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Way around the no re-signing bought out players

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Old
07-12-2005, 10:38 AM
  #1
Leaf the Lucky
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Way around the no re-signing bought out players

Couldn't you technically get another team to make the contract offer and when its accepted, you trade them?

This will evidently cost the team who wants the player a small fee....like a draft pick of sorts. However, a scenario like this seems perfectly possible.

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07-12-2005, 11:08 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf the Lucky
Couldn't you technically get another team to make the contract offer and when its accepted, you trade them?

This will evidently cost the team who wants the player a small fee....like a draft pick of sorts. However, a scenario like this seems perfectly possible.


yep
i dont think too many teams will want to trade tho
for example : with nolan, wait till he's bought out by the leafs, then sign him for half price
and if they cant get nolan theyl probably find a good UFA as an alternative

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07-12-2005, 11:19 AM
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They'll likely have a clause to cover this, similar to what happened to Drury (IIRC). A team that buys out, loses to waivers, or trades a player may not re-acquire him (or at least play him) for the remainder of that season.

Just my guess.

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07-12-2005, 11:28 AM
  #4
MojoJojo
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Even if they can't write a clause to cover every scenario, the league still gets final approval of all contracts and trades. If it appeared that a couple teams were colluding to make an end run around the cap, they could just arbitrarily squash it.

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07-12-2005, 11:30 AM
  #5
timlap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Even if they can't write a clause to cover every scenario, the league still gets final approval of all contracts and trades. If it appeared that a couple teams were colluding to make an end run around the cap, they could just arbitrarily squash it.
Arbitrarily? I doubt it.

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07-12-2005, 11:31 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Even if they can't write a clause to cover every scenario, the league still gets final approval of all contracts and trades. If it appeared that a couple teams were colluding to make an end run around the cap, they could just arbitrarily squash it.
That I don't think is true .. If the CBA does not have anything in it to prevent it .. I don't believe the NHL can veto a trade or deal that does not violate the rules of the CBA..

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07-12-2005, 12:02 PM
  #7
Darth Milbury
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Well, on thing is clear, the Leafs will not be able to get around the need to buyout players by renegotiating contracts. According to TSN, that will not be allowed under the new CBA:

"There is all sorts of talk that players will have to renegotiate their contracts to get underneath the salary cap...that is not going to be allowed. Players are not going to be allowed to renegotiate their contracts. They are stuck with the deal unless they are bought out"


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07-12-2005, 12:17 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Well, on thing is clear, the Leafs will not be able to get around the need to buyout players by renegotiating contracts. According to TSN, that will not be allowed under the new CBA:

"There is all sorts of talk that players will have to renegotiate their contracts to get underneath the salary cap...that is not going to be allowed. Players are not going to be allowed to renegotiate their contracts. They are stuck with the deal unless they are bought out"

Thats gay!!!

what happends if your over.. does the NHl just take a player away???? or do you have to buy someone out?

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07-12-2005, 12:17 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Well, on thing is clear, the Leafs will not be able to get around the need to buyout players by renegotiating contracts. According to TSN, that will not be allowed under the new CBA:

"There is all sorts of talk that players will have to renegotiate their contracts to get underneath the salary cap...that is not going to be allowed. Players are not going to be allowed to renegotiate their contracts. They are stuck with the deal unless they are bought out"
I personally do not see that as a bad thing ..

It is not the responsibility of players to make cap room for the owners to ice competitive teams .. If that is not possible then the CBA is to blame that they negotiated ..

It actually protects the players from owners that may want to use brass knuckles and tactics to get players to restructure or use fan pressure to achieve it ..

This way its nice an clean.. No need asking because its not possible ..

Now it unfortunately means rather then give the player like a Nolan an opportunity to stay with his team ,and a buyout is almost a given now .. But the NHLPA with say money in hand and the opportunity to sign elsewhere means more money to the players ..

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07-12-2005, 12:34 PM
  #10
Darth Milbury
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Either way, this is only a short-term issue. The really problematic contracts will eventually go away. In the meantime, I can't see how all this is going to work without some kind of grandfathering.

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07-12-2005, 12:36 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Well, on thing is clear, the Leafs will not be able to get around the need to buyout players by renegotiating contracts. According to TSN, that will not be allowed under the new CBA:

"There is all sorts of talk that players will have to renegotiate their contracts to get underneath the salary cap...that is not going to be allowed. Players are not going to be allowed to renegotiate their contracts. They are stuck with the deal unless they are bought out"
Well, that is a load of BS anyways!
...if a max contract is 20% of the cap or 7.4 million, players like Jagr who after rollback are still at 8.36 million are already above that figure ...you cannot force a team to buyout a contract, and players always renegotiate thier contracts, although it's usually for a raise or a few more years ...that will not change.

/edit ...Lidstrom is also over the max, do you think Detroit would want to lose him by buying him out?

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07-12-2005, 12:41 PM
  #12
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The assumptions seems to be that the "no buyout" rule will simply apply to current contracts, but until we see the deal we won't really know.

I see where both sides are coming from in wanting this as part of the transitional rules, but it is more important to the PA and a small concession from the owners.

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07-12-2005, 12:48 PM
  #13
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NHLPA would argue against any restructuring.

NHL would probably go for it.

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07-12-2005, 12:49 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Well, that is a load of BS anyways!
...if a max contract is 20% of the cap or 7.4 million, players like Jagr who after rollback are still at 8.36 million are already above that figure ...you cannot force a team to buyout a contract, and players always renegotiate thier contracts, although it's usually for a raise or a few more years ...that will not change.

