seperate the "Quinn" regime from the "Fletcher/Smith/Dryden" regime. If you're wondering why very little prospects are playing for the Leafs right NOW, its because Fletcher and Smith/Dryden left us with very little to begin with. Nobody is debating the fact that this team has historically (pre Quinn) had poor drafts. You cant play what you don't have. Quinn said from the outset that he had to replenish the system. He has done that.



Sorry to burst your bubble, but That hasn't happened here. Different situations, different contexts. Its not as simple as you make it out to be. Considering he was with a team that had almost nothing coming up to begin with, he's done well. He's made this team competitive and at the same time, replenished a poor system.



Got any proof for that? Was he running the tables or making the decisions?
It was in all the reports and press releases when he was hired. Dryden was on record as saying that Quinn's experience as GM was going to be very useful to Toronto.

Was MLSE lying again?

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09-28-2003, 02:05 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
It was in all the reports and press releases when he was hired. Dryden was on record as saying that Quinn's experience as GM was going to be very useful to Toronto.

Was MLSE lying again?
That doesn't answer my question. If you can provide me with the documents, then do so. Otherwise, "Quinn's experience as GM was going to be very useful to Toronto," is vague and does nothing for me.

As far as I can recall, Ken Dryden and Mike Smith were running the ship after Fletcher left. Anders Hedberg was scouting for us at the time.

Look, if you're going to bash the pre-Quinn regimes for drafting, go ahead. Ill be right behind you in line. But since Quinn has got here in 2000, he's replenished the system with promise. No, the system is not bare, thanks to Quinn. Yes, we can put some youth into the lineup in coming years, thanks to Quinn. I really don't particularly care for the history of this team - it holds absolutely no merit when speaking of the Quinn and now, Ferguson regime. And I really don't care what Quinn did in Vancouver. It holds no merit, once again. Because as he stepped down as GM this year, the situation is far from the poor state he left the Canucks with.

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09-28-2003, 08:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
Yes and the MLSE will happily continue to shear the sheep that pass for fans in TO. Until something happens that hits the pocketbook, there is little incentive to change. It is one thing to be a fan, it is another to be delusional.
This is a false dichotomy. Essentially, if we all don't approach hockey from the same perspective as you, we are 'delusional'.

Actually, some of us are far from that. We are 'fans' and we are perfectly aware that MLSE is a business - an ENTERTAINMENT business. If they win and it is entertaining - great. If they lose, and it is entertaining - great. It's a business, get over yourself.

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09-29-2003, 10:07 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
This is an update of a previous post at another board when I was having my usual fun slagging Pat Quinn and his abysmal drafting record. Given Quinn's draft record, fans should NOT be concerned when he trades away high draft picks because he cannot get it right when drafting high anyway. Mind you the Laffs were terrible before Quinn arrived on the scene.

George Gross, normally one of the biggest apologists for the MLSE , has been forced to write what has been painfully obvious to all but the brain dead ? the Laffs do not know how to draft. This is particularly germane at the moment as the team is allegedly going with ?youth? on the back line. Given the past draft history this is not a strategy that appears workable.

Gross had the chance to see the team?s analysis of its draft record and it is not a pretty sight. Bear in mind this comes from a document entitled ?NHL Draft Analysis 1990-2002." which was produced by what is laughingly referred to as a ?scouting department? for this hapless bunch of fools. Gross writes:

?A focal point for analysis by the Leafs brass centred on the percentage of players drafted during the period who subsequently played at least 100 games in the NHL.
Surprisingly, the Carolina Hurricanes were on top, with 25 of their 116 drafted players, or 21.6%, breaking the century mark for NHL games played.
The Hurricanes were followed by the Vancouver Canucks (27 of 127, 21.3%) and the San Jose Sharks (24 of 113, 21.2%). The other top-five clubs were the New Jersey Devils (31 of 147, 21.0%) and Colorado Avalanche (30 of 149, 20.1%)
And where were the Leafs, you might ask? The Buds landed in the marginal territory of 17th overall with a record of 20 of 132, or 15.2%. And there may lie one of the key reasons that the team hasn't won the Stanley Cup in recent memory.
With the exception of the Sharks, all the teams noted above played in the Stanley Cup final in the past 10 years, and New Jersey and Colorado have won it all multiple times.
This particular analysis gets even worse for the Leafs for players drafted in the past five years who have managed to play at least 50 NHL games. Surprisingly Colorado (nine) and New Jersey (seven) are the top two, even though both were slated to draft very late in each round because of their high regular-season finishes. Not surprisingly, the Florida Panthers and Tampa Bay Lightning also had seven players.
The Leafs? I had to pull out my magnifying glass because they were in LAST place with ONE player making the grade.?

