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09-28-2003, 07:46 AM
  #1
hubofhockey
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Toivonen and Raycroft

Anyone out there bold enough to go with those two guys to start the season? Discuss. kpd

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09-28-2003, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubofhockey
Anyone out there bold enough to go with those two guys to start the season? Discuss. kpd
Sure, as long as Toivonen is starting in Providence, and Raycroft is starting in Boston. Otherwise, no way. Yes, Hannu Toivonen is darned good... but why rush him?? Is he ready to take on the rigors of the NHL right now? I don't think so. I'd rather see him play a goodly amount of games in Providence this season, and if he's looking like he's NHL-ready halfway through the season, THEN bring him up. Throwing him into the fire now would be a bad move, IMO... I don't really have anything other than a 'gut feel' to go on about why I think it would be detrimental to his development, but I've learned to trust my instincts over the years.

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09-28-2003, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubofhockey
Anyone out there bold enough to go with those two guys to start the season? Discuss. kpd
I believe this is Exam week for Potvin; I'd play him and Raycroft tonight and then Felix and Toivonen against the Wings/Tigers money.

I'd do it if Toivonen played well against the Wings and Potvin struggled but I think he needs Boynton back in the lineup soon (Thursday's opener may be a bit unrealistic) or will have a tougher time with the Broons best allaround defenseman out for an extended period of time.

Question- if the waiver lists are submitted Wednesday I think (my birthday and the day "Petrocelli's back he got it the Red Sox win" and I think the Buck Dent home run :mad: )also Mark McGwire and Jimmy Carter's birthday- three great Americans

back to waiver draft- can you find out the list and see who the Coyotes put on it and see if Burke is on the list; also, Cujo seems certainty; but since I'm the king of digressing, yah, I'd say that Toivonen and Raycroft YES- but I want to see him have some solid guys infront of him like O'Donnell, McGillis, Boynton, Gill and high-end prospect Jeff Jillson.

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09-28-2003, 08:00 AM
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my overall preference is to still try to land Burke and have him open with Raycroft..

Hannu I still feel should be number 1 in Providence at least until he has an idea of the rigors of a pro schedule, the NHL size rink and cultural differences.
I like him a lot and think he could be the answer to my 10 year quest of Moog's replacement.. In a year or so..

I'd give Potvin 2 more shots this week to see if it was all an aberration or if he's completely lost it.

Shield's can cut my grass and shovel my driveway as far as I'm concerned.

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09-28-2003, 08:14 AM
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The wild card Wally is that Phoenix has 4 goalies- Burke, Boucher, Bierk, and Pelletier. Boucher has worked extensively with thier goalie coach Benoit Allarie and seems to have enough talent and a contract (2 Mil) that the Yotes deem keeping. They just signed Zac Bierk to two years- and he played very well at the end of last season; they like Pelleiter and he has a friendly 2 year way contract and is a phone call away in the AHL. They right now have to expose two. You trade Burke and you still have to expose one of the other three and risk only having two of the four which is certainly not the plan.

Boucher is my take as the starter. The affordable and solid Bierk backs up, and Pelletier on call. They may try and work out a deal that someone takes Burke in the waiver draft so they can't lose any more goalies (one is the limit); get rid of his contract, keep the other three, and get some talent back.

Will it be Boston? With the Knighthood of Bergeron and Zinovjev hovering around its possible the Broons would be able to give up Hilbert and/or other decent prospects (Huml????); purely conjecture on my part- but thats what I do

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09-28-2003, 08:18 AM
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Because the Bruins made the playoffs they will not get an early crack at players exposed in the waiver draft.

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09-28-2003, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Because the Bruins made the playoffs they will not get an early crack at players exposed in the waiver draft.
agreed ...but they can try to wheel a deal before hand with say the Whaleicanes before hand...

Since it's "the contract" that is waived... Somebody like Cujo can't be flipped with out his approval... I don't think,...but also don't know if Burke has a "no trade" clause ...


anybody know ?

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09-28-2003, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubofhockey
Anyone out there bold enough to go with those two guys to start the season? Discuss. kpd
While the kids have played the most impressively in goal so far in the preseason, I think it would be a mistake to have both of them up with the big club to start. Remember, in many respects this is a throw-away season for the Bs because of the upcoming CBA; management has done very little to build the team in the past few seasons.

While we faithful have hopes for this team to do well, in many ways this team could be a step backwards from last season due to the number of inexperienced players in the mix, particularly on D. I think management should wait for at least a dozen regular season games to see what kind of team thay have before risking throwing both the kids into what could potentially be a meat grinder.

i stand by my prediction that the two starting goalies will be Raycroft (backup) and Potvin or Shields.

