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09-25-2013, 09:41 AM
  #226
McCupofOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Yeh ..who needs Nichushkin when you have Smyth as the top line LW.
I think with Fedun\Marincin\Hunt\Klefbom\Gernat etc in the organization picking this highly skilled winger that has the body of Joensuu would have been better than Nurse.
Nurse looked great but wont be a factor for another 2 yrs.
Smyth is only there because of injury. Basically, Perron wouldn't be here if Nichushkin was and in the short term, i would much rather have Perron or for that matter, i would much much rather have Perron+Nurse long term than just Nichushkin.
Also, Nurse is already a factor (albeit against preseason rosters). I think he'll be quite the factor in 2 years if he keeps on his current trajectory.

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09-25-2013, 09:45 AM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaGu View Post
edit: regarding Nurse vs. Nichushkin

Maybe I am off the mark here but it seems to me that it is way more difficult to impress as a young defenseman than as a young forward?...

IMO the jury on these guys is out until 14/15, or even 15/16. By that time we should have a very good idea of Nichushkin and, if all goes well, about Nurse (I base that on how he looked this pre-season, otherwise I would give him another couple of years).

Oh, and if both are doing good (as they are right now) I don't see any reason for any supporter to regret his/hers team's pick.
I'm going to warn you that HFOil isn't the place for logical thought. It's a place for certain people to try and swing group think in their direction.

But you're completely correct. It's unfair to compare an 18 year old forward and an 18 year old d-man. Different positions. Everybody (except some posters on here) knows that defensemen take a little bit longer to mature and grow. Playing Nurse in our line-up this season wouldn't have been setting him up for success.

I think a lot of people on here are bent with the idea that you need to have your top pick in your line-up the following season, and Nichushkin was probably the lowest ranked "NHL ready" forward, hence why they wanted us to pick him up.

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09-25-2013, 09:52 AM
  #228
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Smyth is only there because of injury. Basically, Perron wouldn't be here if Nichushkin was and in the short term, i would much rather have Perron or for that matter, i would much much rather have Perron+Nurse long term than just Nichushkin.
Also, Nurse is already a factor (albeit against preseason rosters). I think he'll be quite the factor in 2 years if he keeps on his current trajectory.
The 'injury' happened before the draft. Also, Perron is here to replace Paajarvi. By your logic a lot could have been different if we drafted Nichushkin. Heck Shattenkirk could have been suiting up for us right now.
Leaving the butterfly effect alone and focusing on just the 2 players involved I would still prefer Nichushkin over Nurse based on organizational needs and BPA.

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09-25-2013, 10:07 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
The 'injury' happened before the draft. Also, Perron is here to replace Paajarvi. By your logic a lot could have been different if we drafted Nichushkin. Heck Shattenkirk could have been suiting up for us right now.
Leaving the butterfly effect alone and focusing on just the 2 players involved I would still prefer Nichushkin over Nurse based on organizational needs and BPA.
The thing is we have a stacked top 6, we are set on that for a while. We needed strong bottom six and a number 1 defenseman. Looking at it Nurse is exactly what we need. Drafting a number 1 guy is free compared to what you need to trade for it.

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Old
09-25-2013, 10:09 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
The 'injury' happened before the draft. Also, Perron is here to replace Paajarvi. By your logic a lot could have been different if we drafted Nichushkin. Heck Shattenkirk could have been suiting up for us right now.
Leaving the butterfly effect alone and focusing on just the 2 players involved I would still prefer Nichushkin over Nurse based on organizational needs and BPA.
I don't think they ever looked at Paajarvi as a surefire #2LW so they went out and got one. If they had drafted Nichushkin, there wouldn't have been a need to trade for Perron.
I guess we'll agree to disagree. I preferred Nurse to Nichushkin on draft day and feel even stronger about it now after seeing Nurse in preseason and the way he carries himself off the ice. He really does have the potential to be a defensive anchor for this team eventually and that's more valuable than a power forward IMO especially on a team that is loaded with high end forwards and is lacking a true top pairing defenseman.

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09-25-2013, 10:13 AM
  #231
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Anybody who played with Lander in the preseason disappeared for that game.

Reminiscent of Eric Belanger. He needs a lot more games and most likely a couple more seasons at the AHL level.

