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Stastny for Phaneuf

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Old
09-26-2013, 10:47 PM
  #126
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Magic View Post
Only way Phaneuf is going to Colorado is if Mackinnon or Duchene become a Leaf.


And Leafs fans act like we're the unreasonable ones.

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09-26-2013, 11:02 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post


And Leafs fans act like we're the unreasonable ones.
Well, there would probably be a + attached, ya know? Better than trading a #1D in Phaneuf for a #3C in Statsny.

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09-26-2013, 11:38 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Black Magic View Post
Well, there would probably be a + attached, ya know? Better than trading a #1D in Phaneuf for a #3C in Statsny.
A soon to be UFA does not really come close in value to a recent first overall pick...look at some of the previous returns guys on the last year of their contract got. Nor does a signed Phaneuf get you MacKinnon or Duchene.


Two soon to be UFAs in Stastny/Phaneuf I'd say are certainly closer in value than Phaneuf/MacKinnon/Duchene. Oh, and since when are #3 centers good for at least 50 points a year, solid defensively, and have the ability to to put up 70 points? Might want to lower your expectations for a 3rd line center there a bit...

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09-26-2013, 11:39 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Black Magic View Post
Well, there would probably be a + attached, ya know? Better than trading a #1D in Phaneuf for a #3C in Statsny.
Stastny's only a 3C in the AHL

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Old
09-26-2013, 11:42 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by EscapeGoat View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, top 15 now equals Bobby Orr!
Acting like it's insulting to include Stastny and Phaneuf in the same sentence is asinine. You can take that however you want, but Phaneuf isn't some legend that isn't in Stastny's league. They ar realatively close in value at the deadline.

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Originally Posted by Black Magic View Post
Well, there would probably be a + attached, ya know? Better than trading a #1D in Phaneuf for a #3C in Statsny.
No it isn't. A pending UFA does not get close to getting you either of those. In fact, there isn't a package I would take from Toronto for either of those guys unless it included Kadri AND Kessel.

Edit: Forgot Kessel was on the final year of his deal. Wouldn't even do it for that.


Last edited by tucker3434: 09-26-2013 at 11:49 PM.
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Old
09-26-2013, 11:53 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
Acting like it's insulting to include Stastny and Phaneuf in the same sentence is asinine. You can take that however you want, but Phaneuf isn't some legend that isn't in Stastny's league. They ar realatively close in value at the deadline.



No it isn't. A pending UFA does not get close to getting you either of those. In fact, there isn't a package I would take from Toronto for either of those guys unless it included Kadri AND Kessel.

Edit: Forgot Kessel was on the final year of his deal. Wouldn't even do it for that.
like Gunnarsson(Statsny) and Hamonic(Dion)

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09-27-2013, 12:26 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
like Gunnarsson(Statsny) and Hamonic(Dion)
I'm sorry...what? You choose to bring up Gunnarsson and Hamonic, why? How is comparing Gunnarsson/Hamonic relevant to Stastny/Phaneuf?

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09-27-2013, 12:34 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
I'm sorry...what? You choose to bring up Gunnarsson and Hamonic, why? How is comparing Gunnarsson/Hamonic relevant to Stastny/Phaneuf?
oh sorry I have been on a mission about Gunnarsson being comparable to Hamanic and I try to thow it in where ever I can

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09-27-2013, 01:07 AM
  #134
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We're going to be retaining Phaneuf long-term. He's one of the reasons why we performed well last season. He's a easily a top 10-15 defenceman and that's with sub-standard partners. I think once we Carlyle is able to get the team to buy into the system and Gardiner displaces Gunnarsson, we'll see much a stronger Phaneuf.

It's pointless comparing Dion to other defenceman who don't play with a marginal mid-pairing guy like Gunnarsson. Give us a Roman Josi, a more refined defensive system, and we'll perform a lot better. We are still a project team, because this is Carlyle's first camp/ pre-season with the Leafs.