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09-28-2003, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubofhockey
Anyone out there bold enough to go with those two guys to start the season? Discuss. kpd
I was retiscent about starting Hannu with the big club, but he's very confident and the way he's played so far is not only an inspiration to his teammates but also a big fan draw: it would be Joe, Sammy AND Hannu on the cover of the program guide...

At the same time, the Bruins' defense is a work-in-progress. Why would you want a rookie on the receiving end in the 9-0 Detroit blow-out? Is Hannu as steely-minded as Barrasso?

I would like to see Potvin in more games before deciding if it would be reasonable to make Raycroft number one (60%) with Hannu number two (40%)...

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09-28-2003, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubofhockey
Anyone out there bold enough to go with those two guys to start the season? Discuss. kpd
You know, I would do it if I felt solid goaltending was going to be the breaker for our season...but I don't. We have too many holes/question marks in other positions to worry about whether or not a minor increase in the goaltending department will matter. Why rush the kid for what might be a losing season?

We can't expect spectacular goaltending in any case with what we have now. At best, someone turns out a decent season. A decent season is not enough to make us a contender or even a power house in the East.

If all our other positions were in good shape and we had a chance for a great season, then I go for the guy who is going to do the better job even if he is young. Right now, there is no need to take a gamble on his development.

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09-28-2003, 09:11 AM
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Good knight, ye shall be known as the 'king of digressing' henceforth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH
I believe this is Exam week for Potvin; I'd play him and Raycroft tonight and then Felix and Toivonen against the Wings/Tigers money.

I'd do it if Toivonen played well against the Wings and Potvin struggled but I think he needs Boynton back in the lineup soon (Thursday's opener may be a bit unrealistic) or will have a tougher time with the Broons best allaround defenseman out for an extended period of time.

Question- if the waiver lists are submitted Wednesday I think (my birthday and the day "Petrocelli's back he got it the Red Sox win" and I think the Buck Dent home run :mad: )also Mark McGwire and Jimmy Carter's birthday- three great Americans

back to waiver draft- can you find out the list and see who the Coyotes put on it and see if Burke is on the list; also, Cujo seems certainty; but since I'm the king of digressing, yah, I'd say that Toivonen and Raycroft YES- but I want to see him have some solid guys infront of him like O'Donnell, McGillis, Boynton, Gill and high-end prospect Jeff Jillson.
DKH, can you take a little ribbing? We start with self awareness, right? You dubbed yourself: 'The King of Digressing'. Ye shall be known by this nom de plume henceforth! (Who can ignore the Dr. Jekl/Mr. Hyde quality to your writing style: concise posts sharply contrasted by reader-dizzying, stream-of-conciousness thread-starters...)

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09-28-2003, 09:11 AM
  #12
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Basically, I agree with Jim.

I think everyone agrees Raycroft is NHL-ready. The only question is whether he's going to be a GOOD player in the bigs.

With Toivonen, we're all salivating in anticipation of the next big thing. But even by his own admission he needs to work on the angles of the small rink as well as his stick-handling.

There's very little upside that I can see to keeping both of them. Only one of them would get to play. I think you keep one in Boston to start the year, let the other play every day in Providence. Clearly, the guy you want getting more on-ice experience right now is Toivonen. So let him play every day for a couple of months, THEN decide what to do with him.

I have no faith in Potvin. I have even less in Shields. But assuming there's no Cujo or Burke on the horizon, either is a suitable partner to Raycroft for now. And if in December it's apparent the big B's need to take a shot in the dark to fire up the team....bring up Hannu then.

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09-28-2003, 10:07 AM
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I agree with BruinsCupNow.

I know they're both talented, and they're arguably the two best goalies in camp right now... but they're both at the point in their careers where they need to see rubber.

Start the year with Shields or Potvin backing up Raycroft in Boston and Thomas backing up Toivonen in Providence.

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09-28-2003, 10:47 AM
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I know they're both talented, and they're arguably the two best goalies in camp right now... but they're both at the point in their careers where they need to see rubber.

Start the year with Shields or Potvin backing up Raycroft in Boston and Thomas backing up Toivonen in Providence.
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100% agreed.

I thought the signing of Thomas was supposed to be to help Toivonen adjust to North America and the AHL, as Thomas has played in Finland and can speak the language somewhat. Seems like a healthy game plan to me. Both Raycroft and Toivonen need to see a lot of rubbber, imo.

If Toivonen shines in Prov, and the Boston GK's struggle, then bring him up mid-season for a look-see by all means.

With that said, lets see what happens prior to the waiver draft before we peg anyone as # 1 in Boston (Burke ?). -Piels

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09-28-2003, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubofhockey
Anyone out there bold enough to go with those two guys to start the season? Discuss. kpd
Not at the same time, but to give them consecutive tries as "the guy," no problem. I don't think you can go with a tandem of the two at any one time, though. Need a veteran presence to stabilize.

