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Old
09-25-2013, 12:57 PM
  #1
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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Bruins/Oilers

I see reasons why Boston/Edmonton should be seriously talking trade... Edmonton has their top 2 centers injured... and really only has 3 nhl proven centers on the roster even when everyone is healthy. Edmonton is also still likely in the market for team toughness 'that can play.'

Meanwhile Boston has a cap problem... even though the team is technically legal compliant, it will probably suffer a huge penalty next year when bonus money is calucated at the end of this season... Boston also has an over-abundance of centers. Ryan Spooner is on the outside looking in and is NHL ready... Soderberg is viewed as a center but has no open roster spot. Even Gregory Campbell could probably handle more mins... but theres no spot for him with Kelly ahead of him on the depth chart.

so my trade is centered around kelly... hes signed for 3 mill a year for 3 more years.. he has a ntc...obviously my proposal is reliant on his being willing to accept a deal to edmonton. Boston doesnt HAVE to make this move but with Kelly signed for 3 more years, this problem wont suddenly go away next year... even if Spooner is forced to wait another year in the AHL, sooner or later this will be an issue that must be dealt with... so why not now?

In this proposal I am including Adam McQuaid... hes a rh shot and obviously a rough and tumble guy. He has cup experience and he will fight anyone... two things the young Oilers need. Boston has three kids ready for nhl duty and McQuaid isnt really well rounded enough to cover for rookie mistakes. He is too talented to be a 7th dman though.

Boston doesnt really need anything back from Edmonton as far as warm bodies but Edmonton would be forced to dump some salary to make this trade work... so im thinking Boston could take on a salary like Ryan Jones and one like Corey Potter. Both guys are on one way contracts but are probably AHL talents at this point in their careers. Maybe with a fresh start the two of them might be useful playoff depth???

Boston basically takes a 2.5 million dollar real money dump and gives Edmonton two very useful cup experiences young vets on long term deals... and in return Edmonton surrenders their first round pick to Boston.

edmonton needs to contend for the playoffs this year or they will have a fan revolt... they desperately need a proven nhl center that can handle 15-18 mins a game while hopkins/gagner are hurt. and even after those two are back... a good faceoff third line center is something the team still needs... gordon has been a fourth liner most his career.

Kelly has even handled second line duty at times... so imho he is an upgrade over Gordon. Edmonton could even be considered to have strong depth at center with kelly added to the mix. A first round pick is a steep price to pay but Kelly/McQuaid are worth that imo.

Boston would need to sign someone like Redden to be their 7th dman if they let McQuaid go. I do believe in all three kids... but a versitile proven vet on a cheap contract is a must if you are trying to break 3 rookies in all at once. I dont view Potter as an NHL talent over the long haul so I would plan to bury him. Ryan Jones has potential to be an NHL talent but needs to get his confidence/healthy/work ethic back. some time in the AHL seems necessary

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09-25-2013, 01:01 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
I see reasons why Boston/Edmonton should be seriously talking trade... Edmonton has their top 2 centers injured... and really only has 3 nhl proven centers on the roster even when everyone is healthy. Edmonton is also still likely in the market for team toughness 'that can play.'

Meanwhile Boston has a cap problem... even though the team is technically legal compliant, it will probably suffer a huge penalty next year when bonus money is calucated at the end of this season... Boston also has an over-abundance of centers. Ryan Spooner is on the outside looking in and is NHL ready... Soderberg is viewed as a center but has no open roster spot. Even Gregory Campbell could probably handle more mins... but theres no spot for him with Kelly ahead of him on the depth chart.

so my trade is centered around kelly... hes signed for 3 mill a year for 3 more years.. he has a ntc...obviously my proposal is reliant on his being willing to accept a deal to edmonton. Boston doesnt HAVE to make this move but with Kelly signed for 3 more years, this problem wont suddenly go away next year... even if Spooner is forced to wait another year in the AHL, sooner or later this will be an issue that must be dealt with... so why not now?

