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Oscar Klefbom for Kevin Bieksa

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Old
09-28-2013, 02:13 AM
  #126
Cogburn
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Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
Oh I completely agree. I hate Gillis for it but it was absolutely the right move
Klefbom+7th? That might have been worth it, but that second...eh...you can hate him all you want, we weren't THAT hard up

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Old
09-28-2013, 02:19 AM
  #127
settinguptheplay
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Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
Said everything perfectly. The fact that I hate the air Bieksa breathes means he's probably worth it. Plus he has a stupid punchable face.

That said oilers wouldn't consider a trade like this for 2 years, and by then Klefbom is more valuable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
I answered your question. Several
times in fact. I don't KNOW Klefbom will be better. NO ONE DOES. He could (god forbid) shatter his femur tomorrow or decide he wants to pursue a career in classical violin. Most people in the Oiler org (and quite a few outside it) think that Klefbom will be a great NHL defenceman. Seeing him play hasn't led me to think otherwise. He has all the makings of a very complete NHL defenceman. Potential isn't a sure thing but I see no reason he isn't based on the games I've seen him in and the analysis I've read.

I do hate to repeat myself so maybe READ this time.
No. You have not answered my question. You have deflected and changed the subject on a couple of occasions though.

Read the bolded section above. It is your quote. You said that in 2 years Klefbom will be more valuable. I asked you to support your claim. Despite the fact that you think you may have answered it you really haven't. Infact since that post you have done nothing but support my argument that you simply cannot know such things.

The 2nd bolded statement is what I have been saying all along. Now you are trying to take ownership of it. I cannot fathom how you can contradict yourself and still somehow feel your statement is justified. I am stunned how this manages to fly over your head repeatedly.

So for the last time. Answer my original question and nothing else.

What evidence or fact supports YOUR claim that Klefbom will have more value than Kevin Bieksa in 2 years. Really bloody simple. Please stay on topic here.

One more time for clarity.... Going off the original post which I have quoted above. The highlighted section which reads "That said oilers wouldn't consider a trade like this for 2 years, and by then Klefbom is more valuable". You state that Klefbom WILL have more value. Defend that claim and only that claim. If not at least admit your wording was poor.

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Old
09-28-2013, 08:50 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
An aging, expensive Top 4 defenceman that, while making Edmonton better, we A) do not overly need
You so need a D man. In the worst way. I watch both teams.

There should be signs in the crowd that was "Got Defense ?" Like there was before you acquired Roloson.

Mac-T needs to pound the pavement and get a D man

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:02 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
No. You have not answered my question. You have deflected and changed the subject on a couple of occasions though.

Read the bolded section above. It is your quote. You said that in 2 years Klefbom will be more valuable. I asked you to support your claim. Despite the fact that you think you may have answered it you really haven't. Infact since that post you have done nothing but support my argument that you simply cannot know such things.

The 2nd bolded statement is what I have been saying all along. Now you are trying to take ownership of it. I cannot fathom how you can contradict yourself and still somehow feel your statement is justified. I am stunned how this manages to fly over your head repeatedly.

So for the last time. Answer my original question and nothing else.

What evidence or fact supports YOUR claim that Klefbom will have more value than Kevin Bieksa in 2 years. Really bloody simple. Please stay on topic here.

One more time for clarity.... Going off the original post which I have quoted above. The highlighted section which reads "That said oilers wouldn't consider a trade like this for 2 years, and by then Klefbom is more valuable". You state that Klefbom WILL have more value. Defend that claim and only that claim. If not at least admit your wording was poor.
For the love of...


Okay let me try to explain this AGAIN.

Kevin Bieksa will be 34 in 2 years and it's a pretty established fact that is on the downturn of an NHL player's career (X-men like Selanne and Lidstrom notwithstanding). Defencemen regress faster than forwards as well - look at how many 30+ dmen couldnt find work this offseason. Oscar Klefbom, a highly rated prospect, will have 2 more years of development under his belt, and will have gotten the experience in the north American game that he needs.

Bieksa - trending down
Klefbom - trending up.

With me so far?

He will be MORE VALUABLE because a 22 year old fledgling top 2 defenceman has MORE VALUE than a 34 year old defenceman in the twilight of his career.

Young good defenceman > Aging good defenceman.



As I stated in an earlier post, the oilers signed Ference to essentially fill the role Bieksa would fill on the Oil.

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:12 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
For the love of...


Okay let me try to explain this AGAIN.

Kevin Bieksa will be 34 in 2 years and it's a pretty established fact that is on the downturn of an NHL player's career (X-men like Selanne and Lidstrom notwithstanding). Defencemen regress faster than forwards as well - look at how many 30+ dmen couldnt find work this offseason. Oscar Klefbom, a highly rated prospect, will have 2 more years of development under his belt, and will have gotten the experience in the north American game that he needs.

Bieksa - trending down
Klefbom - trending up.

With me so far?

He will be MORE VALUABLE because a 22 year old fledgling top 2 defenceman has MORE VALUE than a 34 year old defenceman in the twilight of his career.

Young good defenceman > Aging good defenceman.



As I stated in an earlier post, the oilers signed Ference to essentially fill the role Bieksa would fill on the Oil.

I think Klefbom is a lot closer to a Ryan Parent than a top 2 dman and only in your own little reality can Ference be considered better or equal to Bieksa


All you are saying is that you think that your opinions and speculation are fact and think that your best case scanerio and our worst case scenario happens. HF at its best

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:17 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
I think Klefbom is a lot closer to a Ryan Parent than a top 2 dman and only in your own little reality can Ference be considered better or equal to Bieksa


All you are saying is that you think that your opinions and speculation are fact and think that your best case scanerio and our worst case scenario happens. HF at its best
You're entitled to your opinion. As am I.

