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Habs beat the Devils 3-2: Pre-season done the White way!

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Old
09-24-2013, 07:48 PM
  #276
overlords
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
By that logic so was Luke Schenn. N'either were ever prime defenseive defenseman ever during their careers, calling Komisarek that is just habs fan pride.
Mark Fraser is probably up there too.

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09-24-2013, 07:49 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
By that logic so was Luke Schenn. N'either were ever prime defenseive defenseman ever during their careers, calling Komisarek that is just habs fan pride.
You're mistaken. I'm as bitter as anyone for him jumping ship to the Leafs, but to deny that he ever was good, and say he solely fed off of Markov's brilliance while here, is intellectual dishonesty.

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09-24-2013, 07:49 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Losing 1 fight (and not even that badly) does not completely undo you as a person or a professional. This narrative needs to die, already. Komisarek was already having a tough ass season and was always being carried by markov anyway.

So what that he led the league in hits and blocked shots? Put him next to karlsson or subban now and he'd do the same again, most probably. Doesn't mean he'd be playing his position all that well.
No he won't, you gotta be kidding me.

And I think you underestimate what being physically beat up by your biggest enemy can do to a player like Komisarek. Lucic completely emasculated him.

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09-24-2013, 07:49 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
By that logic so was Luke Schenn. N'either were ever prime defenseive defenseman ever during their careers, calling Komisarek that is just habs fan pride.
Who is a prime defensive d-man of today? Not two-way, I mean legit stay at home, no PP time kind of guy.

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09-24-2013, 07:51 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Rushin Joo View Post
No he won't, you gotta be kidding me.

And I think you underestimate what being physically beat up by your biggest enemy can do to a player like Komisarek. Lucic completely emasculated him.
a 'player like komisarek'? Why is he special in this case? He lost a fight. Big ****ing deal. As someone else pointed out, his shoulder injury likely had way more to do with his downfall, not to mention that he already seemed to be on the decline at that point, as early into his career as it was.

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09-24-2013, 07:52 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Who is a prime defensive d-man of today? Not two-way, I mean legit stay at home, no PP time kind of guy.
I like methot a lot.

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09-24-2013, 07:53 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Who is a prime defensive d-man of today? Not two-way, I mean legit stay at home, no PP time kind of guy.
Beauchemin and McDonagh are the two that I can immediately think of, but they both have an offensive dimension. Strictly stay-at-home guys with value are pretty rare these days. Gorges is among the best and he's practically expandable... if that's any indication.

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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
You're mistaken. I'm as bitter as anyone for him jumping ship to the Leafs, but to deny that he ever was good, and say he solely fed off of Markov's brilliance while here, is intellectual dishonesty.
Yes there is a part of me that resents him jumping ship but not up to the point where I'm going to say falsehoods about him. I truly believe he was never that good to begin with, and his stint with the leafs confirms my suspicions.

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09-24-2013, 07:57 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Beauchemin and McDonagh are the two that I can immediately think of, but they both have an offensive dimension. Strictly stay-at-home guys with value are pretty rare these days. Gorges is among the best and he's practically expandable... if that's any indication.
I found Komisarek more intimidating, physical and all than gorges. Pretty even in shot blocking but gorges has a better hockey IQ.

The other 2 are two-way D.

Being a top notch defensive D may not be the best form of a defenseman or worth 7 mil a year(just saying) but komisarek was that. In terms of that category, whatever worth you want to put on it, he was one of the best.

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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I like methot a lot.
That's a good pick. Komisarek in his prime vs methot of today? Are we saying Methot is leaps and bounds ahead? I'd make the case Komisarek was better then, at least equal.

As I said, strictly defensive D aren't a super luxury but in that class he was one of the best in his prime.

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09-24-2013, 08:00 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I found Komisarek more intimidating, physical and all than gorges. Pretty even in shot blocking but gorges has a better hockey IQ.

The other 2 are two-way D.

Being a top notch defensive D may not be the best form of a defenseman or worth 7 mil a year(just saying) but komisarek was that. In terms of that category, whatever worth you want to put on it, he was one of the best.
But being good defensively isn't limited to shot blocking and being a physical presence, which is what I'm trying to demonstrate. Komisarek was, for lack of a better term, a defensive 'goon' with no hockey sense.

If this is what Tinordi is about to become that we should just trade him now. (aka the start of this tangent)

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09-24-2013, 08:06 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
But being good defensively isn't limited to shot blocking and being a physical presence, which is what I'm trying to demonstrate. Komisarek was, for lack of a better term, a defensive 'goon' with no hockey sense.
I get what you're saying but it's a stretch a bit. A defensive goon with no hockey sense? Clearly he had hockey sense, just average at best.

The divide here is saying Komisarek deserves a tiny bit of credit for what he was. It's short sighted to say he only hits and blocks shots. He cleared the front of the net, he had decent-good positioning(not great). He was tough to play against.


