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Oscar Klefbom for Kevin Bieksa

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Old
09-28-2013, 05:53 PM
  #151
Mc5RingsAndABeer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
I can't believe Oiler fans aren't raining diarrhoea on this proposal. I know from previous poking around Klefblom that they were very protective of him as a future 1 or 2 guy, "better than Brodin."

What's up Oil fans????
Maybe because Bieksa is currently a #2 guy already

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Old
09-28-2013, 05:56 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
I can't believe Oiler fans aren't raining diarrhoea on this proposal. I know from previous poking around Klefblom that they were very protective of him as a future 1 or 2 guy, "better than Brodin."

What's up Oil fans????
Oiler fans have been saying it wouldn't happen. There's no way we'd move our best prospect not currently in the NHL for a D that we can't even fit on the roster.

We just avoid the thread as it's started turning into flaming and bickering...none of which is useful or productive.

Simply put the D acquisitions over the summer would make Bieksa a luxury we can't afford to trade for. Meanwhile the new D give Klefbom time to refine his game in NA and will get called up as needed.

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:21 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
I can't believe Oiler fans aren't raining diarrhoea on this proposal. I know from previous poking around Klefblom that they were very protective of him as a future 1 or 2 guy, "better than Brodin."

What's up Oil fans????
Bieksa is worth more than Klefbom. He's a #2 guy already and he's what? 31 or 32.

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:37 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Forget about the NTC. Would the fan bases agree to this ?

Oilers need a tough veteran on the back end in the worst way. Plus with Nurse in their org, they will have cap structure issues if they both pan out in the future.

The Canucks have enough veterans to speed up Klefs development, the same was Mattias Ohlund mentored Edler. The Canucks will also be rebuilding on the fly by replacing an older player with a younger one.
Why would either team do this ? The Canucks did good drafting this year and are still a contending team . My Oilers are not ready to contend yet so they are better off keeping their young players and hope soon they will take the next step .

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:49 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
That OEL has more value than Yakupov? Any non Oilers homer would agree with that, go start a poll if you don't believe me. Did you watch OEL play this year?
As an Oiler fan i agree . However we are not ready to contend yet and we still need more offence thru our line up . When we only had RNH , rookie year , Hall and Eberle our team could be shut down . We did not have the depth .
If Yakupov becomes a 50 goal scorer , it would be close , but a # 1 D men has more value then a 1st line winger , however i would not do the trade even if Yakupov becomes a 40 goal man . Look at our prospects we are loaded at D and nothing at Forward . Yakupov is better suit to our team .

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:58 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by settinguptheplay View Post
No. You have not answered my question. You have deflected and changed the subject on a couple of occasions though.

Read the bolded section above. It is your quote. You said that in 2 years Klefbom will be more valuable. I asked you to support your claim. Despite the fact that you think you may have answered it you really haven't. Infact since that post you have done nothing but support my argument that you simply cannot know such things.

The 2nd bolded statement is what I have been saying all along. Now you are trying to take ownership of it. I cannot fathom how you can contradict yourself and still somehow feel your statement is justified. I am stunned how this manages to fly over your head repeatedly.

So for the last time. Answer my original question and nothing else.

What evidence or fact supports YOUR claim that Klefbom will have more value than Kevin Bieksa in 2 years. Really bloody simple. Please stay on topic here.

One more time for clarity.... Going off the original post which I have quoted above. The highlighted section which reads "That said oilers wouldn't consider a trade like this for 2 years, and by then Klefbom is more valuable". You state that Klefbom WILL have more value. Defend that claim and only that claim. If not at least admit your wording was poor.

He has none , Can you show he is wrong ? Bieksa career could be over in a month . ll it takes to end a career is one hard elbow to the head . So none of us no . All we can do is look at the way Klefbom was playing last year and look at the type of D Man Bieksa is and we all know most rugged
Defence men lose their game quicker then offensive D men

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Old
09-28-2013, 06:59 PM
  #157
rypper
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How about we let Yakupov hit 20 goals before we start heralding him as a 40-50 goal man?


