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Official Perron Watch Thread (Mod warning #341 copied to OP)

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Old
10-08-2013, 11:56 AM
  #101
Daley Tarasenkshow
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
That is another thing that impresses me about him. He embraced the city and the community right away, getting involved in charities, being visible at events, etc. Seems like a good person as well as a good player.
There's been a few examples, small, but his charisma can get the best of him.

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10-08-2013, 12:06 PM
  #102
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Perron's looked good so far with the Oilers, he's a terrific compliment to their young stars, and at times he's the best player on the ice. I'm glad to see he still has that agitating element to his game, man I miss the guy but he just wasn't fitting in to our team.

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10-08-2013, 12:54 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
It's interesting watching Perron play for EDM though. He was one of the worst defensive players in STL (mostly due to him turning the puck over a lot) but he's clearly one of the better forwards defensively on EDM...and it's not like his defensive abilities improved over the summer. It's just that he actually must've learned something from Hitch and the rest of his Oilers teammates have a ways to go to get their two-way games up to where it needs to be for them to be a contending team.
There were things he did really well defensively for the Blues. He wasn't Datsyuk out there, but he was always pretty good at stripping people of the puck in the neutral zone. Especially last year, though, I loved how he backchecked fast through the middle of the ice and disrupted plays in the neutral zone. There were frequently times when Backes and Oshie burned their energy in a shift getting up ice and battling in the corners and couldn't catch up to the play when it went the other direction. Meanwhile, Perron had a reserve of speed and instead of doing the passive winger thing of shadowing an open attacker closer to the boards, he'd basically skate up the gut and right into the guy with the puck and make life a lot easier for his defensemen.

There are flaws to his game that balance out that kind of thing, but he definitely isn't and wasn't a one-dimensional player.

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10-08-2013, 02:49 PM
  #104
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There were things he did really well defensively for the Blues. He wasn't Datsyuk out there, but he was always pretty good at stripping people of the puck in the neutral zone. Especially last year, though, I loved how he backchecked fast through the middle of the ice and disrupted plays in the neutral zone. There were frequently times when Backes and Oshie burned their energy in a shift getting up ice and battling in the corners and couldn't catch up to the play when it went the other direction. Meanwhile, Perron had a reserve of speed and instead of doing the passive winger thing of shadowing an open attacker closer to the boards, he'd basically skate up the gut and right into the guy with the puck and make life a lot easier for his defensemen.

There are flaws to his game that balance out that kind of thing, but he definitely isn't and wasn't a one-dimensional player.
I don't think anyone here, especially me, is referring to Perron as a one-dimensional player. All I'm saying is that while he is certainly talented, he also turned the puck over a lot, took lots of needless penalties (many in the offensive zone) and didn't seem to fit the team or Hitch's system. I wish Perron well though. He's a kid with a lot of passion and his style should fit very will with the Oilers. He's a much better fit there than here.

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10-08-2013, 02:53 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
I don't think anyone here, especially me, is referring to Perron as a one-dimensional player. All I'm saying is that while he is certainly talented, he also turned the puck over a lot, took lots of needless penalties (many in the offensive zone) and didn't seem to fit the team or Hitch's system. I wish Perron well though. He's a kid with a lot of passion and his style should fit very will with the Oilers. He's a much better fit there than here.
I absolutely agree. As I said, there are other things that balance it out, particularly his play once he is back in his own end and a lack of focus that results in being too fancy or taking terrible penalties. I'm just going into detail about what kept him from being outright poor defensively, even when on the Blues, whether he was worse than several other guys or not.

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10-09-2013, 11:12 AM
  #106
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They were acquired because they fitted Hitchcocks system already
bingo these people saying he is just learning are trying to make themselves feel better about the perron trade.....lets be honest spare me the BS of MP never had top line minutes in EDM in his first 2 season he saw plenty of ice time on the 1st and 2nd line....however that goes untold because the last two years he went up and down from the minors and people use this as a crutch as why he hasnt proven himself yet....all i know is Perron had plenty more points than him in the same amount of GPs as him and we also gave up our most skilled player in Perron....i would of sent berglund, cole out before i sent perron out of town. All we heard when we made this trade was how well he fit the system and as the previous poster said what about lappy and roy? why arent they sitting arent they learning the system too? lol

