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09-20-2013, 11:01 AM
  #1
Jetsfareast
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Noel comment on Schiefele

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2013/09/1...y-for-any-role

i don't feel good about it.

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09-20-2013, 11:05 AM
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I wouldn't worry about it. This is the best time to throw him in those different line combinations, now 10 games into the season and it's still happening.. well then worry about it!

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09-20-2013, 11:09 AM
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The season needs to start...

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09-20-2013, 11:12 AM
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Howard Chuck
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Originally Posted by han316 View Post
I wouldn't worry about it. This is the best time to throw him in those different line combinations, now 10 games into the season and it's still happening.. well then worry about it!
10 games into the season and we could have lost valuable points that we wish we had at the end of the regular season. The last two years have been very close. I don't think we can afford to wait to sort things out once the season starts.

Now I'm not an NHL coach, but I think the time is now to put lines together and stick with them until you give them a chance to gel. Is there anyone who doubts what our lines should look like?

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09-20-2013, 11:14 AM
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wpgsilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Chuck View Post
10 games into the season and we could have lost valuable points that we wish we had at the end of the regular season. The last two years have been very close. I don't think we can afford to wait to sort things out once the season starts.

Now I'm not an NHL coach, but I think the time is now to put lines together and stick with them until you give them a chance to gel. Is there anyone who doubts what our lines should look like?
I think you two agree.

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09-20-2013, 11:19 AM
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Noel can say all he wants, but there is a reason the Jets only gave him a one year extension... they aren't totally happy with the job he's doing.

So far in the preseason games Schiefele is playing way better than Jokinen at both ends of the rink. Schiefele would have more points if it wasn't Wright that Schiefele kept setting up.
Schiefele is hungry and wants to play... Jokinen is playing like he wants to be in the Swiss league.

This is just my opinion......but if Noel insists on bringing Kane down to the level of Jokinen instead of playing Kane with Schiefele ( who can actually set him up ).. then Noel will be gone by Christmas.

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09-20-2013, 11:28 AM
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This is exactly the sort of thing that irks me about Noel. I understand saying that young players need to earn their playing time, but this notion that a skilled offensive player needs to begin in the NHL playing "different roles" depending on which line he's on just seems goofy to me. If Scheifele is not able to perform as a creative offensive player at the NHL player, then send him to the minors and let him continue to hone his game. Trying to turn him into a grinder for a year or two at the pro level because Noel puts him on the 3rd or 4th line with guys like Wright, and then hoping that he transforms into a creative offensive player seems like a risky approach to player development.

By the way, I think that Noel's response here pretty much tells us what he plans for his lines. He is trying to dispel the fans' opinion that Sheifele should start with Kane and Seto. It looks like Jokinen is going to start the season with Kane and Seto.

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09-20-2013, 11:29 AM
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I don't look at the content of the message being negative necessarily. Coach is working with his young star to fit into their system and I would expect nothing less from Mark. I am sure Scheifele has no issues with the direction either. That being said I am not sure the coach needed to share the information in an interview....it’s not a big deal it’s just that I don't see the upside?


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09-20-2013, 11:33 AM
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Joe Hallenback
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Translation

I don't want to put any pressure on this Rookie than I have too

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09-20-2013, 11:34 AM
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King Woodballs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Noel
Noel says a young player trying to break into the NHL shouldnít expect to take a purely offensive role right away. There is the odd exception to that rule, but Scheifele apparently isnít it.

ďIf youíre an offensive player, youíll probably get offensive opportunities such as power play,Ē the coach continued. ďBut if youíre in a third-line or fourth-line role, does that change? These are things Iíd like him to think about.
I have to disagree here. The Jets need a number 2 offensive center. It has been blatantly obvious to everyone everywhere.
Yes the kid needs to play d. Everyone does.
He is more valuable as a second line c with Kane and setoguchi then he is with halischuk frolik wright or whomever else you put on the third line.

The jets need secondary scoring as much as better defensive play. He will provide that with Kane and setoguchi.

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09-20-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I don't look at the content of the messagte being negative necessarily. Coach is working with his young star to fit into their system and I would expect nothing less from Mark. I am sure Scheifele has no issues with the direction either. That being said I am not sure the coach needed to share the information in an interview....itís not a big deal itís just that I don't see the upside?
I think he is sharing this publicly because everyone can see that Scheifele has been better with Kane and Seto than Jokinen, so he's taking some of the air out of Scheifele's tires. I don't like this approach one bit. If he thinks Jokinen is better with Kane and Seto, then he should just say it, and get ready for the raised eyebrows.

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09-20-2013, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Translation

I don't want to put any pressure on this Rookie than I have too
Translation...

I'm playing Jokinen on the 2nd line - deal with it.