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09-27-2013, 01:10 AM
  #135
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I'm sorry...what? You choose to bring up Gunnarsson and Hamonic, why? How is comparing Gunnarsson/Hamonic relevant to Stastny/Phaneuf?
They're not comparable. Stastny is a solid line centre and probably a marginal top line centre. Phaneuf, on the other hand, is equivalent to a point per game centre. He's been producing offensive at top 10-15 range for most of his 8 seasons, and he's relied upon heavily on the defensive side of the game.

Game 5, 6 and most of 7 was Leafs performing optimally. Inexperience is what resulted in the collapse. Prior to that, the Leafs were essentially controlling the game, and 5 and 6 were low scoring as well.

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09-27-2013, 03:34 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
They're not comparable. Stastny is a solid line centre and probably a marginal top line centre. Phaneuf, on the other hand, is equivalent to a point per game centre. He's been producing offensive at top 10-15 range for most of his 8 seasons, and he's relied upon heavily on the defensive side of the game.

Game 5, 6 and most of 7 was Leafs performing optimally. Inexperience is what resulted in the collapse. Prior to that, the Leafs were essentially controlling the game, and 5 and 6 were low scoring as well.
I don't believe you'd have very many takers if the asking price is a ppg player.

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09-27-2013, 09:59 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
We're going to be retaining Phaneuf long-term. He's one of the reasons why we performed well last season. He's a easily a top 10-15 defenceman and that's with sub-standard partners. I think once we Carlyle is able to get the team to buy into the system and Gardiner displaces Gunnarsson, we'll see much a stronger Phaneuf.

It's pointless comparing Dion to other defenceman who don't play with a marginal mid-pairing guy like Gunnarsson. Give us a Roman Josi, a more refined defensive system, and we'll perform a lot better. We are still a project team, because this is Carlyle's first camp/ pre-season with the Leafs.
Just gonna point out that this is near the same as the excuse we have for Stastny and the linemate argument.

Neither team does this deal.

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Old
09-27-2013, 10:04 AM
  #138
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The deal that makes more sense to me would be in February:

To Colorado:
Dion
Kulemin

To Toronto:
ROR
1st 2014

Edit: Only if the Avs were in contention for the playoffs of course. Dion and Kulie would be rentals.

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Old
09-27-2013, 10:12 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Black Magic View Post
Well, there would probably be a + attached, ya know? Better than trading a #1D in Phaneuf for a #3C in Statsny.
There's not one plus in Toronto that would be worth moving Duchene or MacKinnon to Toronto for Phaneuf as a UFA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
The deal that makes more sense to me would be in February:

To Colorado:
Dion
Kulemin

To Toronto:
ROR
1st 2014

Edit: Only if the Avs were in contention for the playoffs of course. Dion and Kulie would be rentals.
This is terrible. Even if we were contending for a playoffs spot, you don't gamble those kind of assets on rentals to get into the playoffs.

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09-27-2013, 10:15 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
There's not one plus in Toronto that would be worth moving Duchene or MacKinnon to Toronto for Phaneuf as a UFA.



This is terrible. Even if we were contending for a playoffs spot, you don't gamble those kind of assets on rentals to get into the playoffs.
They wouldn't be complete rentals. I'm sure both would re-sign with the Avs. You guys have the cap space. ROR is likely not in good terms with you and will not.

If the 2014 1st is too much, possibly a prospect like Siemens?

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09-27-2013, 10:25 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
There's not one plus in Toronto that would be worth moving Duchene or MacKinnon to Toronto for Phaneuf as a UFA.



This is terrible. Even if we were contending for a playoffs spot, you don't gamble those kind of assets on rentals to get into the playoffs.

I don't mean to stir the pot, but how is it more terrible than proposing trading our #1D for your #3 center? Do we not already have enough <1C centers? Are we not cap-struggling as-is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danglesnipe
Just gonna point out that this is near the same as the excuse we have for Stastny and the linemate argument.

Neither team does this deal.

I tend to strongly disagree. Despite his tendencies, Phaneuf is a top-pairing (and our #1) 40-50 pt all-round defenseman. I don't see any teams lining up to trade those players at all - nevermind for vastly overpaid 50pt centers. It's preposterous. Strip down all the crap, and you have a top pairing D vs a 2nd/3rd line center.

