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KHL Expansion part III

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Old
12-05-2013, 06:37 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Does that remain that Lev would be finished or that both Lev and Sparta would play in the KHL?
it is tabloid only, who knows? You know, Sparta celebrates its 110 anniversary these days. Veterans of Sparta will play against Gazprom Export, so Medvedev. Nobody confirms Sparta joining KHL...

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12-05-2013, 06:59 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post


KHL boss wants Sparta in the league. Nice
I think it is just title to sell, but who knows. Blesk is a creative tabloid, they dont write about news, they create news

I would like it, i started follow Lev, cause many people hate him

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12-05-2013, 07:07 AM
  #478
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There are negotiations behind scenes, but nobody confirms it untill it is done deal (Jokerit case). I dont think Sparta plays KHL next season or +/- 5 yrs. Another point of view is what happens when KHL fully developped? There is a reason why Sparta and Lev have the same owner... Sparta is not there to be farm team of Lev forever.

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12-05-2013, 08:16 AM
  #479
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It's completely impossible to form a new team in Sweden, especially in Stockholm, and make it join KHL. They could never get new fans, no one would care about them and the "boring" Russian teams they'd play. It'd be 400 people watching at most.

If we take a look at Frölunda, there's no reason for them to join the KHL. They're a core team in the SHL and have a steady 9-10k in the attendance every game. They're going nowhere for the next 10 years minimum.

Then we take a look at aik, the Stockholm club in the SHL. They're on the breaking point economically with an attendance around 4000. There's a real risk they will get relegated this season and with that comes a very difficult economic situation.

Their twin/rival club (my club) Djurgårdens IF are in an even worse situation right now, playing the 2nd league, but with an attendance around 6000 the economic situation is stable for now.

Both of these clubs goes an uneven fight against Stockholm politics and the future of Stockholm Hockey looks really dark. This is a very bad situation for hockey in Sweden, as around 25% of all the registered players comes from the Stockholm region and without a team in the first league there's a risk for a decay of talent in Swedish hockey.

If bad goes to worse the KHL could be the last chance of saving professional hockey in the Capital.

There are no other teams of interest. Perhaps Malmö could be a candidate to join the league, with their modern arena (where WJC will be played later this month).

For me, the criterias that needs to be matched before I can even consider joining the KHL:

-The economy of my club collapses
-At least three Swedish teams joins the KHL simultaneously (DIF, aik, Malmö/Frölunda)
-The arena ("Hovet") completely reconstructed (We can play in "Globen" meanwhile)
-DIF being allowed to sell their own TV-rights and make alot of money from that
-At least 50% of income in the arena during match day goes into DIF pockets
-A European Conference is created which would significantly reduce the amount of games played against teams from Moscow or further East

Even with all these criterias met, many fans would be totally against joining the league. I can see this being the case at some Jokerit fans. Imagine things being 10 times worse.

BUT, there is potential since the Djurgården fan base is pretty huge, and with a good team, alot of rivalry games and a real chance for a playoff spot I can see Djurgården being around 7000 people every game, aik around 5000, Frölunda around 12000 and Malmö around 7000.

I think I have a good sense of how Swedish hockey works and how the mindset of Swedish fans work. At the same time I follow the KHL and know what joining the league would mean. Feel free to ask questions.

This is a very interesting topic.

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12-05-2013, 09:13 AM
  #480
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Very interesting and NOT BIASED point of view from swedish poster, pulverapa.

According to my knowledge, KHL does not want to create "Lev´s" in Sweden, Germany, others. This strategy is not on the table anymore. KHL wants current clubs, like AIK, DIF etc.

If I understand, DIF is in difficult situation.. Allsvenskan, little chance to promote (the same for Malmo). Why should DIF or others play Allsvenskan if there is an opportunity to play KHL? The same AIK.

The criterias

- I dont think KHL accepts 3+ swedish club in one offseason. That is too many. Even the best swedish clubs would have problem to fullfill KHL minimal criterias for budget, arena etc.

