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Old
10-26-2013, 08:34 PM
  #251
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Damage control, huh? You attacked me first thanks to the herd mentality, mate! You didn't bother to read what I wrote a priori, and instead accused me of "belaboring" and only "actually agreed" when I reiterated it to you.
Whether I agreed with you had nothing to do with asking you to stop with the endless negativity. You thinking that anyone looking for a positive = rose colored glasses is the exact example of that.

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10-26-2013, 08:36 PM
  #252
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I agree. Where I disagree with you is on him being in the NHL instead of experiencing, what I believe to be, better situation and more ice-time in the AHL.
I think people greatly overrate the benefits of an extra couple of minutes a night in the AHL.

By being in the NHL, he gets better coaching, better video learning, and better workouts. I think all of that more than cancels out the benefits he would get from an extra two or three shifts a night in the AHL.

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10-26-2013, 08:45 PM
  #253
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I think people greatly overrate the benefits of an extra couple of minutes a night in the AHL.

By being in the NHL, he gets better coaching, better video learning, and better workouts. I think all of that more than cancels out the benefits he would get from an extra two or three shifts a night in the AHL.
You may have a point there, but I am more concerned about him being part of overall team success. He may not find that here with this (still) hodge-podge of a squad.

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10-26-2013, 10:24 PM
  #254
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He's getting better ever game in the NHL. There's no room in the AHL anyway.

The only cure for Nichushkin is having slightly more competent linemates.

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10-26-2013, 10:59 PM
  #255
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He's getting better ever game in the NHL. There's no room in the AHL anyway.

The only cure for Nichushkin is having slightly more competent linemates.
Actually I think that the Horcoff / Cole / Nichushkin line is starting to get some real traction. They've been pretty impressive the last few games when Horcoff isn't taking dumb penalties.

I think the bigger issue is that Ruff keeps on starting Nichushkin in the defensive zone in the Steve Ott / Adam Burish / Vern Fiddler / Eric Nystrom line of deployment. Whereas those guys got hemmed in their own zone constantly and hammered on both the shot clock and the scoreboard, Nichushkin and his linemates have actually given as well as they've taken. The question is whether that's the best use of his talents (almost certainly not).

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10-26-2013, 11:32 PM
  #256
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I don't buy into zone starts meaning anything. I think zone starts work as an excuse for players who can't win puck battles.

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10-27-2013, 12:03 AM
  #257
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I don't buy into zone starts meaning anything. I think zone starts work as an excuse for players who can't win puck battles.
http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6338

just read this.

**basically there is a measurable positive effect on opposition shot attempts for the next 10 seconds whether you win or lose the defensive zone faceoff, and if the opposition does end up winning the draw that advantage can last for the entire shift. There's a reason why basically every team in the league has defensive zone faceoff specialists, and on the other hand tries to get their best players offensive zone draws as often as possible.

So basically I'm confused as to whether you don't buy into the fact that coaches have specialized roles for certain players on the team (they obviously do) or whether you think they choose to give players those specialized roles for no reason at all.


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10-27-2013, 12:33 AM
  #258
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Okay, I read it. It's not really all that convincing. His argument comes down to some pretty small differences in Corsi numbers for a few seconds after a zone start.

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10-27-2013, 12:53 AM
  #259
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Okay, I read it. It's not really all that convincing. His argument comes down to some pretty small differences in Corsi numbers for a few seconds after a zone start.
well yeah that's kind of how Corsi works. Small advantages build up into results over a long period of time. The best teams in the league might take 55% of all shot attempts at even strength, whereas the absolute worst take about 43-45%. Most of the teams will be in the 48-52% range. It seems like a minor difference but over a full 82 game season being at one end of that range or another can mean hundreds of additional shot attempts either way, and at a league average shooting percentage of 8 or 9% that can mean a lot of goals in the long run.

As that article points out the period of time after you lose a defensive zone draw is probably the most likely part of the game the opposition is going to score on you outside of the power-play. This is in large part due to the fact that your players need to scramble after the puck from a stand still while the attacking team is basically already set up to generate a shot on the net from the point or work it around a bit. Most people would agree that you need your most defensively responsible players out there for the penalty kill, well the same logic holds for defensive zone starts because they are the only other time of the game where the opposition has that built in shooting / scoring advantage.

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10-27-2013, 05:28 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
I think people greatly overrate the benefits of an extra couple of minutes a night in the AHL.

By being in the NHL, he gets better coaching, better video learning, and better workouts. I think all of that more than cancels out the benefits he would get from an extra two or three shifts a night in the AHL.
The difference being that while the AHL team tries to win games and have team success, individual player performance and progress can be given greater importance. It's the difference between Oleksiak being in Texas and playing a ton of minutes in every situation and playing bottom pairing minutes with little special teams contributions.

It's at least debatable which is better for the player.

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10-27-2013, 08:06 AM
  #261
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For right now I think they are doing it just right. Keep sprinkling him in with the first line every once in a while and then up that rate.

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10-27-2013, 11:13 AM
  #262
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I don't even think it's Nichushkin that said he would be in the NHL or KHL..It's his KHL team that said they wanted him back if he wasn't on the NHL roster.

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10-27-2013, 11:35 AM
  #263
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For right now I think they are doing it just right. Keep sprinkling him in with the first line every once in a while and then up that rate.
The problem is Ruff hasn't really done that outside of practice. 4 or 5 shifts with Peverley is not 1st line minutes.

Can someone make me a Nichushkin avatar with Valeri in prison jumpsuit orange, behind bars? That's what he and I need right now.