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09-27-2013, 10:27 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
They wouldn't be complete rentals. I'm sure both would re-sign with the Avs. You guys have the cap space. ROR is likely not in good terms with you and will not.

If the 2014 1st is too much, possibly a prospect like Siemens?
No, not a prospect like Siemens.

And you're speculating way too much, we have a completely new management and coaching staff that ROR couldn't possibly not be on good terms with already.

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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
I don't mean to stir the pot, but how is it more terrible than proposing trading our #1D for your #3 center? Do we not already have enough <1C centers? Are we not cap-struggling as-is?
Our #3 center is MacKinnon. Nowhere in this thread have I said Leafs should do Staz for Phaneuf, I'd rather let Staz rebound under Roy personally than move him for Phaneuf anyways.

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09-27-2013, 10:33 AM
  #143
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yeah, you're not getting a top #1 defenseman for your 3rd line C, thanks.

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Old
09-27-2013, 10:35 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post

Our #3 center is MacKinnon. Nowhere in this thread have I said Leafs should do Staz for Phaneuf, I'd rather let Staz rebound under Roy personally than move him for Phaneuf anyways.
Fair enough - then it wasn't directed at you but perhaps the individual who threw the proposal up. Objectively it's competitive-suicide to consider trading Dion for anything short of a legit top-line center right now, and even then I'd have to wonder if we wouldn't be worse off not being able to fill that top-pairing hole.

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09-27-2013, 11:03 AM
  #145
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Why do people keep referring to Stastny as a 3rd line center? He's not.

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09-27-2013, 12:54 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
They wouldn't be complete rentals. I'm sure both would re-sign with the Avs. You guys have the cap space. ROR is likely not in good terms with you and will not.

If the 2014 1st is too much, possibly a prospect like Siemens?
Not trying to be mean, but I recommend watching some Avs games this season. I mean our games aren't that late and it's better than jumping on the assumption train for your viewpoint.

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Why do people keep referring to Stastny as a 3rd line center? He's not.
Because majority of Toronto fans,

- Do not watch the Avs and think we have a 1,2,3, and 4 lines respectably.
- In reality Avs have a 1st line, two 2nd lines, and a 4th.

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09-27-2013, 01:24 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Chau Vo View Post
Why do people keep referring to Stastny as a 3rd line center? He's not.
-Because he's not playing on the first line with a player like Kessel and being a point parasite.
-Because the Avs have 3 very good centers and a 4th on the way.
-Because it makes Stastny less valuable and is the chic thing to do.

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Old
09-27-2013, 01:31 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
They wouldn't be complete rentals. I'm sure both would re-sign with the Avs. You guys have the cap space. ROR is likely not in good terms with you and will not.

If the 2014 1st is too much, possibly a prospect like Siemens?
Wouldn't do it for O'Reilly alone.

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09-27-2013, 02:01 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
A soon to be UFA does not really come close in value to a recent first overall pick...look at some of the previous returns guys on the last year of their contract got. Nor does a signed Phaneuf get you MacKinnon or Duchene.


Two soon to be UFAs in Stastny/Phaneuf I'd say are certainly closer in value than Phaneuf/MacKinnon/Duchene. Oh, and since when are #3 centers good for at least 50 points a year, solid defensively, and have the ability to to put up 70 points? Might want to lower your expectations for a 3rd line center there a bit...
LOL, advanced stats paint a very different picture of Stastny. He's one of the worst defensive centers in the league and hasn't put up 70 points in 4 years, he hasn't even hit 60 points in 4 years. He's a one-dimensional 2nd line center. That's a fair statement. Third line centers are usually defensively sound and physical, Stastny is neither.

If I was a Leaf fan, I wouldn't take him for free. Yet alone consider trading their top defenseman for him.

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09-27-2013, 02:05 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
The deal that makes more sense to me would be in February:

To Colorado:
Dion
Kulemin

To Toronto:
ROR
1st 2014

Edit: Only if the Avs were in contention for the playoffs of course. Dion and Kulie would be rentals.
This is more realistic. ROR has actual good value. Stastny has negative value. He's like JM Liles for the Leafs. If he had any value the Avs would have traded him a long time ago, since he's the 4th best centerman on that team now.

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