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09-25-2013, 10:23 AM
  #232
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Regarding the 4th line C, who will be the Oilers 4th line wingers? I assume some combination of Eager, Brown, MacIntyre and maybe Hamilton. It doesn't seem like there is much skill there and I wouldn't expect the 4th line to see a whole lot of ice time. Choosing between Acton and Lander, I think it's better to have the tweener who's game won't change much on that line, rather than a prospect who is still developing.

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09-25-2013, 10:30 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Quokka View Post
Regarding the 4th line C, who will be the Oilers 4th line wingers? I assume some combination of Eager, Brown, MacIntyre and maybe Hamilton. It doesn't seem like there is much skill there and I wouldn't expect the 4th line to see a whole lot of ice time. Choosing between Acton and Lander, I think it's better to have the tweener who's game won't change much on that line, rather than a prospect who is still developing.
Yah.. its really not a big deal.
Bigger issues IMO are Smyth on top line and backup goaltending.

Even when Nuge comes back we wont be shifting Hall back to wing.. Arco will probably go down instead leaving Smyth on top line til Gagner returns.. (which might not be til sometimes in December)
Labarbara looked very shaky and hasnt played 20 games in a season since 2008. Dont know if Dubnyk can start 60 games and stay solid.

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Old
09-25-2013, 10:36 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
I'm not really pro or anti Gagner (maybe a little anti), but I don't see how Arco is anywhere near him.
Fundamentally you are right. Arco is no Gagner. But after watching Arco last season every game with Hall and Eberle and then following his success after they left... I think by the time Nuge and/or Gagner comes back a lot of people will have changed their tune.

Gagner plays his size. Fairly small.

Arco plays bigger than his size. Which is still small but really just as effective as Gagner.

Gagner and Arco have similar levels of playmaking. With Arco maybe even having a slight edge.

Probably similar face off success.

Goal scoring I am going to give Gagner a slight edge.

The only place Gagner is a slam dunk better than Arco is his dangles and deeks.

Gagner is better but I think people are slightly underestimating Arco and slightly overestimating Gagner.

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Old
09-25-2013, 10:38 AM
  #235
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Oilers will trade you Grebeshkov for him. Colorado always seems like they need D.

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Old
09-25-2013, 10:47 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Ex games often don't give a real indication of how the reg season will go for teams but the Oilers as a team just look so much more in control of games so far this year. Not domination or anything but good performances from all lines and d pairings. They look well organized and less panicky.
Yes I agree. When our goalies have looked shaky with rebound control or wonky shots almost squeaking through, I'm seeing much better composure from the D to move the puck out. And Hall had good spacing on one occasion in the 3rd to move the puck out.

I think the swarm defence will be a work in progress for the first 10-15 games as we get into the regular season, but already we're not seeing the opposing player wide open in the slot with nobody within 10 feet.

Actually, come to think of it, the Rangers D on the Nurse to Eberle goal looked like the Oilers D of last year.

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09-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #237
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Fundamentally you are right. Arco is no Gagner. But after watching Arco last season every game with Hall and Eberle and then following his success after they left... I think by the time Nuge and/or Gagner comes back a lot of people will have changed their tune.

Gagner plays his size. Fairly small.

Arco plays bigger than his size. Which is still small but really just as effective as Gagner.

Gagner and Arco have similar levels of playmaking. With Arco maybe even having a slight edge.

Probably similar face off success.

Goal scoring I am going to give Gagner a slight edge.

The only place Gagner is a slam dunk better than Arco is his dangles and deeks.

Gagner is better but I think people are slightly underestimating Arco and slightly overestimating Gagner.
Yikes... I hate Gagner but you are selling him way too short. Arco is no where near the level of player when it comes to 'creating' offense.

Reminds me of the Eberle vs Omark comparisons we used to get.. There might be some skills Arco might be better in ala Omark but there is no way he would get you the same offense when its all said and done.

Arco can hang in there if he keeps things simple making full use of linemates. That is all we should expect of him and not 38pts in 48GP ala Gagner of last year.

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Old
09-25-2013, 11:21 AM
  #238
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Got to the game late not much to be impressed other then Perron's sick hands.

I also noticed they still have the popcorn machine up on the catwalk. I wonder if Eakin's knows about this.

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09-25-2013, 11:24 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Fundamentally you are right. Arco is no Gagner. But after watching Arco last season every game with Hall and Eberle and then following his success after they left... I think by the time Nuge and/or Gagner comes back a lot of people will have changed their tune.

