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Old
10-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
If Lovejoy only looked better with Fowler I would agree. Now we can split hairs, but in general Ben has looked better than advertised in all situations since his arrival, not only with Cam.

If Fowler only ends up being a solid top 4 D with minimal offense he will still be a solid addition to the team. I've never denied that. My only argument is that compared to expectations, it's amazing how much of a pass he gets. Agreed that Sbisa has not progressed quite like Cam has, but then he hasn't regressed like Cam has either. Not to say this is strictly about comparing the two.

It's a testament to Cam's natural abilities that he could play in the NHL at 18. But after 3 years in the NHL we can't keep referring to his age as an excuse for his regression on offense. He is not a 21 year old NHL rookie, he is a 3 year NHL vet.
Fowler hasn't regressed overall. Yes, his offensive numbers have regressed, but his role and overall play has significantly increased. That isn't regression. Also, when you consider how poorly he seems to be used on the PP, some of those issues on offense are explainable.

Also, he might be a 3 year NHL vet, but he is still just a 21 year old 3 year vet, playing a position where players are typically closer to 25 when they really start to hit their stride.

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10-16-2013, 03:19 PM
  #977
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Fowler is going through a bunch of **** in his personal life.

I still think he becomes a top pairing defenseman.
Didnt know we had Fowlers Psychologist in here lol..

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10-16-2013, 03:21 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Fowler hasn't regressed overall. Yes, his offensive numbers have regressed, but his role and overall play has significantly increased. That isn't regression. Also, when you consider how poorly he seems to be used on the PP, some of those issues on offense are explainable.

Also, he might be a 3 year NHL vet, but he is still just a 21 year old 3 year vet, playing a position where players are typically closer to 25 when they really start to hit their stride.
Can I just come out and say why you always nit pick last sentences or paragraphs? You have a knack of doing so and apparently on other loyal posters as well. Do you ever enjoy a full thought of another member? No need to stir **** up. I'm just asking. Everything is a argument with you.

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10-16-2013, 03:24 PM
  #979
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Can I just come out and say why you always nit pick last sentences? You have a knack of doing so and apparently on other loyal posters as well. Do you ever enjoy a full thought of another member? No need to stir **** up. I'm just asking. Everything is a argument with you.
That wasn't nitpicking, it was pointing out that being a 3 year vet does not change the fact that Fowler is still 21 years old. A 21 year old defenseman who is, currently, anchoring our top D pairing.

And this is a discussion board. I'm going to discuss what is said. Deal with it.

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10-16-2013, 03:26 PM
  #980
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@AnaheimDucks: #NHLDucks @Dustinpenner25 skated again this morning on a line with Getzlaf and Perry. http://t.co/lDMCW670W7
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@icemancometh: Looks like Dustin Penner will be back in for the Ducks tonight and up on the top line with Getzlaf and Perry.
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@icemancometh: Luca Sbisa (ankle) had controlled skate today. Said he's going on 8-game trip and hoping to be ready at back end of it.
So who sits?

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10-16-2013, 03:27 PM
  #981
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Maroon?

Edit: Stephens posted the expected lines for tonight's game, but it's behind the paywall.

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10-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #982
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So who sits?
I'd expect it to be between Maroon, Etem, or Palmieri.

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10-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #983
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Probably Palmieri. He'll get the selanne sit out games.

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10-16-2013, 03:28 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Fowler hasn't regressed overall. Yes, his offensive numbers have regressed, but his role and overall play has significantly increased. That isn't regression. Also, when you consider how poorly he seems to be used on the PP, some of those issues on offense are explainable.

Also, he might be a 3 year NHL vet, but he is still just a 21 year old 3 year vet, playing a position where players are typically closer to 25 when they really start to hit their stride.
It's not just his numbers, it's his actual offense play/instincts that has regressed.

As to the PP, I admit I'm baffled. Could he be utilized better on the PP? Well, yes, if he still has the Fowler of old offensive instincts. Based on his current offensive instincts, I don't know. There must be a reason why coaches who get paid to make those decisions (and fired for making the wrong ones) continue using him like they do. But I really would like to hear BB address how Fowler is and isn't used on the PP. It could be enlightening to all of us.

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10-16-2013, 03:30 PM
  #985
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I haven't seen Calgary play this year. Would Etem Bonino Maroon be better for size purposes? Maroon also goes better to the top line if Penner re-injures his mystery ailment.

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I'd expect it to be between Maroon, Etem, or Palmieri.
Thank you, captain obvious

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10-16-2013, 03:31 PM
  #986
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Fowler is going through a bunch of **** in his personal life.

I still think he becomes a top pairing defenseman.
Break up with his GF? Haha

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10-16-2013, 03:33 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
It's not just his numbers, it's his actual offense play/instincts that has regressed.

