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Old
07-12-2005, 03:28 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empireshark
You might want to take note to the part of the article which states "it can't happen due to the amount of cap space available right now". That's the part most leaf fans seem to disregard.
I'm sorry I thought I was debunking your theory that Leaf fans say all players are coming to Toronto?.

No need to trade for him now anyways .. Just good planning in 2 years when he is a UFA ..

Actually it might be best if he was traded to Florida now . That way when Luongo is UFA as well soon then Fergy can cut down on costs and save the dime and kill two birds with one stone and tell Little Joe to bring Roberto along with him at the same time when he arrives.


Last edited by Mess: 07-12-2005 at 04:30 PM.
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Old
07-12-2005, 03:28 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Potvin never wanted to leave. ...but seriously, there are only 2 'good' french canadian goalies in the league anyways ...oh, wait, Roy retired ...make that one.
Be careful what you say ... leaf fans are sensitive, but seriously I've got to get back to my accounting business.

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Old
07-12-2005, 03:40 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empireshark
Be careful what you say ... leaf fans are sensitive, but seriously I've got to get back to my accounting business.
I guess we'll have to see how many good goalies there are without the Michelin Man pads on, French, Swiss, Italian, Polish, whatever.

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Old
07-12-2005, 03:53 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I'm sorry I thought I was debunking your theory that Leaf fans say all players are coming to Toronto?.

No need trade to trade for him now anyways .. Just good planning in 2 years when he is a UFA ..

Actually it might be best if he was traded to Florida now . That way when Luongo is UFA as well soon then Fergy can cut down on costs and save the dime and kill two birds with one stone and tell Little Joe to bring Roberto along with him at the same time when he arrives.
Forget Thornton - The Leafs will clearly be too crowded down the middle to sign him with Sundin, Lindros, Allison, Antropov, Steen, Stajan and Wellwood all being natural centres.

Order that Luongo jersey anytime you want though.

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Old
07-12-2005, 03:53 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empireshark
Be careful what you say ... leaf fans are sensitive, but seriously I've got to get back to my accounting business.
Hint : He is a Leafs fan..

You mean its your business that you are a Habs fan, however there is no accounting for taste .

You made it sound that you were going to spend the afternoon hiding revenue the way you worded your sentance ..

Don't forget to fill out the guest card on your departure and let us know how you enjoyed your stay and how we can improve to make you feel more welcome next time you stop by..

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07-12-2005, 03:55 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Potvin never wanted to leave. ...but seriously, there are only 2 'good' french canadian goalies in the league anyways ...oh, wait, Roy retired ...make that one.
what about Luongo
i know he's italian, but he's also from Montreal

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Old
07-12-2005, 03:59 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
Forget Thornton - The Leafs will clearly be too crowded down the middle to sign him with Sundin, Lindros, Allison, Antropov, Steen, Stajan and Wellwood all being natural centres.

Order that Luongo jersey anytime you want though.
Our Leaf players are very versatile they can play all 3 forward positions in fact .

I hope your not suggesting we play all those old guys like Lindros and Allison in a few years when we can be bringing in these young 27 Franchise players .

Heck even Mats is going to have to move to wing when we have Thornton and Vincent Lecavalier as our top two centers in a couple years.

Our future is so bright we got to wear shades ..

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Old
07-12-2005, 04:05 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Our Leaf players are very verstatile they can play all 3 forward positions in fact .

I hope your not suggesting we play all those old guys like Lindros and Allison in a few years when we can be bringing in these young 27 Franchise players .

Heck even Mats is going to have to move to wing when we have Thornton and Vincent Lecavalier as our top two centers in a couple years.

Our future is so bright we got to wear shades ..
If I didn't know better I'd actually think you were serious. (then again?)

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Old
07-12-2005, 04:14 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
So, cornering a market is a bad plan of operation for business? Riiiiiiight. And I'm sure Bill Gates would be as much a billionare if he originally opted for windows to be open source.
Hey smart guy, the business is THE WHOLE LEAGUE, not just the Leafs. I guess you'd prefer to just watch inter-squad games in the Toronto Maple Leaf Hockey League?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
How about, if you are actually a fan of one of these non traditional hockey market teams you get off you ass, and attempt to get a few friends involved in the sport, get them to accompany you to the arena and support the franchise, rather than ask us (the fans of the succesful franchise) to assist in your arena admission by forking over a percentage of our absurd (but admittedly marketable) ticket price.

Well, I knew I'd face ridiculous claims on a Leafs board, but I guess I underestimated by a bit. How exactly are the Leaf fans paying for other fans' admission?

In a true revenue sharing system, that might be partially true; however, what is on the table is not that. The only thing that is going to happen under a cap is that MLSE profits will go up, since their payroll will decrease. They'll still sell out every night. Leaf fans aren't the most discriminating individuals.

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Old
07-12-2005, 04:19 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
If I didn't know better I'd actually think you were serious. (then again?)
Pardon ??

1 ). I am sure you have been around here enough to hear Fergy say he will be focussing on prospect development ... Right ??

2 ). I am sure you're aware that Revenue Sharing will be a part of the next CBA .. Right??