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Toront...10/157487.html

Let?s take a closer look at the Laffable drafting record. Go back to the infamous 1989 Draft when they had three first round picks and check it out. The last five years analysed have been particularly brutal and while it is true that you cannot lay the entire blame at the feet of Quinn and his incredibly poorly performing chief scout, Mike Penny for the entire period ? bear in mind that prior to relocating to Toronto, Quinn and Penny did their draft comedy routine on the West Coast. Some of the worst first picks of all-time were made during Quinn?s tenure in Vancouver (with their over-all position noted) including Jason Herter (8), Shawn Antoski (18), Alek Stojanov (7), Libor Polasek (21), Mike Wilson (20), Chris McAllister (40) and Josh Holden (12). A record of true futility.

For fun (well my fun anyway and all those who are not Toronto centric homers) I have compiled a list of Laffs drafts from the 1989 disaster up to 2000. I did not go later as those picks have yet to develop and most would agree if you cannot get it right in your top three picks you are unlikely to mine the depths of the draft successfully. The only draft which may be termed successful for this sad excuse for a franchise would be the 1990 draft.

Note the Laffs have started as low as 57 before this year when they selected the immortal Jeff Farkas in 1997. I have listed the first three picks (except for 1989 where I have listed 4) and the drafting position as well as the player's career games with the Laffs and NHL as well as how he was moved (if he was). I have also noted some notable NHL'ers who were still available when the selection was made and placed them in brackets.

In many cases (as in this year) the Laffs have started far down the draft order but that is more often due to bad GM'ing rather than great play during the season. Read 'em and weep.

1989
3 C Scott Thornton 33 games with Leafs,652 NHL games, traded to Edmonton with Vincent Damphousse, Peter Ing, Luke Richardson, future considerations and cash for Grant Fuhr, Glenn Anderson and Craig Berube, September 1991 (Stu Barnes, Bill Guerin, Bobby Holik)
12 R Rob Pearson 192 games with Leafs, 77 other NHL games, last played in Germany for the Frankfurt Lions in 2001 (Kevin Haller, Olaf Kolzig, Steven Rice)
21 D Steve Bancroft 0 games with Leafs, 6 NHL games, traded to Boston by Toronto for Rob Cimetta in November 1990, playing in the AHL (next three picks- Adam Foote, Travis Green and Kent Manderville, Mike Craig, Patrice Brisebois, Bob Boughner, Greg Johnson, Byron Dafoe, Paul Laus, Ted Drury, Rob Zamuner, Scott Pellerin, Louie DeBrusk, Nicklas Lidstrom, Wes Walz, Jason Woolley, Kris Draper)
66 D Matt Martin 76 games with Leafs, 0 other NHL games, signed as a free agent by Dallas, July 1998, 2002-03 played for the Idaho Steelheads of the WCHL (Jim Cummins, Robert Reichel, Jim McKenzie, Sergei Fedorov, Josef Beranek, Trent Klatt, Aaron Miller, Pavel Bure, Dallas Drake, Derek Plante, Donald Audette, Vladimir Malakhov, Arturs Irbe, Vladimir Konstantinov)

