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Old
10-03-2013, 06:55 PM
  #401
gradeAducksfan
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Theoretically, Fowler could have been paired with Brett Lebda because of an idiotic coach. Say he pinches, gets some power play points, and ends up averaging 30 points a year for three years. But he's a -60 overall because of Lebda's incompetence at even strength.

Do you see the flaw in your argument?
You are saying that the only way Cam is going to do good if he is paired with another good Defensemen?

Fowler is not a-60 because of pinches.

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10-03-2013, 06:56 PM
  #402
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I miss those days watching Stevens!!!

Everyone may like players more than others, that's fine. You can make all the points about Cam's game and how he was this and that. He's once again a -60 for his career. There is a reason why that's a stat and for a Defensemen, to me that's a very telling sign of a player.
There's also a reason that it's widely considered the least useful stat that is kept, as well.

He got a - on the first goal, 100% not his fault.
He screwed up on the PK - no - for that
Someone really should have covered for him on the 3rd goal. It was pretty obvious what he was gonna do.
4th goal was on Koivu and Winnik not picking anyone up. Fowler didn't misplay that.

I don't think he played well last night, but his +/- had jack all to do with his play.

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10-03-2013, 06:59 PM
  #403
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There's also a reason that it's widely considered the least useful stat that is kept, as well.

He got a - on the first goal, 100% not his fault.
He screwed up on the PK - no - for that
Someone really should have covered for him on the 3rd goal. It was pretty obvious what he was gonna do.
4th goal was on Koivu and Winnik not picking anyone up. Fowler didn't misplay that.

I don't think he played well last night, but his +/- had jack all to do with his play.
And as homeristic as it sounds, that's been the case most of his career unfortunately. Not completely. But it has a lot to do with it. He's had some very mediocre linemates on the ice outside of his power play time.

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10-03-2013, 07:00 PM
  #404
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And as homeristic as it sounds, that's been the case most of his career unfortunately. Not completely. But it has a lot to do with it. He's had some very mediocre linemates on the ice outside of his power play time.
He's made his share of mistakes, but I actually think (if we're looking for individual blame) that his +/- has more to do with his trouble offensively than it does defensively.

Edit: For the record, I think his D partner absolutely factors into this, but if we're looking specifically at him, and his +/-, I think it has more to do with his offensive struggles than defensive ones.

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10-03-2013, 07:38 PM
  #405
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I'm not worried about Cam or Beach, its everyone else on the defense. They haven't had success historically together, but either way we know they should be in our top 4.

Sbisa is injuried and has been struggling for as long as I can remember. I know people want to be patient with him, but If we get a reasonable offer to upgrade our defense and he's included... I don't worry about moving him for 1 second. A 2nd pairing of Allen/Sbisa is a bad idea.

Allen is a stretch on the top 4 and is better suited to babysit a kid as a #5. Souray is injured so he has to be in the top 4 (even I hate how he likes to dump in neutral zone vs. making a pass to a teamate).

Lovejoy is a nice bottom pairing defenseman but will be exposed as a top 4. If you want mobility, I'd prefer we go with Lindhom or Vatanen, but he could also be the babysitter I guess (#5 D)

Fistric feels real redundant with Allen and Lovejoy already on the team. Short term, I think he should fight for playing time w/ lovejoy.

Vatanen and Lindholm look very green. I think one can play in the bottom 6 but not both (#6)

Even when Souray is healthy, I still think we need to upgrade our top 4 and beginning to think Murray made a big mistake trading Ryan without get a quality top 4 D back.

Instead he chose to invest those dollars in Penner, Lovejoy, and Silf.

I realize last night was probably a fluke, but feel like even when healthy we'll be lucky to get out of the 2nd round with this lineup.

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10-03-2013, 08:17 PM
  #406
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Zdeno Chara was -61 after his first 4 years. In only 231 games.

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10-03-2013, 08:40 PM
  #407
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Vatanen looks fine to me, he was pretty easily the best D on the team last night, he looked alot more sure of himself at the NHL level. positioning was good, made some things happen offensively and was one of the few that did not quit despite the score

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Old
10-03-2013, 09:50 PM
  #408
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I really think beauch is the perfect partner for cam, but I think they both are more comfortable on the left side. My issue with Allen is he doesn't play his size, we need a nasty dman in Allen's spot. Hopefully hampz can get a look sat. and take off for us.

I don't know what it would cost us and i know WPG would never do it but I would love to get big buff.

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10-03-2013, 10:12 PM
  #409
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I really think beauch is the perfect partner for cam, but I think they both are more comfortable on the left side. My issue with Allen is he doesn't play his size, we need a nasty dman in Allen's spot. Hopefully hampz can get a look sat. and take off for us.