In this proposal I am including Adam McQuaid... hes a rh shot and obviously a rough and tumble guy. He has cup experience and he will fight anyone... two things the young Oilers need. Boston has three kids ready for nhl duty and McQuaid isnt really well rounded enough to cover for rookie mistakes. He is too talented to be a 7th dman though.

Boston doesnt really need anything back from Edmonton as far as warm bodies but Edmonton would be forced to dump some salary to make this trade work... so im thinking Boston could take on a salary like Ryan Jones and one like Corey Potter. Both guys are on one way contracts but are probably AHL talents at this point in their careers. Maybe with a fresh start the two of them might be useful playoff depth???

Boston basically takes a 2.5 million dollar real money dump and gives Edmonton two very useful cup experiences young vets on long term deals... and in return Edmonton surrenders their first round pick to Boston.

edmonton needs to contend for the playoffs this year or they will have a fan revolt... they desperately need a proven nhl center that can handle 15-18 mins a game while hopkins/gagner are hurt. and even after those two are back... a good faceoff third line center is something the team still needs... gordon has been a fourth liner most his career.

Kelly has even handled second line duty at times... so imho he is an upgrade over Gordon. Edmonton could even be considered to have strong depth at center with kelly added to the mix. A first round pick is a steep price to pay but Kelly/McQuaid are worth that imo.

Boston would need to sign someone like Redden to be their 7th dman if they let McQuaid go. I do believe in all three kids... but a versitile proven vet on a cheap contract is a must if you are trying to break 3 rookies in all at once. I dont view Potter as an NHL talent over the long haul so I would plan to bury him. Ryan Jones has potential to be an NHL talent but needs to get his confidence/healthy/work ethic back. some time in the AHL seems necessary
That heap won't get a potential lottery pick.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:02 PM
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If Potter were healthy, I'd do him and Jones for Kelly and Mcquaid for sure.

But Potter's hurt and Jones has been waived.

Still, there is certainly a deal to be made there.

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09-25-2013, 01:03 PM
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sokocanuck
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
If Potter were healthy, I'd do him and Jones for Kelly and Mcquaid for sure.

But Potter's hurt and Jones has been waived.

Still, there is certainly a deal to be made there.
Did you miss the part about the 1st round pick?

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09-25-2013, 01:04 PM
  #5
Cor
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Coles note version of the trade?

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #6
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I like simple proposals.
Where its name for name and I don't have to scavenge through 6 paragraphs to get a jist of the deal.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:07 PM
  #7
haterbehatin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
I see reasons why Boston/Edmonton should be seriously talking trade... Edmonton has their top 2 centers injured... and really only has 3 nhl proven centers on the roster even when everyone is healthy. Edmonton is also still likely in the market for team toughness 'that can play.'

Meanwhile Boston has a cap problem... even though the team is technically legal compliant, it will probably suffer a huge penalty next year when bonus money is calucated at the end of this season... Boston also has an over-abundance of centers. Ryan Spooner is on the outside looking in and is NHL ready... Soderberg is viewed as a center but has no open roster spot. Even Gregory Campbell could probably handle more mins... but theres no spot for him with Kelly ahead of him on the depth chart.

so my trade is centered around kelly... hes signed for 3 mill a year for 3 more years.. he has a ntc...obviously my proposal is reliant on his being willing to accept a deal to edmonton. Boston doesnt HAVE to make this move but with Kelly signed for 3 more years, this problem wont suddenly go away next year... even if Spooner is forced to wait another year in the AHL, sooner or later this will be an issue that must be dealt with... so why not now?

In this proposal I am including Adam McQuaid... hes a rh shot and obviously a rough and tumble guy. He has cup experience and he will fight anyone... two things the young Oilers need. Boston has three kids ready for nhl duty and McQuaid isnt really well rounded enough to cover for rookie mistakes. He is too talented to be a 7th dman though.