/edit ...Lidstrom is also over the max, do you think Detroit would want to lose him by buying him out?
I agree. The NHL has NO say whether or not a player renegotiates a current contract with their team. If the NHL tries to interfer with this then the new CBA may as well just abolish ALL current contracts and everyone is now a free agent and can negotiate with any team they want.

Why should teams like Washington and Pittsburgh be rewarded a second time (their first reward was their draft postion in the 2004 NHL draft) for selling off their high priced players during the 2003-2004 season.

Or, there needs to be a grandfathering clause which allows teams to grandfather in the current contracts (after the rollback). That way within 3-4 years, all teams would be under the salary cap, but wouldn't have to dump salary this season or next to worry about getting under the cap.

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Old
07-12-2005, 01:33 PM
  #15
Darth Milbury
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And, why should teams that have given out irresponsible contracts be rewarded with a systems that allows them to renegotiate past mistakes?

More importantly, from the CBA perspective, why would the NHLPA want to set up a system that allows management to pressure key players into costly renegotiations?

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07-12-2005, 02:10 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
And, why should teams that have given out irresponsible contracts be rewarded with a systems that allows them to renegotiate past mistakes?

More importantly, from the CBA perspective, why would the NHLPA want to set up a system that allows management to pressure key players into costly renegotiations?
because they were operating within the system, and did nothing wrong, just stupid maybe ...yashin contract for a prime example

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Old
07-12-2005, 02:28 PM
  #17
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Here's a sure-fire " Way around the no re-signing bought out players":

draft well, sign players to responsible contracts, don't inflate the market with absurd free-agent signings, don't manipulate the system with myopic activities that will hurt the league, be fair-minded and have honour.

Problem is, the Leafs have never been very good at any of those things, have they?

Only the lowest of the low would be looking for a way to circumvent a new system designed to give teams an equal footing.

Are Leafs fans really the lowest of the low?

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07-12-2005, 02:31 PM
  #18
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im not gonna read the entire thread but how about this

To TEAM X
Owen Nolan, Cash
To Toronto
conditional pick

TEAM X then buys out nolan with the cash given by toronto
toronto then re-signs nolan


good eh?

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07-12-2005, 02:35 PM
  #19
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I'd expect that there'd be a clause like "If you buy out Player X's contract, Player X cannot be re-signed or reacquired in trade for 12 months."

A similar situation happened a couple years ago with Dean McAmmond, where the Flames traded him just prior to the waiver draft, then reacquired him later in the year. There was a clause in the last CBA where if you traded a player within a certain period before the waiver draft, you were not allowed to reacquire him.

In that instance, the Flames were not trying to get around the rule, it was just that everybody (except for George McPhee) forgot that rule even existed. That rule was to prevent say Philadelphia from trading something like Radovan Somik to Columbus for a 5th rounder, then re-acquiring him immediately after the draft for a 4th rounder after the waiver draft.

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Old
07-12-2005, 02:35 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilsson Schmilsson
Here's a sure-fire " Way to make a business successful":

Establish your market, cater to it, adjust prices to reflect demand, work within a budget that would allow for profit, don't be mislead into believing you're working with a market that isn't there.

Problem is, many teams have never been very good at any of those things, have they?

Only the lowest of the low would be looking for a way to lower a succesful business to their standards.

Are non hockey market fans really the lowest of the low?
I agree.

Welcome aboard noob !

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Old
07-12-2005, 02:37 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
im not gonna read the entire thread but how about this

To TEAM X
Owen Nolan, Cash
To Toronto
conditional pick

TEAM X then buys out nolan with the cash given by toronto
toronto then re-signs nolan


good eh?
Hadn't thought of it like that. Albeit, team X would probably need a little more motivation. Especially if there's still a max amount of cash that a team is allowed to trade a la when the Rangers bought.....I mean traded for Kovalev

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Old
07-12-2005, 02:52 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
I agree.
thanks for proving my point about leafs fans having no honour.

Is it really your position that teams in huge hockey markets (with market exclusivity clauses, that is. oh, whoops, does that blow your "successful business operation" notion out of the water?) should have all of the best players? Sounds like that would be a really fun league. What's the end-game buddy?

So apparently do (some) Leafs fans not only lack honour, they lack foresight as well.

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07-12-2005, 03:09 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur
Hadn't thought of it like that. Albeit, team X would probably need a little more motivation. Especially if there's still a max amount of cash that a team is allowed to trade a la when the Rangers bought.....I mean traded for Kovalev
Maybe a low level pick? Maybe trading Nolan and a maxed limit on the cash in one trade and then in another trade trade a 8th round pick and the rest of the cash? two separate trades.

It's not like the team (that buys out nolan) would be losing anything by doing this deal.

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Old
07-12-2005, 03:11 PM
  #24
Mess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilsson Schmilsson
thanks for proving my point about leafs fans having no honour.

Is it really your position that teams in huge hockey markets (with market exclusivity clauses, that is. oh, whoops, does that blow your "successful business operation" notion out of the water?) should have all of the best players? Sounds like that would be a really fun league. What's the end-game buddy?

So apparently do (some) Leafs fans not only lack honour, they lack foresight as well.
Are you okay making your speech from there or can I get you a soap box.??

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Old
07-12-2005, 03:19 PM
  #25
mydnyte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilsson Schmilsson
Are Leafs fans really the lowest of the low?
Not while there is still a team in New York (not the Isle)

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