1990
10 D Drake Berehowsky 124 games with Leafs, 493 total NHL games, traded to Pittsburgh by Toronto for Grant Jennings in April 1995 (Trevor Kidd, Turner Stevenson, Brad May, Karl Dykhuis, Keith Tkachuk, Martin Brodeur, Bryan Smolinski, Jiri Slegr, Chris Simon)
31 G Felix Potvin 418 games with Leafs, 681 total NHL games, traded to New York Islanders with 6th round choice in 1999 Entry Draft for Bryan Berard and Islanders' 6th round pick (Jan Sochor) in 1999 Entry Draft in January 1999 (Doug Weight, Geoff Sanderson, Slava Kozlov, Chris Therien)
73 C Darby Hendrickson 235 games with Leafs, 484 total NHL games, traded to Islanders with Sean Haggerty, Kenny Jonsson and Toronto's 1st round choice (Roberto Luongo) in 1997 Entry Draft for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schneider and D.J. Smith in March 1996, traded back to Toronto by the Islanders for a conditional choice in 1998 Entry Draft in October 1996 ? currently playing with Minnesota (Alexei Zhamnov, Sergei Zubov, Gino Odjick, Richard Smehlik, Craig Conroy, Jason York, Robert Lang, Andrei Kovalenko, Peter Bondra, Alexander Karpovtsev, Ken Klee, Valeri Zelepukin, Sergei Nemchinov)

1991
47 C Yanic Perreault,13 initial games with Leafs, 602 total NHL games, traded to LA for 4th round choice in 1996 Entry Draft in July 1994, traded back to Toronto for Jason Podollan and a 3rd round pick in 1999 Entry Draft in March 1999, signed as a free agent by Montreal in July 2001 (Sandy McCarthy, Chris Osgood, Steve Konowalchuk, Michael Nylander, Nathan LaFayette, Dave Karpa)
69 R Terry Chitaroni, 0 games in the NHL (Igor Kravchuk, Mike Knuble, Alexei Zhitnik, Juha Ylonen, Steve Shields)
102 C Alexei Kudashov 25 games with Leafs, returned to Europe 1995 (Mariusz Czerkawski, Bill Lindsay, Dmitri Yushkevich, Sean O'Donnell, Brian Holzinger, Oleg Petrov, Andreas Johansson, Andrei Lomakin, Janne Laukkanen, Brian Savage, Igor Ulanov)

1992
8 C Brandon Convery, 50 games with Leafs, 72 total NHL games,traded to Vancouver for Lonny Bohonos in March 1998, claimed on waivers by Los Angels in November 1998, now playing in Switzerland (Robert Petrovicky, Andrei Nazarov, Sergei Krivokrasov, Sergei Gonchar, Jason Smith, Martin Straka)
23 R Grant Marshall 0 games with Leafs, 559 total NHL games 1994, sent to the Dallas Stars with Peter Zezel as compensation for Leafs' signing Mike Craig, 2001 traded to Columbus, 2003 traded to NJ ,TWO STANLEY CUPS,(Boris Mironov, Valeri Bure, Jeff Shantz, Igor Korolev, Mike Peca, Sergei Brylin, Darren McCarty, Andrei Nikolishin, Mattias Norstrom , Manny Fernandez, Sergei Zholtok, Kirk Maltby, Cale Hulse, Craig Rivet, Eric Cairns, Aaron Gavey)
77 R Nikolai Borschevsky 142 games with Leafs, 162 total NHL games, traded for Calgary's 6th round choice (Chris Bogas) in 1996 Entry Draft in April 1995, signed as a free agent by Dallas in September 1995 and now playing in Russia (Robert Svehla #78, Matthew Barnaby, Jere Lehtinen, Marcus Ragnarsson, Adrian Aucoin, Rem Murray, Ian Laperriere, Stephane Yelle, Nikolai Khabibulin, Anson Carter, Jonas Hoglund, Dan McGillis,)

