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9/22/13 Chicago @ Detroit - 5:00 p.m. highlights post# 243

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09-23-2013, 09:19 AM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
Where are the highlights?
post #243.

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09-23-2013, 07:04 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by 19 for president View Post

Both guys need defensive stay at home dman to be effective offensively. This is why Smith looks confused and bad when paired with Q, and Kronner isn't nearly as effective offensively when paired with a guy like Big E. Kronner's experience allows him to be a better player overall defensively, but he is not near as effective as he was when paired with Stuart.
When Kronwall was with Stu they were on the 2nd pairing. So they had easier match-ups against softer competition. The reason why Kronner doesn't generate nearly as much offense at EVS is because of the tougher match-ups, not because of Ericsson.

Acquire a #1 and a #2 d-man and pair E with Kronner on the second pairing and Kronwall will be at least as impressive as he was when paired with Stuart, possibly better.

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09-23-2013, 07:11 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Ericsson's career high in points is 15. Don't really see an offensive skill set with him either. He's usually left off the PP.
He's also led the team in PK minutes for 2012-13 and played against the toughest competition last season. Oh, he also faced the toughest competition in the playoffs and also had the most PK mins in the playoffs.

Not bad for a forward masquerading as a defenseman!

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09-23-2013, 08:42 PM
  #254
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Did anyone else get a Euro twins vibe from that Tatar/Nyquist 1st goal? Nyquist looked a lot more aggressive on the boards and it looked like the game has slowed down for him. It's the preseason, but i like the fact that Nyquist hasn't made me think twice about him playing for the Wings this season.

Tatar was mucking it up too which was nice to see. I am sure Franzen was somewhere thinking about driving his Dodge Ram.

Wings still look like the slot is their worst nightmare. Teams get way too many quality scoring chances in that area. Sharks abused the slot against the Wings both times they faced them in the playoffs. It was less noticeable last year, but hopefully it's a problem that only is happening with players who won't be on the Wings roster this year.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 09-23-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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09-23-2013, 08:47 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Harnessed in Slums View Post
He's also led the team in PK minutes for 2012-13 and played against the toughest competition last season. Oh, he also faced the toughest competition in the playoffs and also had the most PK mins in the playoffs.

Not bad for a forward masquerading as a defenseman!
Dude.

Ericsson is a good player.

The guy I quoted intended to make his post in my "two way" d thread, I believe.

All I was saying is I think Ericsson is a defensive defenseman. Not offensive enough to be a two-way D.

There's nothing wrong with that either. I think he's good at what he does. My post wasn't intended to "bash" Ericsson by any means


Last edited by Frk It: 09-23-2013 at 09:24 PM.
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09-23-2013, 08:51 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Dude.

Ericsson is a good player.

The guy I quoted intended to make his post in my "two way" d thread, I believe.

All I was saying is I think Ericsson is a defensive defenseman. Not offensive enough to be a two-way D.
I think Ericcson is an above average stay at home dman. Not quite good, but not bad. I didn't like his new contract and think his current deal should be in the same ball park as his new deal he will get sometime during the season. 3.4-3.5 million a year. Unfortunately the Wings have zero leverage and they had no leverage when Ericsson had his last deal negotiated. He is not a four million dollar a year defenseman, but with the cap increasing and the Wings only having a bunch of defensively challenged offensive d-men, i can see E's agent getting Holland to overpay and we all know how much Kenny loves his home grown talent.

He has improved since he got his last contract, but the Wings didn't get any value out of the deal he ended up signing.

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09-23-2013, 09:01 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I think Ericcson is an above average stay at home dman. Not quite good, but not bad. I didn't like his new contract and think his current deal should be in the same ball park as his new deal he will get sometime during the season. 3.4-3.5 million a year. Unfortunately the Wings have zero leverage and they had no leverage when Ericsson had his last deal negotiated. He is not a four million dollar a year defenseman, but with the cap increasing and the Wings only having a bunch of defensively challenged offensive d-men, i can see E's agent getting Holland to overpay and we all know how much Kenny loves his home grown talent.

He has improved since he got his last contract, but the Wings didn't get any value out of the deal he ended up signing.
I think he ends up getting that $4M, though. As you said, he kind of has Kenny/ the team where he wants them in terms of negotiation. The Wings don't have a guy that can slot into his spot very easily in the organization starting next year, and a guy of his calibre would likely fetch more on the open market. I don't think giving him $4M handcuffs the team, though, so I wouldn't hate it. It is less than a million dollar raise, and he has done pretty much everything asked of him.

I also probably value his passing and slapshot more than others on this board, though.

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09-23-2013, 09:09 PM
  #258
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Ericsson does make some brilliant passes from time to time. Some of his outlet passes to spring guys are "wow" good.

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09-23-2013, 09:25 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Ericsson does make some brilliant passes from time to time. Some of his outlet passes to spring guys are "wow" good.
Abby scores on the occasional wrister too. But I wouldn't call him a sniper.

