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top 10 *NHL* defensemen ever

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Old
07-12-2005, 03:18 PM
  #26
Snap Wilson
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Who here is qualified enough to rank Fetisov? Or Shore for that matter? It's an insult if someone who hasn't seen more than fifteen games of Fetisov in his prime decides not to list him? Who decrees whether he's fourth best our fourteenth or twenty-fourth? Oy!

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Old
07-12-2005, 03:35 PM
  #27
arrbez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boucicaut
Yes, this is my beef with lists like this. Don't pretend to be universal when you're clearly not. Put the three friggin letters there: NHL
sorry guys, didn't even cross my mind. my original intent was NHL

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Old
07-12-2005, 04:09 PM
  #28
Psycho Papa Joe
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10 best I've Seen in no particular order:

Robinson
Potvin
Chelios
Bourque
Park
Pronger
Lidstrom
Macinnis
Savard
Stevens

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Old
07-12-2005, 05:35 PM
  #29
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Top 10 I`ve seen in my lifetime:

1) Bobby Orr- If you`re too young to have ever seen him, let me assure you that the legends you`ve heard are all true

2) Ray Bourque- His consistency over the course of his 20+ year career was phenomenal; only Gordie Howe was as good for as long

3) Paul Coffey- Smoothest skater ever, what he brought offensively far outweighed any defensive liabilities he may have had, which weren`t as bad as many believe

4) Denis Potvin- Very often overlooked in favour of Bossy, Trottier and Smith when the Isles dynasty is discussed, but might have been the true MVP. The Isles were sputtering badly in `80 when he was injured, but everything clicked when he returned- not a coincidence.

5) Niklas Lidstrom- Textbook example for all aspiring d-men to follow, rarely makes an unwise decision; last season`s "off-year" would`ve been a career year for most guys

6) Chris Chelios- Hate him, boo him, just make sure to respect him; maybe the best American player ever at any position

7) Larry Robinson- An unstoppable force, strong in all three zones and a true leader

8) Brad Park- Hard to rank him this low on any list, but hard to rank him higher on this list

9) Scott Stevens- Maybe #1 on defence alone; will make a great coach after he retires

10) Al Macinnis- Everyone focuses so much on his slapshot that everything else he does gets overlooked, like Bourque he was remarkably consistent well into his late 30s

Top 10 All-time (based on research, stats and opinions I`ve gathered)

1) Bobby Orr
2) Eddie Shore
3) Doug Harvey
4) Ray Bourque
5) Red Kelly
6) Paul Coffey
7) Denis Potvin
8) Tim Horton
9) King Clancy
10) Niklas Lidstrom

* NHL only, hence no Cyclone Taylor or Fetisov


Last edited by reckoning: 07-12-2005 at 05:54 PM.
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Old
07-12-2005, 05:42 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
It does say top 10 ever, not top 10 NHL defencemen ever.

The Soviet Elite League was near the NHL's equal through the 70s and most of the 80s. That's reflected in the Soviet's near-victory in 72, their resounding win in 81 and their classic series with Canada in 87. Fetisov was a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer in 2001 (and well deserved, might I add). He was considered by many to be the "Russian Bourque" and thrived in every international competition he played in. He would have been a multi-time all-star if he would have played his prime in North America. A great combination of skill, defensive ability and physical play. Had a dirty side to him.
I competely disagree that the Soviet Elite League was anything near the NHL's equal at any time. The communist run league was simply a training ground for the Red Army. Any time an excellent player surfaced on another roster, he was quickly shipped to the Red Army. Unlike North American pro sports there was no choice about it.

So, the teams that played Canada in those classic series was the sum total of great players in the Russian league. The rest of the clubs in the league would have wallowed at the bottom of the NHL much like the Golden Seals, Scouts or Barons.

Dominating teams like that is hardly an accomplishment. The only real guage of their talents is best on best competitions vs. other countries. From the research I have done, the NHL still comes out ahead. Put Canada's best on one team permanently and we would have embarrassed the Russians.