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10-09-2013, 11:16 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DaddyPadre View Post
bingo these people saying he is just learning are trying to make themselves feel better about the perron trade.....lets be honest spare me the BS of MP never had top line minutes in EDM in his first 2 season he saw plenty of ice time on the 1st and 2nd line....however that goes untold because the last two years he went up and down from the minors and people use this as a crutch as why he hasnt proven himself yet....all i know is Perron had plenty more points than him in the same amount of GPs as him and we also gave up our most skilled player in Perron....i would of sent berglund, cole out before i sent perron out of town. All we heard when we made this trade was how well he fit the system and as the previous poster said what about lappy and roy? why arent they sitting arent they learning the system too? lol
Not to turn this into a pissing match, but Perron was clearly the odd man out. You can't compare Cole to Perron because he's a defenseman. We don't have nearly the log jam on defense as we do at forward. Perron was a left winger and we have a ton of guys that can play left wing. I'm fully convinced that Army pulled the trigger for two main reasons. 1) Open up some cap space so that when Petro signed we'd still have a little breathing room 2) More importantly, to open up more ice time for Jaden Schwartz. I whole-heartedly believe this organization thinks he will be a better overall player in the long term than Perron. Schwartz fits this team to a T. Hard working, defensively responsible, great vision, a compete level that is out of this world, and most importantly the attitude and work ethic to change his game the way the team needs him to play.Perron is immensely talented, no doubt. But he just wasn't a fit for this team.

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10-09-2013, 11:21 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DaddyPadre View Post
bingo these people saying he is just learning are trying to make themselves feel better about the perron trade.....lets be honest spare me the BS of MP never had top line minutes in EDM in his first 2 season he saw plenty of ice time on the 1st and 2nd line....however that goes untold because the last two years he went up and down from the minors and people use this as a crutch as why he hasnt proven himself yet....all i know is Perron had plenty more points than him in the same amount of GPs as him and we also gave up our most skilled player in Perron....i would of sent berglund, cole out before i sent perron out of town. All we heard when we made this trade was how well he fit the system and as the previous poster said what about lappy and roy? why arent they sitting arent they learning the system too? lol
To my knowledge, we traded for Pj for his performance in his last ~10 games according to an interview with Hitchcock, but when he was playing with us, the stuff that we traded for was replaced with pure offense, rather than what Hitch was expecting. Hitch wants to groom him back into what will work for the Blues (which apparently was happening right around the end of training camp) but for the meantime, he isn't quite ready and needs to wait for someone's performance to decline before he will get his chance.

Also, I misspoke with my previous post. Lappy was the type of play that already fit when we acquired him, whereas Derek Roy was acquired for other reasons (as mentioned above)

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10-09-2013, 11:25 AM
  #109
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Not to turn this into a pissing match, but Perron was clearly the odd man out. You can't compare Cole to Perron because he's a defenseman. We don't have nearly the log jam on defense as we do at forward. Perron was a left winger and we have a ton of guys that can play left wing. I'm fully convinced that Army pulled the trigger for two main reasons. 1) Open up some cap space so that when Petro signed we'd still have a little breathing room 2) More importantly, to open up more ice time for Jaden Schwartz. I whole-heartedly believe this organization thinks he will be a better overall player in the long term than Perron. Schwartz fits this team to a T. Hard working, defensively responsible, great vision, a compete level that is out of this world, and most importantly the attitude and work ethic to change his game the way the team needs him to play.Perron is immensely talented, no doubt. But he just wasn't a fit for this team.

i agree with that he doesnt fit THIS team however....does tarasenko's style really fit THIS team? and Cole is an enigma to me i dont get how this guy went before PK Subban, Jon Blum, Brendan Smith crap even guys in the 7th are better than him gunnarsson and braun (as of last year Muzzin same draft year also came out and looks better than cole) The guy looks like he has a hot potato on his stick everytime he gets the puck...Berglund looks extremely lazy about 85% of the time i watch him play i know i know he has a big body however spare me the look how many goals he has lol if you watch his goals on NHL.com from last year almost all of them were tap ins, tips or even a few goals off his body? However a goal is a goal but this guy doesnt use his body whatsoever or his GREAT shot you always hear about? I would have sent him out before DP....In the end this trade with MP even when it happened i said we should have gotten someone else out of it rather than him even it cost us to lower the asking price on a draft pick.