1993
12 D Kenny Jonsson 89 games and traded to the NYI (where he has played for 9 seasons) with Sean Haggerty, Darby Hendrickson and Toronto's 1st round choice (Roberto Luongo) in 1997 Entry Draft for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schneider and D.J. Smith in March 1996 ( Adam Deadmarsh, Jason Allison,)
19 R Landon Wilson 0 games with Leafs, 294 NHL games, his rights were traded June 1994 with Wendel Clark, Sylvain Lefebvre and a first-round draft pick to the Québec Nordiques (Avs) for Mats Sundin, Garth Butcher, Todd Warriner and a first-round draft pick, 1996 traded to the Bruins, 2000 signed as free agent with the Coyotes,(Mike Wilson, Saku Koivu, Todd Bertuzzi, Jay Pandolfo, Jamie Langenbrunner, Janne Niinimaa, Brendan Morrison, Bryan McCabe, Kevin Weekes, Jamie Rivers, Krzysztof Oliwa, Vaclav Prospal, Marek Malik, Eric Daze, Miroslav Satan, Tommy Salo)
123 R Zdenek Nedved, 31 games with Leafs, 1998 back in Europe (Scott Walker, Michal Grosek, Darcy Tucker, Todd Marchant, Darren Van Impe, Andrew Brunette, Eric Boguniecki, Hal Gill, Mike Grier, Pavol Demitra, German Titov)

1994
16 G Eric Fichaud, 0 games with Leafs, 95 NHL games traded to NYI for Benoit Hogue, New York Islanders' 3rd round choice (Ryan Pepperall) in 1995 Entry Draft and 5th round choice (Brandon Sugden) in 1996 Entry Draft in April 1995, currently in the AHL (Wayne Primeau, Chris Dingman, Dan Cloutier, Deron Quint, Ryan Johnson, Dave Scatchard, Curtis Brown, Jose Theodore)
48 L Sean Haggerty 1 game with Leafs, 14 total NHL games, traded to NYI with Darby Hendrickson, Kenny Jonsson and Toronto's 1st round choice (Roberto Luongo) in 1997 Entry Draft for Wendel Clark, Mathieu Schnieder and D.J. Smith in March 1996, claimed by Nashville from NYIoff waivers in May 2000, now out of hockey (the next three picks were Mathieu Dandenault, Richard Park and Patrik Elias - Chris Murray, Vitali Yachmenev, Jason Strudwick)
64 L Fredrik Modin 167 games with Leafs, 503 total NHL games, October 1999 traded to Tampa Bay for Cory Cross and a seventh-round draft pick in 2001, (Sheldon Souray, Chris Drury, Milan Hejduk, Vaclav Varada, Brad Lukowich, Pavel Trnka, Marty Turco, Jon (Bates) Battaglia, Daniel Alfredsson, Bryce Salvador, Alexander Selivanov, Colin Forbes, Steve Webb, Evgeny Nabokov, Bill Muckalt, Tomas Vokoun, Steve Sullivan, Tyson Nash, Richard Zednik, Tomas Holmstrom, Kim Johnsson)

1995
15 D Jeff Ware 15 games with Leafs, 21 total NHL games, traded to Florida for David Nemirovsky February 1999, signed as a free agent by Columbus in 2001, retired from AHL 2002 (Martin Biron, Petr Sykora, Brian Boucher, Marc Denis, Maxim Kuznetsov, Georges Laraque, Marc Chouinard, Jochen Hecht)
54 R Ryan Pepperall O games with Leafs and 0 NHL games, retired in 2002 after playing for the BC Icemen of the UHL (Vladimir Tsyplakov, Peter Schaefer, Brad Isbister, Alyn McCauley, Sami Kapanen, Daniel Tjarnqvist, Marc Savard, Michal Handzus, Miikka Kiprusoff, Jan Hrdina,
139 G Doug Bonner 0 games for Leafs, 0 NHL games, career minor leaguer, retired in 2001 (Brent Sopel, Clarke Wilm, Denis Hamel, Stephane Robidas, Peter Worrell, P.J. Axelsson, Jean-Luc Grand-Pierre, Filip Kuba)

1996
36 D Marek Posmyk 0 games with Leafs, 19 total NHL games traded to Tampa Bay with Mike Johnson and 5th and 6th round draft picks in 2000 Entry Draft for Darcy Tucker and a 4th round draft pick in 2000 Entry Draft and a conditional draft pick in 2001 Entry Draft in February 2000, signed as a free agent with Continental Zlin (Czech-Rep)August 2001 (Steve Begin, Jan Bulis, Mathieu Garon, Colin White)
50 G Francis Larivee 0 games for Leafs and in NHL, career minor leaguer retired 2001 (Zdeno Chara, Tom Poti, Scott Parker, Oleg Kvasha)
66 D Mike Lankshear 0 games Leafs and NHL, career minor leaguer now playing in Scotland for the Newcastle Vipers (Mark Parrish, Arron Asham, Gordie Dwyer)