I didn't SAY better than or equal to. I said fill the role. Reading comprehension FTW. Dubnyk fills the role of #1 goalie but he sure as hell isn't better than Quick.

Explain to me how you're doing any differently?

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:22 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
If we were rebuilding I'd likely do it.
we are rebuilding. I like this move.

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:24 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
You're entitled to your opinion. As am I.

I didn't SAY better than or equal to. I said fill the role. Reading comprehension FTW. Dubnyk fills the role of #1 goalie but he sure as hell isn't better than Quick.

Explain to me how you're doing any differently?
I'm not, and never said I was unlike you talking like your opinion is fact. Although kudos for admiring you were touting opinion as fact, it takes guts to admit it when you're wrong. If that was never your intention I suggest a thesaurus to avoid further confusion.

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:27 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
You so need a D man. In the worst way. I watch both teams.

There should be signs in the crowd that was "Got Defense ?" Like there was before you acquired Roloson.

Mac-T needs to pound the pavement and get a D man
he brought in four dmen this offseason. Their d-core changed quite a bit from last year. We'll see how good it does with a real system in place.

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:29 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
we are rebuilding. I like this move.
No we aren't....

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:55 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
The LA Kings made a hail Mary coaching change at the end of the season and got into the playoffs by ONE game. If that doesn't tell you its about luck and momentum then I dont know what will.

You talk like the Canucks are the Sharks. The Sharks have never won a conference final. Yet some Oilers team that couldn't win a divisional, beats them in 2006.
The Kings had 95Pts. 5 more then the 9th ranked team Calgary. Also 2 Pts less then divisional champions, teh Coyotes.

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Old
09-28-2013, 01:31 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
The Kings had 95Pts. 5 more then the 9th ranked team Calgary. Also 2 Pts less then divisional champions, teh Coyotes.
No offense to the op, but anybody dismissing the playoffs as just luck, and then trying to portray the Nucks
disastrous performance in the last two years as unimportant, is hard to take seriously.

Back on topic! Although I don't think edm would go near this, and do think VCR would and should, I also think there are some conclusions here that are too strong. Bieksa will probably not be in his prime much longer but there is no reason to believe he won't be a valuable guy for some time. Likewise, Klefbom has nice upside, but he could also busy. Let's keep it in perspective.

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Old
09-28-2013, 01:45 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
No offense to the op, but anybody dismissing the playoffs as just luck, and then trying to portray the Nucks
disastrous performance in the last two years as unimportant, is hard to take seriously.

Back on topic! Although I don't think edm would go near this, and do think VCR would and should, I also think there are some conclusions here that are too strong. Bieksa will probably not be in his prime much longer but there is no reason to believe he won't be a valuable guy for some time. Likewise, Klefbom has nice upside, but he could also busy. Let's keep it in perspective.
Nice to see people learn things through the course of these threads. Seems people out East overlook Bieksa quite easily.

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Old
09-28-2013, 02:03 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
Phoenix would turn that down easily.
Edm would turn it down easier

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Old
09-28-2013, 02:56 PM
  #140
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Also, for the guy who said Bieksa would be washed up by the time the Oilers are ready to contend - how many more crappy seasons do they need?

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Old
09-28-2013, 03:04 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
contending for a cup is not the same as making the playoffs, surely canucks fans are starting to see this

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Old
09-28-2013, 03:10 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by oilers92 View Post
contending for a cup is not the same as making the playoffs, surely canucks fans are starting to see this
Making the playoffs is by definition contending for the cup. You can not have one without the other.

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09-28-2013, 03:38 PM
  #143
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Making the playoffs is by definition contending for the cup. You can not have one without the other.
Mind=Blown!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:18 PM
  #144
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I don't think edmonton would give up on klefbom just yet for bieska who has maybe 2 more good years left. I agree the oilers can definetly use bieska right now though. If they were to make this deal happen I think canusk will probably have to throw in another big forward or a draft pick

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:23 PM
  #145
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I don't think the Canucks can risk having to give Alberts-Weber more ice time.

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:23 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Manitoba Oilers View Post
Edm would turn it down easier
No they wouldn't OEL has much, much more value than Yakupov.

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:27 PM
  #147
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Typical HF logic. Bieksa is 32 and everyone talks like he's 37-38. Defensemen don't just go from being top 4 to Andrew alberts/Rory Fitzpatrick over night. Bieksa will be good for another 4-5 years.

He's a huge part of the Canucks defense and if you look statistically the Canucks play worse without him in the lineup. Why would we trade him for someone that could potentially bust? Kiefblom has potential for days but nothing is a sure thing. Maybe if the canucks were ready to blow it up and rebuild we'd consider it but even then i'd rather keep Bieksa around as a positive veteran to set a good example for rookies.

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:44 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
You so need a D man. In the worst way. I watch both teams.

There should be signs in the crowd that was "Got Defense ?" Like there was before you acquired Roloson.

Mac-T needs to pound the pavement and get a D man
Hence why we went out and got dmen... Talk about an uneducated post. Getting Ference and Belov makes this an unnecessary deal (not saying either are better)

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:45 PM
  #149
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I can't believe Oiler fans aren't raining diarrhoea on this proposal. I know from previous poking around Klefblom that they were very protective of him as a future 1 or 2 guy, "better than Brodin."

What's up Oil fans????

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:47 PM
  #150
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they know Bieksa is exactly what they need

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