3 ). I'm sure you're aware of the rumour of the dramatic drop in UFA age over this CBA ..Right ??

Well what do you think this all means ??

Apply all three items above and you will see that Toronto is using these small market teams as their farm system for development purposes as Fergy promises, of which we are funding them for via revenue sharing and once these players have reached the age of 27 and are ready for Prime Time we move them to the big parent team in Toronto via the UFA rule.

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Old
07-12-2005, 04:23 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
what about Luongo
i know he's italian, but he's also from Montreal
Being from Montreal makes you French Canadian like a beard makes you a better prospect.

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Old
07-12-2005, 04:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Pardon ??

1 ). I am sure you have been around here enough to hear Fergy say he will be focussing on prospect development ... Right ??

2 ). I am sure you're aware that Revenue Sharing will be a part of the next CBA .. Right??

3 ). I'm sure you're aware of the rumour of the dramatic drop in UFA age over this CBA ..Right ??

Well what do you think this all means ??

Apply all three items above and you will see that Toronto is using these small market teams as their farm system for development purposes as Fergy promises, of which we are funding them for via revenue sharing and once these players have reached the age of 27 and are ready for Prime Time we move them to the big parent team in Toronto via the UFA rule.
Elementary.

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Old
07-12-2005, 04:37 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Elementary.
That is correct Watson ..

But I had to spell it out so others could understand what it all means ..

The game is a foot and we must now wait for the ink to dry on the new CBA so we can put the master plan into practice ..


Last edited by Mess: 07-12-2005 at 05:44 PM.
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Old
07-12-2005, 04:58 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilsson Schmilsson
Hey smart guy, the business is THE WHOLE LEAGUE, not just the Leafs. I guess you'd prefer to just watch inter-squad games in the Toronto Maple Leaf Hockey League?
The league is the entity in which Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment Limited(herein referred to as MLSEL) operates. You are correct in assuming the survival of the National Hockey League as an entity directly affects how much the hockey operations of MLSEL accumulates. However, MLSEL being an independant business outside of the NHL which includes operations in the NBA, NLL, ACC, television and soon to be Maple Leaf Square Entertainment Complex. The NHL has squat all to do with those operations (aside from perhaps giving Leafs TV something worth broadcasting). The investors are interested 'only' in how much the bottom line is for their own limited corporation.

Similarly, McDonalds is a business, and within that business there are franchises, privately owned and operated. Owner X may have several investments and his particular McDonalds a part of it. You really think Owner X's investment perils if Owner Y down the street also owning a McDonalds can no longer sustain itself? Is it fair for Owner X to be asked to subsidize Owner Y so that he may maintain his franchise to the level of barely breaking even? Especially if Owner Y decided to put that McDonalds within boundries of an area configured majorily of non-beef eaters?
-or-
Should Owner X wait for Owner Y to fold shop, making the nearest McDonalds no closer than 10kms away, and attend the bankruptcy sale to buy Owner Y's liquidated assets at a discounted price to improve upon the efficiency of his own restaurant so that he may gaurantee a better product to his paying customers.

Similarly if there were fewer bottom feeding teams in the NHL the more talented players would be re-distributed amongst the survivors allowing them to get rid of the fringe minor league players, gauranteeing a better on ice product for their fans. The bar for where teams can standardize would be raised as the welfare teams are eliminated, fewer teams asking for handouts, and those in genuine need of assistance (based on population, not % of interest in population) ie. Calgary, Edmonton etc. would get a greater percentage of the pie to distribute on the ice.

Quote:
Well, I knew I'd face ridiculous claims on a Leafs board, but I guess I underestimated by a bit. How exactly are the Leaf fans paying for other fans' admission?
Correct me on two points here if I'm wrong.
1. Latest we're hearing would see the Top 10 teams distribute a % of their revenue to the bottom 10. Right?
2. The NHL for the most part is Gate Driven league where revenues are concerned. Right?
And a little fact, tickets for Leafs games are in some cases triple what other teams charge.
So, where exactly is this money coming from that's being re-distributed? That's right, the attending Leafs' fans pockets.

Quote:
Leaf fans aren't the most discriminating individuals.
That you are correct. We stand by our team through thick and thin. Marriage vows don't have squat on our loyalty.

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Old
07-12-2005, 05:00 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
because they were operating within the system, and did nothing wrong, just stupid maybe ...yashin contract for a prime example
Yashin's contract is irrelevant. We're talking about the Leafs here.

And, the Leafs were not operating within the system. They knew a CBA was coming that would contain a possible salary gap. But, they gambled and decided to make some big signings anyway. If that gamble doesn't work out, you can hardly blame the NHL or the new CBA.

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Old
07-12-2005, 05:06 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Being from Montreal makes you French Canadian like a beard makes you a better prospect.
....so whats your point?

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Old
07-12-2005, 05:07 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
And, why should teams that have given out irresponsible contracts be rewarded with a systems that allows them to renegotiate past mistakes?