If Toivonen develops into our starter later into the season, I'd love to see the Bruins go out and get a "teaching goalie" as a backup. Something in the Craig Billington vein.

I don't think that Toivonen is being given an honest shot out of camp, though, so it becomes more of a fantasy argument...

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09-28-2003, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjaggers
DKH, can you take a little ribbing? We start with self awareness, right? You dubbed yourself: 'The King of Digressing'. Ye shall be known by this nom de plume henceforth! (Who can ignore the Dr. Jekl/Mr. Hyde quality to your writing style: concise posts sharply contrasted by reader-dizzying, stream-of-conciousness thread-starters...)
I can't handle the truth ; actually, every know and then I reread my posts before submitting and say what the heck are you doing. My mind is flowing with about 10 topics; and since I just came from watching the Pats game with a bunch of the boys (and girls) and had a few brews I'm not posting nuthin!!! I do have the Broons game on in the background, err, just turned it on and have wonder who is doing what?

I admit I do best early in the morning posting before that first (and only 20 oz cup of coffee); I missed out on the whole ADD thing which I would have used as a crutch had I known it was out there and available.

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09-28-2003, 02:25 PM
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I'm with Wally on this one, if we can somehow aquire Burke or even Joeseph than I'd want that but if not than I'd see how the tandem of Potvin and Raycroft works out and send Hannu down to Providence for seasoning. As for Shields, I'll drive him out of Boston myself.

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09-28-2003, 02:33 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH
I can't handle the truth ; actually, every know and then I reread my posts before submitting and say what the heck are you doing. My mind is flowing with about 10 topics; and since I just came from watching the Pats game with a bunch of the boys (and girls) and had a few brews I'm not posting nuthin!!! I do have the Broons game on in the background, err, just turned it on and have wonder who is doing what?

I admit I do best early in the morning posting before that first (and only 20 oz cup of coffee); I missed out on the whole ADD thing which I would have used as a crutch had I known it was out there and available.
I kid you not: there are two different writers posing as DKH in this forum! Your alter ego digresses like Hunter S. Thompson...

A professor told us it was important to turn your editor off before you start writing. Well, when your alter ego is at the controls, your editor is tied, gagged and locked in a closet...and it's a roller coaster ride for the rest of us!

More than an editor, I think what we all need here is an italicizer!

Gravely spake he, head bowed, unto the King of Digression: Sire, I pledge my sword [pen] and all my vassels [readers] to you!

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09-28-2003, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjaggers
I kid you not: there are two different writers posing as DKH in this forum! Your alter ego digresses like Hunter S. Thompson...

A professor told us it was important to turn your editor off before you start writing. Well, when your alter ego is at the controls, your editor is tied, gagged and locked in a closet...and it's a roller coaster ride for the rest of us!

More than an editor, I think what we all need here is an italicizer!

Gravely spake he, head bowed, unto the King of Digression: Sire, I pl
edge my sword [pen] and all my vassels [readers] to you!

My wife has a Masters degree in english and a law degree from BC and she cringes over my english and writing skills or lack of. I tell her the nuns could no longer use those clickers by the time I arrived on the scene and intimitation was out; so instead of paying attention to reading and 'rathmatic I was trying to figure out if the trade of Rick McLeish for Mike Walton was any good (history proved it horrible by the way); and who could replace Ted Green on our second defense.

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09-28-2003, 03:44 PM
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As a Yotes fan we are in trouble.. There was a poster who dug up what I hope the NHL did not noticed. We have 4 very atractive goalies and can only protect two. Add to this mess we have David LeNeveu in the mix too but thank god we do not have to worry about waiving him.. So it will be a trade but because the Yotes have a gun to there head they will not get all that great of a return.. I hope its Boosh they trade.. lol then we will only lose one of them..

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09-29-2003, 08:05 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH
My wife has a Masters degree in english and a law degree from BC and she cringes over my english and writing skills or lack of. I tell her the nuns could no longer use those clickers by the time I arrived on the scene and intimitation was out; so instead of paying attention to reading and 'rathmatic I was trying to figure out if the trade of Rick McLeish for Mike Walton was any good (history proved it horrible by the way); and who could replace Ted Green on our second defense.


to this day those "clickers" are outlawed in my house...

I could put up with the ruler... but the clicker noise freaks me out...

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09-29-2003, 09:16 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee Wally
to this day those "clickers" are outlawed in my house...

I could put up with the ruler... but the clicker noise freaks me out...
When I was in kindergarten, the nuns told us there was a spanking machine in the basement...

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