- Yes, arena would be reconstructed, dont worry. Look at Jokerit and Lev in Prague.

- Not own TV-rights for DIF. League owns TV rights, no club can negotiate them. KHL does not share tv money with clubs. Why? Because it would be pointless... now. KHL will share tv/sponsor money in future. When? When is fully developped.

- At least 50% of income in the arena during match day goes into DIF pockets - no problem

- A European Conference - all depends when would DIF joined. Now or when there are german, suiss clubs. Maybe within 5 yrs we will have euro conference (with SKA, CSKA, Dynamo Msk). KHL will reduce amount of russian clubs to have 14-16 russian clubs.

- reduce the amount of games played against teams from Moscow or further East - will happen, depends on Euro Hockey Tour and WHC timing....

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12-05-2013, 11:19 AM
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Does that remain that Lev would be finished or that both Lev and Sparta would play in the KHL?
The only reason people are watching Lev Prague is because they are the sole Czech representatives in the league. If Sparta joined KHL, Lev would be leaving immidiately. They still have no fanbase at all unfortunately.

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12-05-2013, 11:53 AM
  #482
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I saw this over the summer, http://chunkletskhl.blogspot.com/201...as-return.html

BUT since then I have not heard anything on the return of Lada to the KHL sometime in the future.

Is the plan still in place? (or is the referenced article defective)


Last edited by Cubanpuckstopper: 12-05-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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12-05-2013, 12:24 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Cubanpuckstopper View Post
I saw this over the summer, http://chunkletskhl.blogspot.com/201...as-return.html

BUT since then I have not heard anything on the return of Lada to the KHL sometime in the future.

Is the plan still in place? (or is the referenced article defective)
I think if KHL management has any sense about it they understand that clubs like Lada belong in the VHL. Sooner rather than later KHL will be forced to get rid of the small unprofitable clubs with no markets (Yugra and Vityaz first and foremost) and not to let somebody in is so much easier than force someone out.

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Old
12-05-2013, 12:31 PM
  #484
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I was under the impression Sparta is totally independent from Lev, other than taking some of their players. ???

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12-05-2013, 12:43 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
I think if KHL management has any sense about it they understand that clubs like Lada belong in the VHL. Sooner rather than later KHL will be forced to get rid of the small unprofitable clubs with no markets (Yugra and Vityaz first and foremost) and not to let somebody in is so much easier than force someone out.
It is so, but Medvedev said multiple times this year that Lada is going to join the league along with Jokerit. Teams like Lada and Severstal have more chances to stay in the league than Vityaz and MNk, because their sponsors are more connected with the teams and can insure these teams financing.

About Lev situation, could it be that SHP is just not fine with having any team in the Extraleague, so they just want to take more traditional and attractive club to the KHL and have no czech league team to pay for at all?

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12-05-2013, 12:46 PM
  #486
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Guys, you know that Samara is located near Togliaty, right?

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Old
12-05-2013, 12:51 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
KHL change strategy of expansion. Sweden, Germany, Switzerland are targets now.
Germany and Switzerland are more sure targets than Sweden, getting team in Sweden would require more resources to spend and manage. Milan is still an option, otherwise they wouldn't use the KHL icons on their jerseys and have plans to join EBEL to develope further, I see it as the league is still trying them out, if they can draw more attendance in the Habsburg league as Zagreb did, they are likely to be the candidates again.

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12-05-2013, 12:54 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Sucrologist View Post
Germany and Switzerland are more sure targets than Sweden, getting team in Sweden would require more resources to spend and manage. Milan is still an option, otherwise they wouldn't use the KHL icons on their jerseys and have plans to join EBEL to develope further, I see it as the league is still trying them out, if they can draw more attendance in the Habsburg league as Zagreb did, they are likely to be the candidates again.
Sweden - I agree but .. if KHL wants swedish club, KHL will have swedish club.

Milan - it could be late

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Old
12-05-2013, 01:13 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Sweden - I agree but .. if KHL wants swedish club, KHL will have swedish club.
So I assume they don't want one? Sweet, we don't want one either. Works out for both parties!