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10-09-2013, 11:30 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by DaddyPadre View Post
bingo these people saying he is just learning are trying to make themselves feel better about the perron trade.....lets be honest spare me the BS of MP never had top line minutes in EDM in his first 2 season he saw plenty of ice time on the 1st and 2nd line....however that goes untold because the last two years he went up and down from the minors and people use this as a crutch as why he hasnt proven himself yet....all i know is Perron had plenty more points than him in the same amount of GPs as him and we also gave up our most skilled player in Perron....i would of sent berglund, cole out before i sent perron out of town. All we heard when we made this trade was how well he fit the system and as the previous poster said what about lappy and roy? why arent they sitting arent they learning the system too? lol
If you choose to look at that trade in a vacuum, not much of an argument to make. But are the Blues a better team now and over the next 3 years after the trade? I would argue that the early indications are probably yes.

MPS wasn't needed to come in and be a top 6 guy now, or frankly, even a top 9 guy. He's much earlier on his developmental curve. The Blues traded the more developed plays (with higher salary) for salary cap space and a cost-controlled young player with lots of upside.

I don't get the direct MPS Perron comparisons that are happening right now. Of course Perron wins those, but its lazy analysis and ignores the key factors surrounding the trade.

Anyway, I'm excited to see Paajarvi get out there and play his first game, but I suspect it may be a couple weeks into the season before it happens. But Hitchcock hasn't forgotten about the guy. I fully expect MPS to be a key contributor to a deep playoff run this season before its all said and done.

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10-09-2013, 11:35 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by DaddyPadre View Post
i agree with that he doesnt fit THIS team however....does tarasenko's style really fit THIS team? and Cole is an enigma to me i dont get how this guy went before PK Subban, Jon Blum, Brendan Smith crap even guys in the 7th are better than him gunnarsson and braun (as of last year Muzzin same draft year also came out and looks better than cole) The guy looks like he has a hot potato on his stick everytime he gets the puck...Berglund looks extremely lazy about 85% of the time i watch him play i know i know he has a big body however spare me the look how many goals he has lol if you watch his goals on NHL.com from last year almost all of them were tap ins, tips or even a few goals off his body? However a goal is a goal but this guy doesnt use his body whatsoever or his GREAT shot you always hear about? I would have sent him out before DP....In the end this trade with MP even when it happened i said we should have gotten someone else out of it rather than him even it cost us to lower the asking price on a draft pick.
There's a pretty big difference between Perron and Tarasenko. Perron had 6 years to learn how to play this style on this team. He never really took the jump forward that was expected of him. Tarasenko is in his second season. I'm pretty sure being patient with him was the plan all along. He already looks much more responsible defensively than he was last year. If he's average defensively and turns into a 30 goal scorer I don't think you'll be hearing anybody complain. As for Cole, you do realize the draft is a crap shoot right? And the Blues haven't exactly done him any favors in his development. He should have been playing everyday in Peoria instead of being in the press box in St. Louis. Regardless, he's our seventh defenseman, making like 800 grand. He's really not a big reason to complain at this point. And for your own sake, don't use Jon Blum as a counter argument to Cole. He is terrible. He was so terrible that Nashville didn't even qualify him. Brendan Smith hasn't even show to be capable of being an NHL defenseman for an entire year yet. You do realize Berglund is a center right? This team had literally 2 competent centers capable of playing in the top six before we signed Roy. Who exactly would you have had play his role? He is a serviceable second line center and a very good third liner. Why are you making a big deal about how he scores his goals? Who cares if they are tap ins? The important thing is that they go in. They all count the same. Berglund uses his shot quite a bit. If anything he relies on it too much. He's a shoot first center. I actually expect to see him score 25 goals this year. He's not the main issue. And now that he's not being relied upon as much offensively and he's got two young, offensively talented wingers with him, I think you'll see him have a good year. And you don't lower your asking price just to not take a particular player. That's just silly. In any event, this team is a better overall team than we were last year. That's all I care about.