Gagner plays his size. Fairly small.

Arco plays bigger than his size. Which is still small but really just as effective as Gagner.

Gagner and Arco have similar levels of playmaking. With Arco maybe even having a slight edge.

Probably similar face off success.

Goal scoring I am going to give Gagner a slight edge.

The only place Gagner is a slam dunk better than Arco is his dangles and deeks.

Gagner is better but I think people are slightly underestimating Arco and slightly overestimating Gagner.
Seriously? There is no contest between Gagner and Arcobello. Gagner is the far superior player

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09-25-2013, 01:41 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Yeh ..who needs Nichushkin when you have Smyth as the top line LW.
I think with Fedun\Marincin\Hunt\Klefbom\Gernat etc in the organization picking this highly skilled winger that has the body of Joensuu would have been better than Nurse.
Nurse looked great but wont be a factor for another 2 yrs.
What kind of red herring is this? With a healthy lineup, Hall is on our top line LWer--and Nichushkin hasn't proven ****-all. You people who drool all over these 18 year olds make me sick. Let's see them actually put up a good season first, before penciling them in as top-liners. Completely ridiculous post. Barely worth my time.


Last edited by KarmaPolice: 09-26-2013 at 01:42 AM.
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09-25-2013, 01:48 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Fundamentally you are right. Arco is no Gagner. But after watching Arco last season every game with Hall and Eberle and then following his success after they left... I think by the time Nuge and/or Gagner comes back a lot of people will have changed their tune.

Gagner plays his size. Fairly small.

Arco plays bigger than his size. Which is still small but really just as effective as Gagner.

Gagner and Arco have similar levels of playmaking. With Arco maybe even having a slight edge.

Probably similar face off success.

Goal scoring I am going to give Gagner a slight edge.

The only place Gagner is a slam dunk better than Arco is his dangles and deeks.

Gagner is better but I think people are slightly underestimating Arco and slightly overestimating Gagner.
Is this a serious post?

Arco is a bubble NHL player at best.

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Old
09-25-2013, 02:15 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Bushwick Bill View Post
Anybody who played with Lander in the preseason disappeared for that game.

Reminiscent of Eric Belanger. He needs a lot more games and most likely a couple more seasons at the AHL level.
2 nights in a row, I noticed the same thing.

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Old
09-26-2013, 02:35 AM
  #243
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On that note Eric B has announced his retirement. 6 games, 0 points in the KHL. Says he is homesick. Too bad he didn't play that card before he came to us.

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09-26-2013, 04:28 AM
  #244
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Perron is fantastic, macT bent over St.Louis on that trade.

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Old
09-26-2013, 09:00 AM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
What kind of red herring is this? With a healthy lineup, Hall is on our top line LWer--and Nichushkin hasn't proven ****-all. You people who drool all over these 18 year olds make me sick. Let's see them actually put up a good season first, before penciling them in as top-liners. Completely ridiculous post. Barely worth my time.
You have watched Nich right? I take Nurse+Perron over Nich+Paajarvi+2nd. But you have to be on crack to think Smyth is a better option on the top line than Nichushkin.

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09-26-2013, 10:35 AM
  #246
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
What kind of red herring is this? With a healthy lineup, Hall is on our top line LWer--and Nichushkin hasn't proven ****-all. You people who drool all over these 18 year olds make me sick. Let's see them actually put up a good season first, before penciling them in as top-liners. Completely ridiculous post. Barely worth my time.
yet you still decided to respond to it and later went back to edit it
Nichushkin and Yak on the 3rd line would have been awesome.. I hate the plugs Yak has been given as linemates so far this preseason.

A 6'4, over 200lbs winger with loads of skill is just what we needed to round out our top 6. We have no one coming down the pipe with this skillset. We have plenty decent D prospects who will be NHL ready shortly.

I dont mind the Nurse pick especially after what he showed in preseason but IMO Nichushkin would have been a better selection.

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09-26-2013, 10:38 AM
  #247
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by BOLD MacT Trade View Post
Perron is fantastic, macT bent over St.Louis on that trade.
They needed to shed salary so one of Perron, Stewart or Shattenkirk would have been gone in any case.
They made the right choice and we won the trade
win win situation.. hopefully Paajarvi comes through for them.

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Old
09-26-2013, 10:56 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Gagner and Arco have similar levels of playmaking. With Arco maybe even having a slight edge.

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