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09-20-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Chuck View Post
10 games into the season and we could have lost valuable points that we wish we had at the end of the regular season. The last two years have been very close. I don't think we can afford to wait to sort things out once the season starts.

Now I'm not an NHL coach, but I think the time is now to put lines together and stick with them until you give them a chance to gel. Is there anyone who doubts what our lines should look like?
The preseason is exactly the time to experiment with line combinations. We already saw how well Mark worked with Kane and Seto, what would be the point in leaving them together at this point? It will all sort itself out.

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09-20-2013, 11:39 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by ManOnASilverMountain View Post
I have to disagree here. The Jets need a number 2 offensive center. It has been blatantly obvious to everyone everywhere.
Yes the kid needs to play d. Everyone does.
He is more valuable as a second line c with Kane and setoguchi then he is with halischuk frolik wright or whomever else you put on the third line.

The jets need secondary scoring as much as better defensive play. He will provide that with Kane and setoguchi.
I'm really concerned about what this might mean for Scheifele's development. The Jets sent him back to Junior to become a more dominant offensive player, because that is how they envisioned him. Every player needs to be responsible, work hard, etc. But you need to groom a player into their role, not try to have them morph through different roles depending on which line they play on.

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09-20-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Translation...

I'm playing Jokinen on the 2nd line - deal with it.
Quote from Chevy come Dec 23..... Today we are announcing a coaching change

Noel's career path is going to live or die this season with what he does with Jokinen.

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09-20-2013, 11:43 AM
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Once again if we had a competent center ahead of him then I'd be fine with easing him in, but the problem is that we don't. Jokinin has looked like a train wreck with Kane whereas Mark has looked good! By treating Mark with kid gloves he's effectively handcuffing his best forward in Kane and as such the rest of the team.

I am a believer that if you earn something it should be yours and IMO Scheifele has outplayed Olli by a country mile so far. Sometimes you need to take risks to advance and right now it looks line Noel is trying to ultra conservative.

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09-20-2013, 11:44 AM
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Gm0ney
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Noel went on a bit of a ramble yesterday. Ed Tait (I think) was on H&L yesterday afternoon and said Noel kind of went off the rails with his answer and so he asked him again to clarify a bit (I think he said Noel was asked about the same thing 3 times because everyone was baffled with this first answer).

But whatever the case, it's not what you'd call a reassuring sign that Jokinen isn't already pencilled in as 2C and Mark at 3C.

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09-20-2013, 11:44 AM
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surixon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
I think he is sharing this publicly because everyone can see that Scheifele has been better with Kane and Seto than Jokinen, so he's taking some of the air out of Scheifele's tires. I don't like this approach one bit. If he thinks Jokinen is better with Kane and Seto, then he should just say it, and get ready for the raised eyebrows.
Yeah he was grilled by the press pretty good and it will only get worse for him the longer he leaves Olli on the 2nd line.

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09-20-2013, 11:49 AM
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Bob E
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I didn't mind Scheifele's game last night. All the line juggling was likely unsettling for a bunch of guys who tend to play with set linemates. But he seemed to be fine, regardless of who he was out with.

And I'd have no problem having Scheifele start the season on the third line with NHL vets Frolik and Halischuk - who he seems to have some chemistry with also - IF the Jets had a real alternative for the 2nd line. Olli just isn't it. Detroit is famous for bringing their young prospects in, playing a 3rd line role, and after some experience and development, they are ready for a bigger offensive role. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and now Abdelkader come to mind.

Reading between the lines, I think Noel wants Scheifele to learn and play a complete 200 ft game, on the third line, and be sheltered a bit. But even Noel must think Olli in the #2 C spot isn't working too well.

I get the feeling he'll slot Olli in at #2 anyway, regardless if there's no chemistry with Olli, Kane and Seto, thinking the long-term development of Scheifele is too important than rushing him into a #2 C role, even if he's better than Olli right now.

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09-20-2013, 11:52 AM
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ps241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
The preseason is exactly the time to experiment with line combinations. We already saw how well Mark worked with Kane and Seto, what would be the point in leaving them together at this point? It will all sort itself out.
Devilís advocate Potrzebie

You have a young up and coming star centre who has great chemistry with Kane and Seto but it appears by coach's quote in the press he has a problem with some hang over habits that said rookie picked up in juniors. Would it not make sense to play the hell out of that line when it doesn't count and coach Mark up on his positional issues with the guys he is going to be playing with?

Or we could always play Olli with Kane a few more times when it was painfully obvious they had less than zero chemistry last season over a pretty large sample size? I think it makes more sense to Play Olli with Frolik and "fill in the blank" and let them work on chemistry.