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10-09-2013, 11:36 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
2) More importantly, to open up more ice time for Jaden Schwartz. I whole-heartedly believe this organization thinks he will be a better overall player in the long term than Perron. Schwartz fits this team to a T. Hard working, defensively responsible, great vision, a compete level that is out of this world, and most importantly the attitude and work ethic to change his game the way the team needs him to play.
Honestly, I would support this point by arguing that Schwartz is already a more complete player than Perron, while being 4 years younger. Also, regardless of how MSP plays this year, he is only 22 and shedding Perron allowed us to bring in Morrow - who could have a similarly productive season as Perron in Edmonton & will bring us the leadership we need in the POs.

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10-09-2013, 11:42 AM
  #113
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Honestly, I would support this point by arguing that Schwartz is already a more complete player than Perron, while being 4 years younger. Also, regardless of how MSP plays this year, he is only 22 and shedding Perron allowed us to bring in Morrow - who could have a similarly productive season as Perron in Edmonton & will bring us the leadership we need in the POs.
The nice thing about it is that Jaden bulldogged his way into this position. He made it impossible for Hitch not to play him more. Clearly the little guy is incredibly driven, and that bodes well for his future on this team. I'm certainly excited to see what he can do this year. A lot of people may disagree with me, but I actually picked him to put up more points than Tarasenko this year.

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10-09-2013, 11:45 AM
  #114
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i agree with that he doesnt fit THIS team however....does tarasenko's style really fit THIS team? and Cole is an enigma to me i dont get how this guy went before PK Subban, Jon Blum, Brendan Smith crap even guys in the 7th are better than him gunnarsson and braun (as of last year Muzzin same draft year also came out and looks better than cole) The guy looks like he has a hot potato on his stick everytime he gets the puck...Berglund looks extremely lazy about 85% of the time i watch him play i know i know he has a big body however spare me the look how many goals he has lol if you watch his goals on NHL.com from last year almost all of them were tap ins, tips or even a few goals off his body? However a goal is a goal but this guy doesnt use his body whatsoever or his GREAT shot you always hear about? I would have sent him out before DP....In the end this trade with MP even when it happened i said we should have gotten someone else out of it rather than him even it cost us to lower the asking price on a draft pick.
We needed to drop salary and nobody else could take it on. Cole doesn't come into this discussion because he would have needed to be replaced and we'd have been paying the exact same money (probably more) to get his replacement.

As for Berglund... he was significantly more valuable to the Blues than David Perron. He might not be as flashy and he certainly isn't the playmaker that we all hoped he would become, but he is the same age as Perron and plays a more complete game and in the more important position. His career stat line isn't exactly a million miles away from that of Perron either.

We tried to move Jaro, when that didn't work then Perron was the right player to trade. Given our significant depth at wing, and the abundance of wingers that routinely become available, then it was only going to be a winger moved.

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10-09-2013, 10:16 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
Perron is the type of player that didn't really fit the style of the Blues or Hitch (and Miklatz has hinted at the Blues now being a better team now that folks who didn't agree with Hitch's style are now gone from the locker room...he pretty much had to be referring to Perron and/or McDonald) whereas his style is perfect for the Oilers. The Blues gained cap space, a good young player with potential, a 2nd rd pick and a room where everyone is on the same page. The Oilers gained a hard working, talented player that fits their style of play very well. To me, I see this trade being an easy win-win for both sides.

It's interesting watching Perron play for EDM though. He was one of the worst defensive players in STL (mostly due to him turning the puck over a lot) but he's clearly one of the better forwards defensively on EDM...and it's not like his defensive abilities improved over the summer. It's just that he actually must've learned something from Hitch and the rest of his Oilers teammates have a ways to go to get their two-way games up to where it needs to be for them to be a contending team.

I wish Perron well but I like the trade, especially since it created cap room to be able to sign Petro & Morrow and removed a player that wasn't fitting in our system. And Paajarvi and the 2nd rd picks are future assets we aren't even using yet so there's more benefit of this trade to come for the Blues.
Perron has been good defensively and has credited his time in STL for it.

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10-09-2013, 10:38 PM
  #116
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Perron has been good defensively and has credited his time in STL for it.
Perron was always very reliable defensively.

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10-09-2013, 11:04 PM
  #117
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Perron was always very reliable defensively.
I wouldn't say that at all, he definitely went through some growing pains which is understandable.

He gave effort defensively. He's not the best at it, but he played hard and definitely tries to break up passes and backcheck.

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10-12-2013, 05:29 AM
  #118
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Perron was always very reliable defensively.
Not so much with Edmonton 4 games in and Perron's a minus 2.