More importantly, from the CBA perspective, why would the NHLPA want to set up a system that allows management to pressure key players into costly renegotiations?
Because if the amount of the original contract is spread over a number of years then the original NHLPA member keeps the full value of his contract and it frees up cap space for another NHLPA member.

The NHLPA benefits.

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Old
07-12-2005, 05:34 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat
....so whats your point?
Are you serious?

Ok, let's back it up for you.

How is Luongo French Canadian because he's from Montreal?

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Old
07-12-2005, 06:01 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Because if the amount of the original contract is spread over a number of years then the original NHLPA member keeps the full value of his contract and it frees up cap space for another NHLPA member.

The NHLPA benefits.
How do you come up with this stuff ?? Restructuring doesn't do that .. If Mats makes $6 mil and you only have $1 mil cap space left then the next player makes $1 mil .. Together its $7 mil total .. If Mats restructures and now makes $5 mil instead the cap becomes $2 mil and the next player gets paid $2 mil and together with Mats they make $7 mil again .. NO difference at all ..

What you are suggesting via restructuring is really asking Mats to revenue share with the next player so he can have his salary topped up ..

THERE IS ZERO GAIN TO THE NHLPA ...

The 30 teams all employ about 23 players and together each team needs to be below the cap.

Restructuring jobs has nothing to do with creating more jobs .. Restructuring is a tool that allows Owners to put the profit above the Hard Cap Figure into their own pockets and divert the attention with this slight on hand trick on to the greedy player to the fans and blaming the teams lack of success for not renegotiating on Mats.

If you can't make a competitive team on the ice at the Cap limit .. Then raise the bar, but don't ask players that have given more then their share back, in order to give more to compensate for a bad CBA ..

The pan handling teams are lowering the quality of the on ice product because they require the bar to be set so low that for their sake that REAL teams and hockey markets have to pay for that because their entertainment cost remains the same the owner makes more money and the weakness in the plan shows up on the ice in the composition on the team and the win losses.

Angry fans will soon see the fruits of this battle and the CBA as pro-owners that they wished for ..

Why would a player like Sundin restructure anyways .. He is the Leafs leader and plays like it day in and day out .. He deserves every penny he gets and Leaf fans gladly give it to see him do his thing .. Restructuring just costs him his own money. If Mats is still playing at a high level when this current deal expires then he will automatically get a new deal at the end .. No need to take less money now so he can get an extension on a deal he is very likely going to receive anyways ..


Last edited by Mess: 07-12-2005 at 06:25 PM.
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Old
07-12-2005, 06:31 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Are you serious?

Ok, let's back it up for you.

How is Luongo French Canadian because he's from Montreal?
i dont think you caught onto my joke

(i was focusing on the beard part....cuz we all know its true, so then that means luongo IS french canadian...eh?)

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Old
07-12-2005, 06:50 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
. . .
And, the Leafs were not operating within the system.
Obviously, they were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
. . .they gambled and decided to make some big signings anyway. . .
Which big signings do you mean? Belfour, I assume. Anyone else?

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Old
07-12-2005, 07:06 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Because if the amount of the original contract is spread over a number of years then the original NHLPA member keeps the full value of his contract and it frees up cap space for another NHLPA member.

The NHLPA benefits.
Incorrect.

That is just nonsense.

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Old
07-12-2005, 07:42 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Elementary.
I gets even better in fact

Rick Nash, Kovalchuk , Dany Heatley to become UFAs @ 25 YO

As per TSN hockey panel... Just discussed

Now all it takes is 7 years of NHL experience to become an unrestricted free agent under the new CBA .. never mind the 27 years of age .. Players that join the league as 18 year olds will be free at 25..

If I'm also not mistaken, no player's salary can exceed more than 20% of the team's payroll. So either Nash would have to accept less money to stay with the Jackets than he would ordinarily get or Columbus will have to increase their payroll/budget to meet Nash's salary demands.

Prospect development in Toronto has never been better then this ..

heck go a head and trade away draft picks in order to win a Cup if you can get these kind of 25 year olds as UFA and all it takes is money where being the NHL's richest team will have its perks ..

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Old
07-12-2005, 07:46 PM
  #74
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*insert leaf-hater comment here*

"HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY WOULD EVEN WANT TO PLAY IN TORONTO! YOU LEAF FANS ARE SO DELUSIONAL!"

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Old
07-12-2005, 08:24 PM
  #75
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Does this 7 year service rule make Joe Thornton a UFA instead of a RFA

1997-98 Boston Bruins NHL
1998-99 Boston Bruins NHL
1999-00 Boston Bruins NHL
2000-01 Boston Bruins NHL
2001-02 Boston Bruins NHL
2002-03 Boston Bruins NHL
2003-04 Boston Bruins NHL

7 Years of bad luck because he broke a mirror or walked under a ladder could soon be at an end !!!

1998-99 Tampa-Bay Lightning
1999-00 Tampa-Bay Lightning
2000-01 Tampa-Bay Lightning
2001-02 Tampa-Bay Lightning
2002-03 Tampa-Bay Lightning
2003-04 Tampa-Bay Lightning

Or Vinny Lecavalier after 1 more year of service

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