Boston doesnt really need anything back from Edmonton as far as warm bodies but Edmonton would be forced to dump some salary to make this trade work... so im thinking Boston could take on a salary like Ryan Jones and one like Corey Potter. Both guys are on one way contracts but are probably AHL talents at this point in their careers. Maybe with a fresh start the two of them might be useful playoff depth???

Boston basically takes a 2.5 million dollar real money dump and gives Edmonton two very useful cup experiences young vets on long term deals... and in return Edmonton surrenders their first round pick to Boston.

edmonton needs to contend for the playoffs this year or they will have a fan revolt... they desperately need a proven nhl center that can handle 15-18 mins a game while hopkins/gagner are hurt. and even after those two are back... a good faceoff third line center is something the team still needs... gordon has been a fourth liner most his career.

Kelly has even handled second line duty at times... so imho he is an upgrade over Gordon. Edmonton could even be considered to have strong depth at center with kelly added to the mix. A first round pick is a steep price to pay but Kelly/McQuaid are worth that imo.

Boston would need to sign someone like Redden to be their 7th dman if they let McQuaid go. I do believe in all three kids... but a versitile proven vet on a cheap contract is a must if you are trying to break 3 rookies in all at once. I dont view Potter as an NHL talent over the long haul so I would plan to bury him. Ryan Jones has potential to be an NHL talent but needs to get his confidence/healthy/work ethic back. some time in the AHL seems necessary
I love how your long winded rationale leads to you sneaking in the Oilers giving up their first round pick for two guys who have some value but are nowhere close to netting even a late first round pick as a pair.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:11 PM
  #8
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haterbehatin View Post
I love how your long winded rationale leads to you sneaking in the Oilers giving up their first round pick for two guys who have some value but are nowhere close to netting even a late first round pick as a pair.
im going to argue that kelly is close to paul gausted in value and nashville gave up a first for him right? kelly is clearly better than dominic moore who routinally gets dealt for a second

a good third line checking center is worth more than a second... less than a lottery pick

two vets with stanely cup experience... one that is willing to fight anyone... one that plays center on a team that has only three nhl caliber centers... i think my value is fair

would boston be willing to give up 2 valuable cup contributors though just to save cap space and pick up a first rounder that might be 15-20 though?

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09-25-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
im going to argue that kelly is close to paul gausted in value and nashville gave up a first for him right? kelly is clearly better than dominic moore who routinally gets dealt for a second

a good third line checking center is worth more than a second... less than a lottery pick

two vets with stanely cup experience... one that is willing to fight anyone... one that plays center on a team that has only three nhl caliber centers... i think my value is fair

would boston be willing to give up 2 valuable cup contributors though just to save cap space and pick up a first rounder that might be 15-20 though?
I'd also argue that Boston isn't interested in a pick for continuing to gut their team. Boston isn't built on stars, it's built on 4 good lines of depth and losing another tough defenceman (ference + mcquaid) and good two-way third liner (peverely + kelly) wouldnt be good for them.

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09-25-2013, 01:14 PM
  #10
haterbehatin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
im going to argue that kelly is close to paul gausted in value and nashville gave up a first for him right? kelly is clearly better than dominic moore who routinally gets dealt for a second

a good third line checking center is worth more than a second... less than a lottery pick

two vets with stanely cup experience... one that is willing to fight anyone... one that plays center on a team that has only three nhl caliber centers... i think my value is fair

would boston be willing to give up 2 valuable cup contributors though just to save cap space and pick up a first rounder that might be 15-20 though?
I would argue that Gaustad is a terrible comparable and just because one team im thirty thought that was fair value, for them at that time doesn't mean you can assume the 29 other teams would pay that price.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:17 PM
  #11
ResilientBeast
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There won't be a fan revolt of we don't make the playoffs this year, look at HF Oils recent polls, we don't expect to be more then an eighth seed at best.