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09-23-2013, 09:25 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
He has improved since he got his last contract, but the Wings didn't get any value out of the deal he ended up signing.
Disagree.

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09-23-2013, 09:46 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Abby scores on the occasional wrister too. But I wouldn't call him a sniper.
Lol I'm not calling him Lidstrom, I'm just suggesting that I think he's a better player than some on here will ever give him credit for. He's good defensively, can move the puck reasonably well (sometimes brilliantly), is typically poised with the puck, can log a good chunk of minutes, and will stick up for teammates if needed.

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09-23-2013, 09:51 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
I think he ends up getting that $4M, though. As you said, he kind of has Kenny/ the team where he wants them in terms of negotiation. The Wings don't have a guy that can slot into his spot very easily in the organization starting next year, and a guy of his calibre would likely fetch more on the open market. I don't think giving him $4M handcuffs the team, though, so I wouldn't hate it. It is less than a million dollar raise, and he has done pretty much everything asked of him.

I also probably value his passing and slapshot more than others on this board, though.
$4M is fine. But the issue is term.

3-4 years is about as far as I go. Beyond that is just asking to have your hands tied.

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09-23-2013, 09:53 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
$4M is fine. But the issue is term.

3-4 years is about as far as I go. Beyond that is just asking to have your hands tied.
Agreed on that. Don't want another Franzen-esque situation.

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09-23-2013, 10:10 PM
  #264
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Agreed on that. Don't want another Franzen-esque situation.
I seriously hope the Wings don't consider Ericsson part of the core. That would be a bigger mistake than giving Franzen that life time deal. Atleast Franzen was playing like a monster when he got his contract.

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09-23-2013, 10:31 PM
  #265
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People *****ing about a defenseman doing what he is good at, defense? Colour (for my Canadian friends) me surprised. Ericcson is currently the best defenseman the Red Wings have. Kronwall is okay, the only thing that helps his cause is his infamous "Kronwalls" but how often do those come around? Like it or not, Ericcson is the best option on defense the Red Wings have until DK, Sproul and Ouellet are ready. $4-5 million for 4-5 years is a fair contract for him, just don't give him a NTC.

Although people thought I was "delusional" when I suggested Holland brought in Cleary in part to light a fire under Tatar's ass and put a stop to the "I'll go over to the KHL" talk so I could be wrong. But how is Tatar doing again? How is his attitude now? Ah, gotcha.

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09-23-2013, 10:38 PM
  #266
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Dude. Nobody said Ericsson sucks. Nobody is b*****ing either.

Someone misunderstood my original post... Where I said I think Ericsson is a defensive defenseman.

I didn't say he sucked. I didn't sat he was bad. All I said was I thought he was somewhat one dimensional.

I think he's a damn good player and I'm glad we have him on our team. Like the rest of the d we have, I just think he has specific strengths to his game.

People need to relax and actually read peoples posts.

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09-23-2013, 10:45 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
People *****ing about a defenseman doing what he is good at, defense? Colour (for my Canadian friends) me surprised. Ericcson is currently the best defenseman the Red Wings have. Kronwall is okay, the only thing that helps his cause is his infamous "Kronwalls" but how often do those come around? Like it or not, Ericcson is the best option on defense the Red Wings have until DK, Sproul and Ouellet are ready. $4-5 million for 4-5 years is a fair contract for him, just don't give him a NTC.

Although people thought I was "delusional" when I suggested Holland brought in Cleary in part to light a fire under Tatar's ass and put a stop to the "I'll go over to the KHL" talk so I could be wrong. But how is Tatar doing again? How is his attitude now? Ah, gotcha.
Wait. You think Holland signed Cleary because Tatar was talking about going tot he KHL?

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09-23-2013, 10:49 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Did anyone else get a Euro twins vibe from that Tatar/Nyquist 1st goal? Nyquist looked a lot more aggressive on the boards and it looked like the game has slowed down for him. It's the preseason, but i like the fact that Nyquist hasn't made me think twice about him playing for the Wings this season.
That's exactly what they are.

That against the grain pass appears on many highlights of Datsyuk>>Zetterberg goals. It brought a tear to my eye as I remembered those glory days of tic-tac-toe plays leading to beautiful goals and opposing teams that couldn't do jack about it.

Quote:
Abby scores on the occasional wrister too. But I wouldn't call him a sniper.
He makes them far more frequently than Abby makes a good offensive play. Ericsson has some fantastic passes, especially in the past season and he's shown it again a couple times in the pre-season. I think he's got a little more upside left in him.
Quote:
Wait. You think Holland signed Cleary because Tatar was talking about going tot he KHL?
Yeah I've run into this argument a few times with people. Some people think Tatar was threatening the Wings with the KHL. All Tatar has ever said is that if the Red Wings were to reject him, he'd go over. But in what way is that a threat? The Red Wings are turning HIM down. He's not turning them down. That's like saying "You can't fire me, I'll quit!" is a threat. Just completely nonsensical.