I don't know what it would cost us and i know WPG would never do it but I would love to get big buff.

Beauchemin had the best year of his career on the right side. Not just points and stats wise, he was noticeably dominant last year. It's a matter of chemistry. I touched on this in the GDT, but Beauchemin has to play a much more reserved role with Fowler.

Last year with Souray, he actually activated a lot more. He skated the puck up, pinched while Souray stayed back (in most cases), and was altogether more involved offensively. Fowler jumps up much more often and it creates problems there. If they can just get some chemistry going, the potential is there. That just leaves the second pairing. Unfortunately, I think the two candidates for that job are Sbisa and Souray who are both injured. Believe it or not I'm fine with Lovejoy there, but Fistric and Lindholm are stopgaps until proven otherwise.

Fowler - Beauchemin

x - x (Fistric, Lindholm, Lovejoy, Sbisa, Souray)

Allen - Vatanen

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10-03-2013, 10:16 PM
  #410
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I'd like to see the Beauchemin-Fowler pairing back together when Franky pulls his game together. Fowler needs a good D partner like Beauchemin, and we've seen how Franky can play with a good puck mover.

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10-03-2013, 11:46 PM
  #411
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This rumour from LeBrun is interesting, I really feel like Holland is going to get traded at some point here.

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10-03-2013, 11:49 PM
  #412
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I just wish that LeBrun had left his speculation out. Now everyone thinks that we want their second-tier D prospects for Etem.

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10-03-2013, 11:59 PM
  #413
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This rumour from LeBrun is interesting, I really feel like Holland is going to get traded at some point here.
Unfortunately he hasn't proven much of anything, and Perreault doesn't look like he's going anywhere soon. Says a lot that he was put on the second-line having never suited up for the team in a game.

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10-04-2013, 12:04 AM
  #414
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It wouldn't surprise me that Bob would like to trade Holland for a D but straight up that won't get us what we need. And it would surprise me if he hasn't been working on something since camp opened. People don't realize how hard it is to make any kind of deal these days with a cap, NTCs, NMCs, and whatever else. They don't just happen because you want them to.

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10-04-2013, 12:27 AM
  #415
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It wouldn't surprise me that Bob would like to trade Holland for a D but straight up that won't get us what we need. And it would surprise me if he hasn't been working on something since camp opened. People don't realize how hard it is to make any kind of deal these days with a cap, NTCs, NMCs, and whatever else. They don't just happen because you want them to.
Especially for defensemen, well, the ones that you'd want.

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10-04-2013, 12:39 AM
  #416
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We will obviously never know, but I'll guarantee BM got offered D men for Ryan. Just not good enough ones. Like Mick Jagger said, you can't always get what you want.

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10-04-2013, 01:10 AM
  #417
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If we want to get any kind of quality defenseman one of Palmieri/Etem will have to go the other way. I don't want to trade either but obviously if a quality player is available you have to consider it.

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Old
10-04-2013, 01:15 AM
  #418
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I just wish that LeBrun had left his speculation out. Now everyone thinks that we want their second-tier D prospects for Etem.
Or we want to trade Gibson.

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10-04-2013, 01:20 AM
  #419
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If we want to get any kind of quality defenseman one of Palmieri/Etem will have to go the other way. I don't want to trade either but obviously if a quality player is available you have to consider it.
If we could do a deal around Despres and Etem I'd be pretty damn happy.

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10-04-2013, 02:21 AM
  #420
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If we could do a deal around Despres and Etem I'd be pretty damn happy.
Happy enough to volunteer to do CPR on Ducksgo?

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10-04-2013, 02:34 AM
  #421
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Happy enough to volunteer to do CPR on Ducksgo?
C'mon Eddie, we all know Ducksgo would move to Pittsburgh and claim to be from the 'Burgh

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10-04-2013, 02:58 AM
  #422
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Regressed from 1st in Pacific to last in one game. Dismantle the team, time to start over (or relocate).

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10-04-2013, 02:58 AM
  #423
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If we want to get any kind of quality defenseman one of Palmieri/Etem will have to go the other way. I don't want to trade either but obviously if a quality player is available you have to consider it.
Agreed, though I think a defenseman of quality should have at least two years experience to help us in any way, unless for some reason a young blue chipper can be had.

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10-04-2013, 03:01 AM
  #424
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Regressed from 1st in Pacific to last in one game. Dismantle the team, time to start over (or relocate).
Go the Anchorage Ice Truckers!

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10-04-2013, 03:05 AM
  #425
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Go the Anchorage Ice Truckers!
The Ice Truckers are located in Nome. It's clear you're just a bandwagon-Trucker fan.

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