But no, we aren't giving up a first round pick for spare parts, this isn't the right to make some super reactionary trade, wasting future assets for a couple decent players.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:20 PM
  #12
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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There won't be a fan revolt of we don't make the playoffs this year, look at HF Oils recent polls, we don't expect to be more then an eighth seed at best.

But no, we aren't giving up a first round pick for spare parts, this isn't the right to make some super reactionary trade, wasting future assets for a couple decent players.
polls online are done by educated fans that spend alot of time online {is there more than 1000 people that spend time on that website? Revolts are done by groups like taxpayers who are being asked to spend 300 million dollars on a new arena now and kids that need to choose what clothing to ask mommy to buy for them so they can look cool for school

oilers need to make the playoffs now or there will be consequences... not the least of which would be front office people losing their jobs based on how i read the landscape

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09-25-2013, 01:33 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
oilers need to make the playoffs now or there will be consequences... not the least of which would be front office people losing their jobs based on how i read the landscape
As an Oilers fan, one can only hope. Ask how many Oilers fans would be sad to see KLowe gone. Sad really, he was a great Oiler. Terrible GM/President.

As for the deal, its intriguing. However I would think that we would need something a little more high end to trade our pick. Both teams are in positions to make a move like this...well, I'm not certain on Boston's situation...but both pieces would be welcomed with open arms on the Oilers...just the price to pay to get them.

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09-25-2013, 01:34 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
polls online are done by educated fans that spend alot of time online {is there more than 1000 people that spend time on that website? Revolts are done by groups like taxpayers who are being asked to spend 300 million dollars on a new arena now and kids that need to choose what clothing to ask mommy to buy for them so they can look cool for school

oilers need to make the playoffs now or there will be consequences... not the least of which would be front office people losing their jobs based on how i read the landscape
We're not going to make the playoffs making twitch reaction trades selling valuable pieces for less just to try and patch a temporary hole. We're down two centers for 1-2 months, we don't need to grab another bottom six center, we have a couple bottom six centers of our own, I won't even get started on adding another dman, cause we have plenty already. Your examples were deadline deals, and are completely different, since they were actual playoff teams.

Bottom line we aren't throwing our first rounder out just to try and patch temporary holes.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:38 PM
  #15
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Not a chance, no matter how you try to dress it up with long winded explanations.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:46 PM
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Oilers are basically just paying a 1st round pick here to inherit Bostons cap problems.

Even if we shipped you Potter and Jonesy that's 2.25 mil in cap space we are shipping out then we are bringing in another 4.5 between Kelly and Mcquaid. We would still be very close to if not over the cap limit so it doesnt really make sense for us, if anything we would like to unload one of hemsky or N. Schultz and get our cap number down a few mil.

I like Kelly's game but we are already paying Boyd Gordon 3 mil a year for the next 3 and taking on Kelly's contract of 3 mil for the next 3 years would mean we have 6 mil tied up in two bottom 6 players, not good considering the top 6 talent we are going to have to re sign over the next year or so. We are going to have to find some bargain guys for our bottom 6. Hopefully some of our prospects like Khaira and Marco Roy can be effective internal options in the future.

Mcquaid is another 6-7-8 d-man and we already have about a million of them, if smid, petry,ferrence,j. schultz are the top 4 and N. schultz has the 5 spot that leaves 1 spot for either Belov, Larsen, grebeshkov or potter. And Belov and Larsen have both looked good in pre season. Grebeshkov is not great and his contract is a pain but I think Mac-t didnt expect Larsen to be playing so well and Belov was a wild card so he had to hedge his bets with a guy who has NHL experience. Hopefully we can unload him one way or another. Potter can play in the AHL.

And finally we are already without our 2nd round pick for next year. There is no way Mact gives up our 1st unless its part of a package for a bonifide #1 D-man. Not picking in the first two rounds is not good for any team let alone the oilers who need to re stock their offensive prospect cupboard.

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09-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #17
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I love the novella length explanation. No dice from Edmonton's side.