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10-12-2013, 11:03 AM
  #119
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Not so much with Edmonton 4 games in and Perron's a minus 2.
Plus/minus means absolutely nothing in such a small sample size. More chance than anything.

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10-12-2013, 11:46 AM
  #120
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Plus/minus means absolutely nothing in such a small sample size. More chance than anything.
That and +/- is largely a team stat. Perron is averaging 22:06 ice time a game, the only players who average more than 15 minutes with a better +/- is md who is even and Belov who is -1.

Hall, Hemsk, Eberle, Schultz, Yakupov, RNH, Petry and Ference are all somewhere between -3 & -6.

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10-13-2013, 01:23 AM
  #121
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That and +/- is largely a team stat. Perron is averaging 22:06 ice time a game, the only players who average more than 15 minutes with a better +/- is md who is even and Belov who is -1.

Hall, Hemsk, Eberle, Schultz, Yakupov, RNH, Petry and Ference are all somewhere between -3 & -6.
It just goes to show everyone the the Oilers have a problem on preventing the opposition from scoring and playing team defense and until that changes those minuses will only get larger, same old Oilers.

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10-13-2013, 01:43 AM
  #122
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thats exactly what we were talking about when this trade happened.
sure its not that hard for a guy as skilled as him to get 1-3 points in a game when they score 5-6 goals.

but they somehow manage to give up always more goals than they score.

he is good but not that guy who brings them to the next level, nor the guy we miss to take our next step.


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10-13-2013, 01:52 AM
  #123
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Not so much with Edmonton 4 games in and Perron's a minus 2.
That figure is a lot more related to his linemates and defensive shiftmates and the goalies than it is to him, alone. It's only a reflection of his team's team defence when he's on the ice at even strength.

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10-13-2013, 03:12 AM
  #124
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If you watch Edmonton, Perron works hard to win battles and other positive two-way stuff, but he regularly does something that most of Edmonton does and would never fly on the Blues: he gets fancy at the opposing blue line for no good reason and coughs it up.

Along the same lines, Andy McDonald recently had that tweet that the idea of turning over the puck at the blue line as a cardinal sin is boring, head coach verbatim and you should try to make a play. I'm not a professional hockey player, but isn't it ridiculously obvious that the blue line is rarely where a real play is made? What are you going to do, juke a defenseman in the neutral zone and blow past his partner, too? If you're that good and that fast, the defenseman has to back off on you so much that you can power it down the ice, circle-to-circle, not bother with a high skill pass or move at the blue line, and then use the holes that creates a la Crosby.

I just don't know where some high level NHLers got the idea that a good offensive play is a low-percentage play at the opposing blue line. If you're on the rush, you can make a team play that involves criss-crossing or you can utilize an odd-man to make a higher percentage play at the blue line, but other choices are selfish and lose games.

There were 70 goals scored in the NHL tonight and I watched several of them live and highlights of all of them. Three total goals were scored as a result of something you could reasonably call a "play" made crossing the opposing blue line. I'm not talking about a pass from an unpressured player to a clearly open man, but something that involved some kind of skilled risk. Steen and Backes's goals from Oshie are two of them and I think that both were pretty low risk - they had pretty unfettered access to the zone, but it's clear how either play could have resulted in a turn-over if execution hadn't been perfect. The other one is borderline and it was a goal scored by Tanguay after a little move that allowed Colorado to penetrate the Washington zone amidst three or four defenders.
By contrast, at least nine goals were scored against teams due to turn-overs at the opposing blue line. At least a few goals were also directly scored due to dump-ins. And not even including any powerplay goals, the majority of goals scored were not scored off the rush, but, rather, after getting the puck deep and sustaining pressure.

Seventy goals is about a third of what any given team scores in a whole season, so even ignoring past experience, I'm confident enough in that sample to say that it's almost always a bad hockey play to risk coughing it up at the opposing blue line. Do not "make a play" there. The Oilers will continue to fail as long as Perron and his teammates are allowed to do it.

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10-13-2013, 04:03 AM
  #125
BlueDream
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Perron took two dumbass penalties and the Oilers are pure garbage.

Happy with the trade still. Hopefully we see a glimpse of Magnus soon though. Morrow wasn't too good tonight.

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