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07-12-2005, 05:55 PM
  #31
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I think Lidstrom is a little overrated on these boards. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a sure-fire, future first-ballot Hall-of-Famer who should rank in the top 20-25 defencemen of all-time (regardless of league), but there aren't any other defencemen in the NHL right now in their prime who rate as all-time greats. When you look at those three straight Norris Trophies, the runners-up in 2001 were Bourque and Stevens, in 2002 second place was Chelios (who I believe had more first-place ballots), and in 2003 second place was MacInnis. His run of six-straight first team all-star seasons is Hall worthy in and of itself, but I think we'd all agree that the overall depth of defencemen isn't what it was 10-15 years ago. Stevens had one of the best all-round seasons I've ever seen from a defenceman in 1994, but he didn't win the Norris. (I think Stevens should have won that year, but Bourque was excellent that year, too).

I think very highly of Lidstrom, I think he's a wonderful blend of skill, savy and defensive awareness (the latter he never gets enough credit for), but I just can't rate him ahead of Stevens, and definitely not ahead of Larry Robinson or Chris Chelios.

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Old
07-12-2005, 06:01 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
I think Lidstrom is a little overrated on these boards. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a sure-fire, future first-ballot Hall-of-Famer who should rank in the top 20-25 defencemen of all-time (regardless of league), but there aren't any other defencemen in the NHL right now in their prime who rate as all-time greats. When you look at those three straight Norris Trophies, the runners-up in 2001 were Bourque and Stevens, in 2002 second place was Chelios (who I believe had more first-place ballots), and in 2003 second place was MacInnis. His run of six-straight first team all-star seasons is Hall worthy in and of itself, but I think we'd all agree that the overall depth of defencemen isn't what it was 10-15 years ago. Stevens had one of the best all-round seasons I've ever seen from a defenceman in 1994, but he didn't win the Norris. (I think Stevens should have won that year, but Bourque was excellent that year, too).

I think very highly of Lidstrom, I think he's a wonderful blend of skill, savy and defensive awareness (the latter he never gets enough credit for), but I just can't rate him ahead of Stevens, and definitely not ahead of Larry Robinson or Chris Chelios.
I hate to contest the point yet again but, I don't think hardly anybody would agree that the overall depth of defensemen is less than it was 10 - 15 years ago.

What exactly about Pronger, Niedermayer, Blake, MacInnis, Gonchar, Chelios, Stevens and Leetch is weak?

Please explain how the depth of quality d men was greater in 1990 or 1995.

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07-12-2005, 06:35 PM
  #33
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I didn't say it's "weak." I said it's not as strong as it was a few years ago. World of difference.

Chelios, Leetch, MacInnis and Stevens were in their prime in 1990 and 1995. The fact that they would even be mentioned among the elite now is not only a testament to how great they are (Chelios is in my top 10, Stevens and MacInnis are in the top 20 and Leetch would be just behind Lidstrom) but that this generation of blueliners isn't as strong as the last.

Out of all the defencemen drafted in the last 20 years, Lidstrom is the only one who has been seriously for an all-time top 10 list. (Outside of a gonzo nomination for AKi Berg. Even Leetch [1986] hasn't been mentioned on lists beyond "these are guys who I've seen"). From 1979 to 1983 alone, we had Coffey, Bourque, Stevens, MacInnis and Chelios. Robinson (1971) and Potvin (1973) have been in many top 10s. Langway (1977) received, I believe, an honourable mention or two. Even on your own list, you have six guys picked from 1971 to 1983. Since then, I see only Lidstrom. The fact is, the number of elite defencemen (and their overall calibre) was higher in the 1980s and early 1990s.

As I stated before, Lidstrom is a surefire future first ballot HHOFer who should rank in the top 20 to 25 defencemen of all time. But ahead of say, Stevens? No.

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Old
07-12-2005, 06:44 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
I didn't say it's "weak." I said it's not as strong as it was a few years ago. World of difference.

Chelios, Leetch, MacInnis and Stevens were in their prime in 1990 and 1995. The fact that they would even be mentioned among the elite now is not only a testament to how great they are (Chelios is in my top 10, Stevens and MacInnis are in the top 20 and Leetch would be just behind Lidstrom) but that this generation of blueliners isn't as strong as the last.