This is what I remember:

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09-24-2013, 08:11 PM
  #286
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He also hit really, really hard. Crumpled guys like Emelin did his first year.

for 2 and half years, he was really, really good. One of the best at his role in the game.

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09-24-2013, 08:12 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I get what you're saying but it's a stretch a bit. A defensive goon with no hockey sense? Clearly he had hockey sense, just average at best.

The divide here is saying Komisarek deserves a tiny bit of credit for what he was. It's short sighted to say he only hits and blocks shots. He cleared the front of the net, he had decent-good positioning(not great). He was tough to play against.
I can settle for average at best hockey sense, fine. But it wasn't NHL worthy. I do give Komisarek the 'tiny credit' of working along side Markov and complementing well, there's nothing discrediting about that.

I complemented his crease clearing skills as well well before this. He was not 'tough' to play against though.

He would get beaten by speed and skill, if he couldn't pin his man along the boards. And had difficulty laying the body on his man early on in his career becase he wasn't fast enough to reach his target meaning he was often out of position for hits (never corrected).

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09-24-2013, 08:13 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Well personally, I never recall when he was a monster. I am not a Komisarek basher, at least I don't think, but he was never that good.
Komisarek was good. I think during the 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 seasons he was really starting to blossom. He was physical, he could throw really nice hits, he blocked shots, and I remember him making some really great defensive plays similar to that one Tinordi made last night giving chase from behind and getting the puck from that attacker. I don't know what changed his game. I don't know if its true that Lucic messed up his psyche or what. But he was a good player.

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09-24-2013, 08:16 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
Komisarek was good. I think during the 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 seasons he was really starting to blossom. He was physical, he could throw really nice hits, he blocked shots, and I remember him making some really great defensive plays similar to that one Tinordi made last night giving chase from behind and getting the puck from that attacker. I don't know what changed his game. I don't know if its true that Lucic messed up his psyche or what. But he was a good player.
Wooa.. no I never remember him being that fast, like ever. I'm really doubting this. This is the exact play that Tinordi can make that Komisarek never could.

When Tinordi made it back in time to strip the puck away like that I was thinking only Subban ever manages that play if even then.

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09-24-2013, 08:23 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
When Tinordi made it back in time to strip the puck away like that I was thinking only Subban ever manages that play if even then.
Maybe not at the same speed. But nice 'likely saved a goal' plays from behind. I remember them because they stood out to me at the time.

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09-24-2013, 08:24 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
Maybe not at the same speed. But nice 'likely saved a goal' plays from behind. I remember them because they stood out to me at the time.
I remember he had quite a few of those dives as well. You're right. Still a lack of footspeed though.

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09-24-2013, 08:38 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
He also hit really, really hard. Crumpled guys like Emelin did his first year.

for 2 and half years, he was really, really good. One of the best at his role in the game.
He lined up hits really well, too. Not at the same speed as Subban or Emelin, but his hits were kind of beautiful.

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09-24-2013, 08:41 PM
  #293
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Just to say. If we had Komisarek in his prime rather than say Boullion this D would be scary.

Subban-Gorges
Komsarek-Markov
Murray/Tinordi/Emelin-Diaz

With Emelin, Komsarek, Subban and Murray people would be terrified to get into our zone lol

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09-24-2013, 08:48 PM
  #294
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Some of you are really underrating Komisarek in his good years. He was the top shutdown guy in his conference (and arguably the whole league) for a good year and a half.

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09-24-2013, 08:58 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I like methot a lot.
If there was one guy that I would love to be on our team, it would be Methot!!!

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09-24-2013, 09:06 PM
  #296
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If there was one guy that I would love to be on our team, it would be Methot!!!
I hate that guy, he's such a pain to play against. Would also like him the team.

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09-24-2013, 09:15 PM
  #297
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I didn't want to start a new thread and waste your space, but this Weber guy we got has been great thus far. Has 4 points in the pre-season so far....

As far as his play I'm guessing this guy is not very good defensively?

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09-24-2013, 09:19 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Who is a prime defensive d-man of today? Not two-way, I mean legit stay at home, no PP time kind of guy.
There's a lot of players I could think of...
Murray back in the days, Regher circa five years ago and Scuderi circa Pens cup run.
Right now ? Nikita Nikitin, , Ericsson, Smith, Girardi, Klein, Gorges, Methot, Polak and Alzner are all top 4 Dman and bring next to no offense.

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09-24-2013, 09:20 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Grub View Post
I didn't want to start a new thread and waste your space, but this Weber guy we got has been great thus far. Has 4 points in the pre-season so far....

As far as his play I'm guessing this guy is not very good defensively?
He's not going to shutdown the opposition, but he can be solid. The main drawback are inconsistencies. But I think that one day he'll put it together.

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09-24-2013, 09:21 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Grub View Post
I didn't want to start a new thread and waste your space, but this Weber guy we got has been great thus far. Has 4 points in the pre-season so far....

As far as his play I'm guessing this guy is not very good defensively?
He tries defensively, but he's weak and makes terrible decisions. But the effort is there at least, so he's not completely a lost cause.

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