(If I'm the oilers I don't trade him either though even for a defenseman of OEL's caliber.)

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Old
09-28-2013, 07:11 PM
  #158
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Bieksa is part of the core, pass

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Old
09-28-2013, 07:18 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rypper View Post
How about we let Yakupov hit 20 goals before we start heralding him as a 40-50 goal man?


(If I'm the oilers I don't trade him either though even for a defenseman of OEL's caliber.)
He would have had that last year over a season . Do you not think there a reason he broke Stamkos records . You care to make a bet he puts up more then 20 goals this year , make that bet and i will bet he does 40 the next year

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Old
09-28-2013, 07:18 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supert View Post
He has none , Can you show he is wrong ? Bieksa career could be over in a month . ll it takes to end a career is one hard elbow to the head . So none of us no . All we can do is look at the way Klefbom was playing last year and look at the type of D Man Bieksa is and we all know most rugged
Defence men lose their game quicker then offensive D men
No I cannot show he is wrong. But I am not making a claim that needs support. My point is that one cannot say who will have more value in 2 years. So I have nothing to prove. The other poster made a claim that Klefbom WILL be more valuable in 2 years. Hence he is the one with the burden of proof. Proof that he has failed to show/display.

Could Bieksa's career be over in a month? Sure. But so could Klefboms. Again I am not making claims of certainty with regards to the future.

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Old
09-28-2013, 07:24 PM
  #161
rypper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supert View Post
He would have had that last year over a season . Do you not think there a reason he broke Stamkos records . You care to make a bet he puts up more then 20 goals this year , make that bet and i will bet he does 40 the next year
I don't doubt he hits 20 this year, I don't think he gets near 40 or 50 though.

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Old
09-28-2013, 07:32 PM
  #162
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I think Yak passes 30 goals this year. You just need to see him shoot the puck to realize that he has 50 goal potential. It's already one of the best in the league.

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Old
09-28-2013, 08:37 PM
  #163
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Let's get back on topic, folks. This isn't about Yakupov and OEL.

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Old
09-28-2013, 09:27 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Nice to see people learn things through the course of these threads. Seems people out East overlook Bieksa quite easily.
I don't know where you got the impression that I had "learned" from you (which, I gather, you mean to say I had come to accept your personal perspective).

I have not changed my opinion of Bieksa one bit. I think he is a good second pairing dman for VCR who would be a horrible choice for the top pair in EDM.

The point of my post though was that a player being past peak does not render him useless.

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09-28-2013, 09:47 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Maybe because Bieksa is currently a #2 guy already
No he isn't.

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09-28-2013, 09:57 PM
  #166
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No he isn't.
Played on the top pairing with Hamhuis, and this year it looks like he might be top pair with Garrison. Plays PP and PK, 20+ mins per game...

I'm not sure what you're criteria is on what it takes to be a #2, but the guy is fully capable-as he has proved- to play on the top pairing, and in all situations. He's done a lot of it in Van, and he did it during their most successful seasons in team history.

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09-28-2013, 10:02 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
No he isn't.
Then what is he? He plays as a #2D for a pretty solid team.

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Old
09-29-2013, 12:54 AM
  #168
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Smid - Bieksa would make a pretty tough duo capable of playing top pairing minutes. I would think having that kind of toughness on the ice for 25+ minutes a game to protect the young guns would make sense. That said I can understand why Edmonton fans would be reluctant as the team has a young core. But saying that Klefbom has more value is certainly not a legit argument against the trade.

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Old
09-29-2013, 01:49 AM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supert View Post
He has none , Can you show he is wrong ? Bieksa career could be over in a month . ll it takes to end a career is one hard elbow to the head . So none of us no . All we can do is look at the way Klefbom was playing last year and look at the type of D Man Bieksa is and we all know most rugged
Defence men lose their game quicker then offensive D men
This guy gets it.