Out of all the defencemen drafted in the last 20 years, Lidstrom is the only one who has been seriously for an all-time top 10 list. (Outside of a gonzo nomination for AKi Berg. Even Leetch [1986] hasn't been mentioned on lists beyond "these are guys who I've seen"). From 1979 to 1983 alone, we had Coffey, Bourque, Stevens, MacInnis and Chelios. Robinson (1971) and Potvin (1973) have been in many top 10s. Langway (1977) received, I believe, an honourable mention or two. Even on your own list, you have six guys picked from 1971 to 1983. Since then, I see only Lidstrom. The fact is, the number of elite defencemen (and their overall calibre) was higher in the 1980s and early 1990s.

As I stated before, Lidstrom is a surefire future first ballot HHOFer who should rank in the top 20 to 25 defencemen of all time. But ahead of say, Stevens? No.
OK, I think I get the point you are making. I apologize, I misunderstood.

You do make a good point.

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Old
07-12-2005, 07:08 PM
  #35
Big Phil
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To me this is my list

Orr
Harvey
Bourque
Shore
Robinson
Potvin
Kelly
Lidstrom
Coffey
Park

You have to go with Orr no second doubts. Harvey was basically a perfect defenseman to be honest and Bourque was right there (19 post season all-stars is astounding). Then there's Shore winning the Hart three times. Robinson was nearly perfect in every way as well, could control the pace of a game. Potvin is right behind him and Kelly and Lidstrom are very alike with each other. Then you cant forget Coffey. Yeah he may have been average defensively but his speed and his offense were incomporable. Only him and Orr have ever gotten more than 101 points in a season for a d-man. Then there's Park who is oftern forgotten in the 70s.

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Old
07-13-2005, 02:21 AM
  #36
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Top 10 Defenseman 1st Post......

1. Orr
2. Potvin
3. Kelly
4. Harvey
5. Shore
6. Robinson
7. Park
8. Pilote
9. Coffey
10.Lidstrom

Glad I found this place, looking forward to talking some Hockey History with an educated fanbase. Native Detroiter who cant find a Red Wings fan who can remember anything that happened in franchise history before 1995.

Will post some more soon........

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Old
07-13-2005, 05:34 AM
  #37
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1. Bobby Orr
2. Denis Potvin
3. Doug Harvey
4. Eddie Shore
5. Larry Robinson
6. Ray Bourque
7. Red Kelly
9. Serge Savard
10. Paul Coffey
HM's to Park, Fetisov, Lidstrom, Clapper, Horton, Clancey, Lapointe, Pilote and Langway.

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Old
07-13-2005, 09:00 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scribe114
1. Orr
2. Potvin
3. Kelly
4. Harvey
5. Shore
6. Robinson
7. Park
8. Pilote
9. Coffey
10.Lidstrom

Glad I found this place, looking forward to talking some Hockey History with an educated fanbase. Native Detroiter who cant find a Red Wings fan who can remember anything that happened in franchise history before 1995.

Will post some more soon........
Welcome scribe.

I think you will find this to be the most educated hockey board on the internet. I have been to many, this one is a cut above. We do have the odd nutcase but, for the most part we have smart people and heated debates about hockey.

Welcome aboard. I think you will like it here.

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Old
07-13-2005, 06:02 PM
  #39
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I echo Ogopogo's comment in welcoming scribe114 to the site. Always good to talk about the game with knowledgable fans, and I'm sure that Scribe114 will find that the fans in this section (with a couple exceptions) are very knowledgeable.

Just one question, scribe114: where's Ray Bourque on your list. Is it an oversight, or are the five Norris Trophies and countless post-season all-star selections not good enough?

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Old
07-14-2005, 01:02 AM
  #40
scribe114
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Oh goodness! I did forget Borque......

G.B. Canada,

Borque would be a tie for 5th with fellow Bruin Eddie Shore. had the oppurtunity to see Borque his entire career and I was very impressed with his all-around game, a lot more than I was impressed with Coffey. He did disappoint me heading off to Colorado to "gravy train" a Cup win. He should have gone out in Bruin gear.

$ 0.02

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Old
07-14-2005, 09:50 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
sorry guys, didn't even cross my mind. my original intent was NHL
Thanks for correcting the title.

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Old
07-14-2005, 10:05 AM
  #42
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I'm glad to see Harvey and Robinson get lots of respect here, but not many people have mentioned Savard...The guy was easily one of the best of all time...

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