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12-05-2013, 02:16 PM
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubanpuckstopper View Post
I saw this over the summer, http://chunkletskhl.blogspot.com/201...as-return.html

BUT since then I have not heard anything on the return of Lada to the KHL sometime in the future.

Is the plan still in place? (or is the referenced article defective)
I haven't checked in with Lada for about a month or so (note to self: do so soon!), but as of early November there were some concerns about where the budget was going to come from: http://chunkletskhl.blogspot.ca/2013...on-update.html

I'm still on the optimistic side about Lada joining, although less so than I was. They have a very nice new arena, and as somebody else has pointed out on this thread, Tolyatti is right next door to Samara, the 6th-largest city in Russia. As always with the KHL, we shall see!

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Old
12-05-2013, 03:56 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
So I assume they don't want one? Sweet, we don't want one either. Works out for both parties!
I don't even have to read his posts. All I need to see is the name of the poster to know what it will be about, weird

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12-05-2013, 04:01 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan31 View Post
I don't even have to read his posts. All I need to see is the name of the poster to know what it will be about, weird
What's weird about it? It's not a well hidden fact that Sweden has no interest in KHL.

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12-06-2013, 04:08 AM
  #493
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Very interesting and NOT BIASED point of view from swedish poster, pulverapa.

According to my knowledge, KHL does not want to create "Lev´s" in Sweden, Germany, others. This strategy is not on the table anymore. KHL wants current clubs, like AIK, DIF etc.

If I understand, DIF is in difficult situation.. Allsvenskan, little chance to promote (the same for Malmo). Why should DIF or others play Allsvenskan if there is an opportunity to play KHL? The same AIK.

The criterias

- I dont think KHL accepts 3+ swedish club in one offseason. That is too many. Even the best swedish clubs would have problem to fullfill KHL minimal criterias for budget, arena etc.

- Yes, arena would be reconstructed, dont worry. Look at Jokerit and Lev in Prague.

- Not own TV-rights for DIF. League owns TV rights, no club can negotiate them. KHL does not share tv money with clubs. Why? Because it would be pointless... now. KHL will share tv/sponsor money in future. When? When is fully developped.

- At least 50% of income in the arena during match day goes into DIF pockets - no problem

- A European Conference - all depends when would DIF joined. Now or when there are german, suiss clubs. Maybe within 5 yrs we will have euro conference (with SKA, CSKA, Dynamo Msk). KHL will reduce amount of russian clubs to have 14-16 russian clubs.

- reduce the amount of games played against teams from Moscow or further East - will happen, depends on Euro Hockey Tour and WHC timing....
Okay, but DIF has to go at least together with aik. Two clubs should be okay.

Don't worry about the arena? People have waited decades for the politicians to get things going but social care and stuff like that is always more important in Sweden.

TV-rights would be everything for DIF. For too long now, DIF's been carrying the other clubs in this matter, not getting their rightful share. Sometimes DIF games are more expensive to buy on-demand just because they know there are so many people interested.

With DIF's small budget, TV-rights are essential.

To understand how bad it is, I can compare DIF and Salavat Yulaev.

DIF has to start selling season tickets just weeks after the season finishes in order to get the money as fast as possible. In Salavat, being backed by the president of the republic of Bashkortostan, people buy their season ticket a few weeks before the new season starts. There's an endless pit of money and that's why their budget is 20 times bigger than DIF's budget...

Every coin counts for us, and this TV-deal needs to be in place - or KHL, already the worlds most uneven competition, won't see a Swedish team in the league ever.

The resistance is huge. Look at Jonimaus, that says it all.

The biggest fear I have, and many people with me, is that KHL does not feel very stable. Is it generating any money? There's a risk that you join KHL and the league dissolves. What do you do then? You can't go back to where you were. You have to start all over and you'll probably never come back to the top. The KHL is scary.