Tatar has been pretty upfront about his desires. He grew up loving the Wings and wants to make that team. If they don't want him back, and somehow no other NHL team does either, he's going to the KHL. Hardly a threat.

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09-23-2013, 10:53 PM
  #269
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Dude. Nobody said Ericsson sucks. Nobody is b*****ing either.
People have been doing that for the past three years. The whole board will be all over him when he makes his first mistake.

Same thing with Abdelkader. He may not be a top 6 forward but he improved every game playing with Datsyuk last year and will now have the benefit of playing with Zetterberg too. They make it work. Good hockey players usually do. He'll end up with nearly as many goals as Franzen but plays a much more physical game. At least Abdelkader doesn't leave anything on the ice unlike Franzen

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09-23-2013, 10:58 PM
  #270
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Abdelkader did not improve every game.
He got worse in the playoffs -- especially against Chicago where he was a pylon.

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09-23-2013, 11:00 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Wait. You think Holland signed Cleary because Tatar was talking about going tot he KHL?
Quote:
in part
Bring in some old guy that threatens your spot after you talk about going somewhere else? Yea, you're going to push yourself a little more. Simple business tactic, you should know this.

He also signed Cleary because he can be an effective fourth line player and PKer, and that's about it. We'll have to wait and see if he's used as such.

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09-23-2013, 11:01 PM
  #272
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People have been doing that for the past three years. The whole board will be all over him when he makes his first mistake.

Same thing with Abdelkader. He may not be a top 6 forward but he improved every game playing with Datsyuk last year and will now have the benefit of playing with Zetterberg too. They make it work. Good hockey players usually do. He'll end up with nearly as many goals as Franzen but plays a much more physical game. At least Abdelkader doesn't leave anything on the ice unlike Franzen
Abby playing with Datsyuk didn't work last year. Giving Abby another elite center so he is allowed to stay in the top six is mind boggling.

"He may not be a top six forward." Understatement of the year. He isn't a top six forward. He is a 4th line grinder.

I firmly believe Gator will top out at 18ish goals. I know others disagree, but his offensive IQ is abysmal and his shot isn't even good. Franzen is lazy, but he has the talent to score goals. Working hard and not having the talent does not equal success. You value the fact that he works hard, but his hard work doesn't translate into success. Darren Helm is the best example. Works his *** off when he is on the ice and it would take an act from every God ever invented for him to put up 15-20 goals in one season.

Playing Gator on the top line reeks of organizational hubris. "We are the Red Wings and we can make anything work."

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09-23-2013, 11:03 PM
  #273
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That's exactly what they are.

That against the grain pass appears on many highlights of Datsyuk>>Zetterberg goals. It brought a tear to my eye as I remembered those glory days of tic-tac-toe plays leading to beautiful goals and opposing teams that couldn't do jack about it.


He makes them far more frequently than Abby makes a good offensive play. Ericsson has some fantastic passes, especially in the past season and he's shown it again a couple times in the pre-season. I think he's got a little more upside left in him.

Yeah I've run into this argument a few times with people. Some people think Tatar was threatening the Wings with the KHL. All Tatar has ever said is that if the Red Wings were to reject him, he'd go over. But in what way is that a threat? The Red Wings are turning HIM down. He's not turning them down. That's like saying "You can't fire me, I'll quit!" is a threat. Just completely nonsensical.

Tatar has been pretty upfront about his desires. He grew up loving the Wings and wants to make that team. If they don't want him back, and somehow no other NHL team does either, he's going to the KHL. Hardly a threat.
Some fans have irrational expectations of players -- like, Tatar should be willing to play 5-6 years in Grand Rapids and eat cereal out of Mike Babcock's dog's bowl, and work weekends making Crazy Sauce for Little Caesars -- if that's what it takes to be a Red Wing.

People were already up-playing the "character issues' card on Tatar. It's pretty ridiculous.
Here's a guy who came over from Slovakia at age 18 -- who started well and got better every year...
Four years of the AHL -- riding buses making 1/10th of what he should be making, while players worse than him are making $3M a year to sit on their ass and contribute nothing in Detroit.

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09-23-2013, 11:04 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
Bring in some old guy that threatens your spot after you talk about going somewhere else? Yea, you're going to push yourself a little more. Simple business tactic, you should know this.

He also signed Cleary because he can be an effective fourth line player and PKer, and that's about it. We'll have to wait and see if he's used as such.
Not a chance in the word, JDRAKE. Not a ****ing chance.

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09-23-2013, 11:05 PM
  #275
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Abdelkader did not improve every game.
He got worse in the playoffs -- especially against Chicago where he was a pylon.
Based on this Danny Cleary should be playing first line minutes

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