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Old
09-25-2013, 02:00 PM
  #18
Trafalgar Law
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You're not getting a 1st for scraps like McQuaid.

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Old
09-25-2013, 02:15 PM
  #19
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
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Originally Posted by SupremeTeam16 View Post
Oilers are basically just paying a 1st round pick here to inherit Bostons cap problems.

Even if we shipped you Potter and Jonesy that's 2.25 mil in cap space we are shipping out then we are bringing in another 4.5 between Kelly and Mcquaid. We would still be very close to if not over the cap limit so it doesnt really make sense for us, if anything we would like to unload one of hemsky or N. Schultz and get our cap number down a few mil.

I like Kelly's game but we are already paying Boyd Gordon 3 mil a year for the next 3 and taking on Kelly's contract of 3 mil for the next 3 years would mean we have 6 mil tied up in two bottom 6 players, not good considering the top 6 talent we are going to have to re sign over the next year or so. We are going to have to find some bargain guys for our bottom 6. Hopefully some of our prospects like Khaira and Marco Roy can be effective internal options in the future.

Mcquaid is another 6-7-8 d-man and we already have about a million of them, if smid, petry,ferrence,j. schultz are the top 4 and N. schultz has the 5 spot that leaves 1 spot for either Belov, Larsen, grebeshkov or potter. And Belov and Larsen have both looked good in pre season. Grebeshkov is not great and his contract is a pain but I think Mac-t didnt expect Larsen to be playing so well and Belov was a wild card so he had to hedge his bets with a guy who has NHL experience. Hopefully we can unload him one way or another. Potter can play in the AHL.

And finally we are already without our 2nd round pick for next year. There is no way Mact gives up our 1st unless its part of a package for a bonifide #1 D-man. Not picking in the first two rounds is not good for any team let alone the oilers who need to re stock their offensive prospect cupboard.
edmonton does have many 6-7-8 dmen... how many of them would be on an nhl team if they werent members of the oilers? when you grade all the 6-7-8 dmen in the league, edmontons rate as near the bottom of the pile

sure they occupy those depth spots on the team... but they do so in a way that leads to 30th place finishes.

mcquaid is a 6th dman that plays 6th dman on a cup winner... ference played 5th dman on a cup winner...

ference and mcquaid have chemistry... they fill two holes in a way that is worthy of a cup winner... they both play tough... other teams know they are playing against guys that care and will play tough when they go up against ference and mcquaid.

soon edmonton will have a top four that includes kefbloom and schultz and nurse and smid but these guys arent necessarily known for having cup winning experience... or being all that tough physically...

edmonton does have other kids with nhl potential but mcquaid is only signed for 2 years so if another kid does manage to pan out it will be ok... petry is also part of the picture but he has trade value and will be expendable once nurse/kefbloom pass him on the depth charts.

filling holes with adequet people is important... its how boston won its cups... how chicago did too... and la... all the recent teams won because their 5/6 dman and their 3/4 lines are elite

most teams have 4-5-6 superstar types... but its the teams that have the depth that raise above the crowd these days.

chicago had to totally get all new depth guys after their first cup win... they couldnt afford to keep the old guys. boston seems to be headed in the same direction. chicago won a second cup because they took back good young talent when they let byfuglin and ladd and versteeg and barker and those guys all exit.

most those ex chicago players became far more value on the new team then they were in chicago... cup experience is so valuable...

most the teams that dealt for these guys dont regret giving up the first round picks to get them


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09-25-2013, 02:19 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
You're not getting a 1st for scraps like McQuaid.
i guess the trade was

kelly
mcquaid
jones cap hit {will count in minors}
potter money {wont be much of a cap hit}

for
a first

edmonton upgrades from some ahl scrub to kelly for third third/fourth line
and
upgrades some soft guy like schultz or belov in their 6th spot for a legit hw that can play 15-17 mins a night

both mcquaid and kelly are signed on multi year deals... this isnt just a rental.