As to the PP, I admit I'm baffled. Could he be utilized better on the PP? Well, yes, if he still has the Fowler of old offensive instincts. Based on his current offensive instincts, I don't know. There must be a reason why coaches who get paid to make those decisions (and fired for making the wrong ones) continue using him like they do. But I really would like to hear BB address how Fowler is and isn't used on the PP. It could be enlightening to all of us.
I'm not convinced his actual offensive play/instincts have regressed. I think he's just playing more conservative, and focusing on the defensive side of things.

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10-16-2013, 03:33 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
It's not just his numbers, it's his actual offense play/instincts that has regressed.

As to the PP, I admit I'm baffled. Could he be utilized better on the PP? Well, yes, if he still has the Fowler of old offensive instincts. Based on his current offensive instincts, I don't know. There must be a reason why coaches who get paid to make those decisions (and fired for making the wrong ones) continue using him like they do. But I really would like to hear BB address how Fowler is and isn't used on the PP. It could be enlightening to all of us.
I dunno. Fowler's offensive play is like our PP: Great chances, but nothing's still going in.

As for Fowler's overall game, he's the helm of our defense. Right now, he's our #1 defenseman who's only 21. His role has increased as well as responsibility. I don't mind waiting for Fowler's offense to develop, but let's not neglect that he can push the puck or get the puck out of our zone. That's a more important responsibility that I like more than Fowler trying to score. We have four lines of talent laden scoring forwards for that.

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10-16-2013, 03:35 PM
  #989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
It's not just his numbers, it's his actual offense play/instincts that has regressed.

As to the PP, I admit I'm baffled. Could he be utilized better on the PP? Well, yes, if he still has the Fowler of old offensive instincts. Based on his current offensive instincts, I don't know. There must be a reason why coaches who get paid to make those decisions (and fired for making the wrong ones) continue using him like they do. But I really would like to hear BB address how Fowler is and isn't used on the PP. It could be enlightening to all of us.
The only thing I can think of is that they want someone on the point who's actually got defensive ability in case of a breakout. Getzlaf is frequently too gassed and/or out of position after some risky pass, and I don't think they trust Vatanen. Fowler on the point may just be a safety maneuver to prevent shorties.

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10-16-2013, 03:36 PM
  #990
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I haven't seen Calgary play this year. Would Etem Bonino Maroon be better for size purposes? Maroon also goes better to the top line if Penner re-injures his mystery ailment.
Good question. I really haven't seen them. Size vs. speed?


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10-16-2013, 03:36 PM
  #991
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I'm not convinced his actual offensive play/instincts have regressed. I think he's just playing more conservative, and focusing on the defensive side of things.
He has basically underhanded it to the goalie quite a few times this year.

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10-16-2013, 03:37 PM
  #992
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Only if "looking better" is taken in a vacuum. Looking better playing the 3rd pairing isn't the same as looking better plaguing the top pairing. The amount of ice time and the difficulty of match ups are night and day different. That's like saying that because Allen and Vatanen look great together as a 3rd pairing they'll do just as well if we play them as the top pairing.

And like AD said - he IS meeting reasonable expectations. And Sbisa did regress last year. He went from looking like a reliable mid pair to someone who needs babysitting on the bottom pair. Fowler has gone from a high scoring questionable defensively mid pair D to a responsible defensive puck moving mid pair D who can't score, who is being asked to anchor the top pair. He screws up regularly, but he should be when you actually look at his age and who he's playing with.
I'm not disputing your first paragraph, but neither am I willing to give all the credit to Fowler. Lovejoy has pointed out how he feels his career was revived coming here. His mental attitude and confidence is higher than it's been in years. That's way more a change of scenery and coaches than who he is skating with.

Paragraph 2 - Saying he is meeting reasonable expectations in no different than me saying that with no expectations considered, he is playing well. Which is something I said elsewhere. So I have no issue with that.

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10-16-2013, 03:38 PM
  #993
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I'd expect it to be between Maroon, Etem, or Palmieri.
Maroon, Bank on it..

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10-16-2013, 03:38 PM
  #994
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He has basically underhanded it to the goalie quite a few times this year.
He's also had a few good opportunities that were nearly goals. Let's not exaggerate the shooting thing. His shot looks better this season, and he seems to be doing a better job of getting it through.

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10-16-2013, 03:41 PM
  #995
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I'm not disputing your first paragraph, but neither am I willing to give all the credit to Fowler. Lovejoy has pointed out how he feels his career was revived coming here. His mental attitude and confidence is higher than it's been in years. That's way more a change of scenery and coaches than who he is skating with.

Paragraph 2 - Saying he is meeting reasonable expectations in no different than me saying that with no expectations considered, he is playing well. Which is something I said elsewhere. So I have no issue with that.
Fair enough on both points. Lovejoy is definitely better than advertised. I think we have three pairings that perform better than the sum of their parts. BB seems to be pretty adept at creating those pairs.

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10-16-2013, 03:42 PM
  #996
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Next.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1518063

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