#FreeNichushkin

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10-27-2013, 12:15 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by aloonda View Post
For right now I think they are doing it just right. Keep sprinkling him in with the first line every once in a while and then up that rate.
I agree with this. Against the Jets was the first time he looked much better than his linemates IMO. If this is a sign that he is getting used to the NHL then he should earn more time in the top 6 pretty soon.

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11-03-2013, 11:09 PM
  #265
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Nice snipe today to get his first goal. I think the goalie probably would want that one back. Hopefully it'll give Nuke enough confidence in himself to go on a tear!

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11-03-2013, 11:36 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Shady12 View Post
I don't even think it's Nichushkin that said he would be in the NHL or KHL..It's his KHL team that said they wanted him back if he wasn't on the NHL roster.
MMM I think in the Russian press Nichushkin did mention staying opposed to playing in the AHL, at least for a few years (not completely ruling out AHL ever). It was more or less he was planning on remaining in Russia for a few more years... until the NHL came calling, it was too good to pass up. Not to mention DNM paid 10 mill or something ridiculous just for his rights, so there would definitely be a lot of tension if he went to the AHL. People forget that he was just cracking the KHL last season. He was actually struggling the PY in Russian juniors, or just not playing a lot. It was last year where he climbed through MHL (juniors) VHL(farm league) and KHL, by the end of the playoffs emerged as a top player. Needless to say he made sky high leaps in one year and still has a long way to go. The way I see it many people have too high expectations at his tender age. I wish he played 1 more year in KHL to gain confidence much like Malkin did before coming over.

Great play BTW on the play where he steamrolled Anderson, would have been a great goal if he finished.

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11-04-2013, 12:08 PM
  #267
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I am still waiting for a nice Nichushkin picture of him looking to the heavens after scoring his 1st, and a picture with him and his 1st career goal puck. The Stars usually post it after the game

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11-06-2013, 02:07 AM
  #268
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More minutes and with better quality players.
Great speed to back up the D on goal he was in on.

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11-06-2013, 12:07 PM
  #269
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I think it was obvious yesterday that he is not ready for top line minutes yet. He was completely invisible in the first period and had a couple chances on a rush or two late. Did show some puck possession (he's a big body) and defensive IQ but also turned it over alot. Some that lead to really good chances for the Bs.

I say keep him on the 3rd line for now.

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11-06-2013, 12:13 PM
  #270
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I think it was obvious yesterday that he is not ready for top line minutes yet. He was completely invisible in the first period and had a couple chances on a rush or two late. Did show some puck possession (he's a big body) and defensive IQ but also turned it over alot. Some that lead to really good chances for the Bs.

I say keep him on the 3rd line for now.
You just accurately described his replacement Eric Cole .... makes more sense to roll with the young guy and let him grow. Dallas doesn't have another, perfect option in the Top 6.

Peverley hopefully can get something going with Cole. They need scoring from that 3rd line, and Peverley probably is the best bet.

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11-06-2013, 12:27 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by brinkmanjs View Post
I think it was obvious yesterday that he is not ready for top line minutes yet. He was completely invisible in the first period and had a couple chances on a rush or two late. Did show some puck possession (he's a big body) and defensive IQ but also turned it over alot. Some that lead to really good chances for the Bs.

I say keep him on the 3rd line for now.
Hes has played 2 games as a top 6 player. The first one was the best game of his career so far and he scored his first goal. The 2nd game was just mediocre. I think he deserves a little more of a leash in the top 6 than 2 games.

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11-06-2013, 12:30 PM
  #272
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You just accurately described his replacement Eric Cole .... makes more sense to roll with the young guy and let him grow. Dallas doesn't have another, perfect option in the Top 6.

Peverley hopefully can get something going with Cole. They need scoring from that 3rd line, and Peverley probably is the best bet.
ha...you're right! Does describe Cole to a T almost. Not alot of options I guess at this point. Segs winning FO's would alow the lines Ruff tried last game which I thought might work well.

Anyway you slice it I think they gotta stick with it for a while and let the players develop some chemistry with each other.

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11-06-2013, 12:42 PM
  #273
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Considering the lack of consistency this team displays, I think we can allow one down game like yesterday if he is going to be maybe our best forward in the previous game. Playing with Benn and Seguin means another adjustment and barring a prolonged slump I think he deserves a top 6 spot as much as anybody who might be in contention to replace him on the top line.

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11-06-2013, 05:46 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by brinkmanjs View Post
I think it was obvious yesterday that he is not ready for top line minutes yet. He was completely invisible in the first period and had a couple chances on a rush or two late. Did show some puck possession (he's a big body) and defensive IQ but also turned it over alot. Some that lead to really good chances for the Bs.

I say keep him on the 3rd line for now.
Don't you love people who make judgements off one game. Context equals he's playing on the top line against one of the best defensive teams in the league against a line that was built to shut down the other teams top line. Plus it's one game. He had a few sloppy turnovers, but he arguably played a better overall game than Seguin, who didn't create much at all. No ones saying he's not ready for top line minutes. That whole line was well held for the most part by Boston, which happens to a lot of great players against that team.

He did get a phantom assist though. He did not touch the puck for the Benn goal.

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11-06-2013, 06:07 PM
  #275
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I actually think Nuke looks better up there than anywhere else. Certainly as good if not better than Cole. More importantly, I think the team is served better by having Pevs down the line-up as well (2nd or 3rd).

It just makes good sense for the team as a whole; we need the depth scoring and I don't think it will hurt Nuke's developement.

I would like Ruff to continue to throw some of his minutes to Pevs, Cole, or anyone else he thinks deserves a shift with the top line on any given night. But he doesn't look lost or out of place and lets us spread out some of the other skill sets a bit. Fiddler and Pevs look great together.

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