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12-06-2013, 05:12 AM
  #494
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Arena - I dont know all details of swedish hockey/sociaty, but I am sure that arena would be reconstructed. That is a condition of KHL. Even Hartwall Arena will be reconstructed. The problem would be, if arena in Stokholm was owned by city ....

KHL will share tv money, but not now. If I know, the model of revenue sharing will be different than NHL´s. In NHL the weakest clubs get more % of money pool. In KHL is another vision. If your club´s games are more often in tv, you will get more money. So, clubs would have to work to be attractive for media/tv. The same sponsorship money.

KHL knows about this request (sharing tv money) of euro clubs. And KHL will solve the problem, within a few years (that was said by KHL vicepresident Kochevrin).

Yes, KHL as league generates money. Clubs not because some of them dont care. On the other hand, SKA cares and is able to earn money and will earn more in future, especially when tv money are shared. Slovan is able to generate cca 5M euro from ticketing, whole budget is cca 10-11M euro.

Dont worry, KHL will not dissolve. The league has developped a lot within years. Maybe you know about KHL´s institute of developing, KHL´s medical department, KHL´s technology department etc. Tell me, what euro league has such backround? No one.

Man, Gazprom knows what is doing... so dont worry about KHL.

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12-06-2013, 06:52 AM
  #495
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What's weird about it? It's not a well hidden fact that Sweden has no interest in KHL.
While Sweden has showed no interest in the KHL, I still believe it's only a matter of time before a team goes in.

Can someone explain to my how the KHL controls the TV rights? If they negotiate TV rights, does that mean there is no local regional rights that individual clubs give?

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12-06-2013, 07:30 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
While Sweden has showed no interest in the KHL, I still believe it's only a matter of time before a team goes in.

Can someone explain to my how the KHL controls the TV rights? If they negotiate TV rights, does that mean there is no local regional rights that individual clubs give?
A matter of time? Which club do you think will join? KHL is only interested in clubs with a good arena and good infrastructure.

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12-06-2013, 07:32 AM
  #497
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http://www.dagbladet.no/2013/12/06/s...ckas/30694317/

Representatives from Vålerenga Hockey (Oslo) are going to Moscow next week for a second meeting with a Russian/Finnish investment group to continue talks about buying VIF and joining the KHL. This is the same group that bought Jokerit earlier.

The article states that if the club was to join the league they would play in the Spectrum Arena in downtown Oslo while waiting for a new arena to be build (this is part of the Oslo 2022 Olympic bid).

The fact that they already had prelimenary talks and are stil moving forward makes it sound like this is actually something that could happen.

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12-06-2013, 08:01 AM
  #498
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If VIF talks with Arena Events, then it is serious (not like Sakavickas)

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12-06-2013, 08:06 AM
  #499
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Originally Posted by thevreelander View Post
Can someone explain to my how the KHL controls the TV rights? If they negotiate TV rights, does that mean there is no local regional rights that individual clubs give?
You are right... no local regional rights that individual clubs give. KHL negotiates national (Rossiya 2 for example), international (lets say TSN, Eurosport Pacific-Asia), local (tv deal in Bashkiria for Ufa etc) rights. All money goes to KHL, no revenue sharing NOW. Why? Because it would be pointless to give this money to clubs.. corruption etc. And KHL needs money to develop itself (and VHL, MHL etc).

This mechanism will change later and there will be revenue sharing. Dont know when...

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12-06-2013, 08:18 AM
  #500
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Not own TV-rights for DIF. League owns TV rights, no club can negotiate them. KHL does not share tv money with clubs. Why? Because it would be pointless... now. KHL will share tv/sponsor money in future. When? When is fully developped.
I guess someone forgot to tell Harkimo/Rotenberg that: http://www.jokerit.com/uutiset/?nid=2665

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Yksi tulonlähde on myös TV-sopimus, jonka saamme itse tehdä. Myös siihen on ollut paljon kiinnostusta.
Translation: One source of income is a tv-contract, which we are allowed to do. There's been interest in that.

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