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09-29-2013, 02:02 AM
  #170
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This kind of is a dumb thread now. I think people here look only to the present and just quote stats, and don't pay attention to the future.

As a Oiler fan, I have no problem saying Bieska is the better player right now, but I also see the Canucks being far more likely to take this trade than the Oilers.

The thing is, you have to look at it in 2 years time, especially from the Oilers point of view. Bieska will be at the wrong end of prime, and a heavy cap hit. Klefblom will be in the final year of his ELC, right at the time the Oilers should be competing for the cup and the Oilers will still have his RFA rights. If he hits his projections and works out fine, he will have a slot on the team by then, and should in fact be our number 3/4 defense man by then. His pedigree and reports before he got injured has him at first line upside.

Assuming it all goes to plan, a value contract when he becomes a RFA locked for say 7 years, for a young defense man that will be hitting his prime in the middle of that contract and still is projected to have a lot of upside. Bieska by then will be hitting his downside, and may find himself in the third pairing due to some of the other prospects in the Oiler system coming up by then. It really just doesn't make sense for the Oilers to make this trade, but it does for the Canucks, because I don't believe the nucks have a prospect in their system rated as high as Klefbom, and they already have a very good vet defense even without Bieska.

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Old
09-29-2013, 02:08 AM
  #171
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Oilers and Canucks: Have they ever got together on a trade. (This might've been asked already.)

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Old
09-29-2013, 06:45 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
You are vastly underestimating Bieksa. Sure, he is prone to more gaffs than preferable, but this is a guy who in a bad year was on pace to score 14 goals and 14 assists. Additionally, he was injured throughout a decent portion of it. In a five year span, with that as his worst performance. He ought to be given credit.

Bieksa's issues are consistency and extremes. When he is bad, he's bad. In comparison, when he's good, he is a terrific top four defenseman and formed one of the best shutdown pairings in the west.
Which Dman isnt bad when hes bad? Edler our best dman looks absolutely brutal. **** even Hamhuis looked brutal last year.

He ought to be given credit because hes an excellent dman who plays pretty much every role given to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
I hate Bieksa and his fugly-ass face. I also hate Vancouver and wish the Sedins get deported while the team gets regulated to Mexico City.

That having been said, saying Bieksa is not a top-pairing dman is hogwash. There are not sixty NHL defenders better than him. I wouldn't want him playing the most minutes on my team in any situation, but I wouldn't want to trade him in his prime (or close to it) for the possibility of a 20-year old being better in the vague future.
I loled. But the bolded is whats important.

A few years ago I went through his stats on NHL.com and he was top 20 in quite a few.

Hes also a player who gets thrown into literally every situation and had his role changed year to year. Plus different partners.

Just looking at last year a generally bad year for him compounded by injury.

131 games played
78th in points
45th in +/-
28th in Goals
122nd in Assists
42nd in PPG
49th in GWG
46th in Shots
40th in Sh%
59th in TOI/GM
58th TOI/GM
77th PP TOI/GM
109th SH TOI/GM
31st in ESG
20th in G/G
74th in hits
121st in Blk shots
79th in Gv Away
18th in Tk Away


Last edited by Lonny Bohonos: 09-29-2013 at 07:05 AM.
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Old
09-29-2013, 08:01 AM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rypper View Post
I don't doubt he hits 20 this year, I don't think he gets near 40 or 50 though.
with in 2 years he does

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Old
09-29-2013, 10:59 AM
  #174
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no thanks from edmonton

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Old
09-29-2013, 11:58 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
Played on the top pairing with Hamhuis, and this year it looks like he might be top pair with Garrison. Plays PP and PK, 20+ mins per game...

I'm not sure what you're criteria is on what it takes to be a #2, but the guy is fully capable-as he has proved- to play on the top pairing, and in all situations. He's done a lot of it in Van, and he did it during their most successful seasons in team history.

Most Nuck fans would tell you Edler is their number one, not Hamhius. And, btw, few teams use their number one and two on the same pair.

I would say Bieksa is VCR's # 4 guy.

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