1997
57 F Jeff Farkas, 8 games with Leafs, 11 total NHL games, traded to Vancouver for Josh Holden, June 2002, traded to Atlanta for Chris Nielsen and Chris Herperger, January 2003 (next pick-Jani Hurme, Maxim Afinogenov, Ville Nieminen)
84 R Adam Mair, 29 games as Leaf, 89 total NHL games, traded to Los Angeles with a 2nd round draft pick in 2001 Entry Draft for Aki Berg, March 2001, traded to Buffalo with a 5th round pick in 2003 Entry Draft for Erik Rasmussen, July 2002 (Shane Willis, Ivan Novoseltsev,)
111 L Frank Mrazek 0 games with Leafs, 0 NHL games, returned to Czechoslovakia in 2001, (Magnus Arvedson, Jason Chimera, Kyle Calder, Mike York, Matt Cooke, Brian Campbell, David Aebischer, Todd Fedoruk, Ladislav Nagy, Antti Laaksonen, Andrew Ference, Mark Smith, Karel Rachunek)

1998
10 C Nikolai Antropov, 201 games with Leafs (Alex Tanguay, Dmitri Kalinin, Robyn Regehr, Scott Parker, Simon Gagne, Milan Kraft, Jiri Fischer, Scott Gomez, Artem Chubarov)
35 D Petr Svoboda, 18 games with Leafs (Ossi Vaananen, Mike Fisher, Mike Ribeiro, Jonathan Girard, Denis Arkhipov, Brad Richards, Jarkko Ruutu)
69 G Jamie Hodson, O games with Leafs & NHL, in the ECHL (Erik Cole, Brian Gionta, Josef Vasicek, Tommy Westlund, Shawn Horcoff, Petr Schastlivy, Jaroslav Spacek, Jiri Dopita, Tomas Kloucek, Mikael Samuelsson, Chris Neil, Andrei Markov, Ales Kotalik, Pavel Datsyuk, Niko Kapanen, Tyler Arnason, Karlis Skrastins)

1999
24 C Luca Cereda, 0 games with Leafs (Martin Havlat, Alexei Semenov, Alex Auld, Mike Commodore, Jordan Leopold, Sheldon Keefe, Adam Hall)
60 D Peter Reynolds, 0 Leafs & NHL games, re-entered NHL Entry Draft, Carolina's 9th round pick in 2001 Entry Draft (274th Overall) playing in the ECHL (Niklas Hagman, Frantisek Kaberle, Niclas Havelid, Mike Comrie, Branko Radivojevic)
108 L Mirko Murovic 0 Leafs & NHL games, returned to Europe and plays in the Swiss League (Martin Prusek, Martin Erat, Henrik Zetterberg, Radim Vrbata, Radek Martinek, Petr Tenkrat, Alexander Khavanov, Mikko Eloranta)

2000
24 C Brad Boyes 0 games with Leafs & NHL, traded to San Jose with Alyn McCauley and a 1st round pick in 2003 Entry Draft in March 2003 for Owen Nolan (Brian Sutherby, Justin Williams, Nick Schultz)
51 L Kristopher Vernarsky 0 games with Leafs, 14 NHL games for Boston, traded to Boston for Richard Jackman May 2002 (Andreas Lilja, Ivan Huml)
70 G Mikael Tellqvist 3 games with Leafs (Michael Rupp, Alexander Kharitonov, Kurt Sauer, Niclas Wallin)

And this is an organization that intends to rely upon its youth??? LOL and ROTFLMAO.

Good God...thankfully you brought this to our attention.

We can all read the papers...and yes its true the Leafs have a poor drafting record in the past. But why are you making this point...hmmmm, TROLL.

Skidley is offline  
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