Trust me if everything was peachy with Kane, Scheif, and Seto I would back the Olli experiment because itís a long season and Seto is a new piece but it appears the coach isn't "all in" yet? I know Mark can work on his "strait lines" while playing with anyone but I think it makes more sense to do it on the 2nd line with his actual future line mates but hey I am not getting paid to run the ship so I may be way off base.

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09-20-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Once again if we had a competent center ahead of him then I'd be fine with easing him in, but the problem is that we don't. Jokinin has looked like a train wreck with Kane whereas Mark has looked good! By treating Mark with kid gloves he's effectively handcuffing his best forward in Kane and as such the rest of the team.

I am a believer that if you earn something it should be yours and IMO Scheifele has outplayed Olli by a country mile so far. Sometimes you need to take risks to advance and right now it looks line Noel is trying to ultra conservative.

This is sor tof my issue. That being said, Mark got a tonne of icetime in the last game.

but yah, it seems like Noel has a way he wants to bring young players in - which is fine. The problem is, it requires there to be a better option at the top 6 positions then those players. It's becoming obvious Jokinen isn't a better option then Mark, and that means Noel is forced to a)arbitrarily set a barrier for Mark so he can take "the path" or B) abandon "the path" and maximize the use of the assets you have.

unfortunately it seems like Noel's encouragement of schiefele's Defensive growth is mutually exclusive to the maximization of Kanes offensive talent.

I guess it just comes down to what we/he thinks is most important?

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09-20-2013, 11:56 AM
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Noel said..

“What’s his role going to be here?” Noel began. “That’s something I would like for him to think about. Is he going to be top-six? Is it bottom-six?

“I don’t want to put any pressure on him. He’s an offensive player and he always will be. But he should just look at the way he needs to play. Because the roles change.”

.......

is Noel trying to sound smart by doing a merry go round? he said it himself, what type of player Schiefele is. The only glaring weakness for me that Schiefele has, is on the dot taking face-off. the rest he looks ok, to very good good.

man those nice passes, aren't they something? Schiefele to Wright! ohhhhh, awwwwww

i'm not bitter , it's only the pre season but base on those words by Noel.... hmmmmm


Last edited by Jetsfareast: 09-20-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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09-20-2013, 11:58 AM
  #23
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After thinking about it a little more, this could just be one big Noel mind **** of everyone. He does play games a with the media from time to time.
Could be knowing that mark is 99% guaranteed the second line spot, and wants to keep as much pressure off of him for as long as he can.

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09-20-2013, 11:58 AM
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cbcwpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
I didn't mind Scheifele's game last night. All the line juggling was likely unsettling for a bunch of guys who tend to play with set linemates. But he seemed to be fine, regardless of who he was out with.

And I'd have no problem having Scheifele start the season on the third line with NHL vets Frolik and Halischuk - who he seems to have some chemistry with also - IF the Jets had a real alternative for the 2nd line. Olli just isn't it. Detroit is famous for bringing their young prospects in, playing a 3rd line role, and after some experience and development, they are ready for a bigger offensive role. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and now Abdelkader come to mind.

Reading between the lines, I think Noel wants Scheifele to learn and play a complete 200 ft game, on the third line, and be sheltered a bit. But even Noel must think Olli in the #2 C spot isn't working too well.

I get the feeling he'll slot Olli in at #2 anyway, regardless if there's no chemistry with Olli, Kane and Seto, thinking the long-term development of Scheifele is too important than rushing him into a #2 C role, even if he's better than Olli right now.
Totally agree....And this is the whole problem. I agree that on most NHL teams #55 should be on the 3rd or 4th line. Takes the pressure off him, let's him learn the NHL game, keeps under the radar, and whatever he produces is bonus, etc. This is a great plan and one I would like the Jets to do with Schiefele.... except for one thing... Our #2C ( Olie ) sucks so much that he is going to bring down the ability of everyone he ends up playing with, which will hurt the team in the long run.

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09-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
And I'd have no problem having Scheifele start the season on the third line with NHL vets Frolik and Halischuk - who he seems to have some chemistry with also - IF the Jets had a real alternative for the 2nd line. Olli just isn't it.

I get the feeling he'll slot Olli in at #2 anyway, regardless if there's no chemistry with Olli, Kane and Seto, thinking the long-term development of Scheifele is too important than rushing him into a #2 C role, even if he's better than Olli right now.
Pretty much this. As it stands, I don't think using Scheif in a defensive role really makes sense (we had a young centre who was solid defensively last year...) and this article kind of worries me.

I hope we get to see the KSS line meshing by the end of October, but Noel's comments here are kind of worrisome. Jokinen has not been playing like a 2C for over a year now, but we keep thrusting him into that role. That's the definition of insanity.

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