expecting gordon to be a legit third liner is asking alot... hes never proven he has that ability... he sure as hell cant step up and be a second. kelly can and has on playoff teams...

but kelly has a ntc and boston is able to handle his cap hit if they choose...

without some overpayment i wonder if boston would even bother... a first might not be enough

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09-25-2013, 02:31 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
im going to argue that kelly is close to paul gausted in value and nashville gave up a first for him right? kelly is clearly better than dominic moore who routinally gets dealt for a second

a good third line checking center is worth more than a second... less than a lottery pick

two vets with stanely cup experience... one that is willing to fight anyone... one that plays center on a team that has only three nhl caliber centers... i think my value is fair

would boston be willing to give up 2 valuable cup contributors though just to save cap space and pick up a first rounder that might be 15-20 though?
The circumstances under which Nashville gave up a first for Gaustad were very unusual and that deal was an absolute disaster. I see no reason to believe that this move somehow set the market.

In that case, Nashvegas saw themselves as a contender and believed that toughness up the middle was the key to taking a step forward. Gaustad was the only player of that ilk available, and had sparked small bidding war as a result. So, Nashville dramatically overpaid and I'm sure Poile would love a mulligan on that deal. I'm fairly confident that, at the time, Poile also though he was taking his team to the finals and would be effectively surrendering the 29th or 30th overall too.

That is way, way different from a non-contender sacrificing a probably lottery pick for a third line center at this point in the year. And, that third line center is missing the element that actually made Gaustad so overpriced to start (physicality).

You can spin it however you want, but that trade was Boston getting rid of depth assets in exchange for a prime draft pick.

Not realistic at all.

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Old
09-25-2013, 02:34 PM
  #22
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Usually when you have to type out paragraphs of spin along with your trade, it's not good value

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09-25-2013, 02:43 PM
  #23
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Depth isn't a bad thing to have. Injuries will happen. And if Kelly's cap hit is such a problem next year we still have 2 compliance buyouts to use. Besides, Edmonton wouldn't pay that price anyway.

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Old
09-25-2013, 02:43 PM
  #24
Mr Tarkanian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
i guess the trade was

kelly
mcquaid
jones cap hit {will count in minors}
potter money {wont be much of a cap hit}

for
a first

edmonton upgrades from some ahl scrub to kelly for third third/fourth line
and
upgrades some soft guy like schultz or belov in their 6th spot for a legit hw that can play 15-17 mins a night

both mcquaid and kelly are signed on multi year deals... this isnt just a rental.

expecting gordon to be a legit third liner is asking alot... hes never proven he has that ability... he sure as hell cant step up and be a second. kelly can and has on playoff teams...

but kelly has a ntc and boston is able to handle his cap hit if they choose...

without some overpayment i wonder if boston would even bother... a first might not be enough
Would rather keep the first, we can fill our center issues internally. Say it however you want Kelly and Maquaid wont get you a mid-high first.


Last edited by Mr Tarkanian: 09-25-2013 at 02:48 PM.
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09-25-2013, 02:44 PM
  #25
Djp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
im going to argue that kelly is close to paul gausted in value and nashville gave up a first for him right? kelly is clearly better than dominic moore who routinally gets dealt for a second

a good third line checking center is worth more than a second... less than a lottery pick

two vets with stanely cup experience... one that is willing to fight anyone... one that plays center on a team that has only three nhl caliber centers... i think my value is fair

would boston be willing to give up 2 valuable cup contributors though just to save cap space and pick up a first rounder that might be 15-20 though?
Gaustead was a deadline deal where demand is higher. Guasted + 4th for a 1st...not Gaustead alone for a 1st---from a certain playoff team.

A 3rd line center like Kelly doesnt get you a 1st. Kelly + a bottom pairing defenseman who are a dime a dozen in this league doesnt get you a 1st round pick.

you propose a bunch of lose pieces of trash for a 1st.

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