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Old
10-05-2013, 08:51 AM
  #251
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Our most dire need is a 2nd line center that can make what wingers we already have work for us.

Essentially, yes. Get that C, but then we have the issue of keeping the 3 together when contracts come up.

Back to the SJ team structure. Their best players are 4 Cs, one converted to wing. It gives them really good versatility. If one C isn't able to work with a certain set of wingers, easy to swap and go with another. VAN has the opposite issue. Wingers are looking for a C not named Sedin to work with and Kesler is difficult in this regard.

It's too bad Stastny isn't really a viable option here because he would fit this team well.

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10-05-2013, 10:21 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Opinions will vary on how good Burns will turn out to be, I guess. But is the scoring problem really limited to the 2nd line only? What about the 3rd/4th line?
Well by addressing the 2nd line we simultaneously move Higgins/Hansen to the 3rd line instead of having them playing spot duty throughout our top-6.

Higgins-Schroeder/Santorelli-Hansen seems like it would provide a solid amount of depth scoring.

With how Tortorella deploys his lines I don't think the 4th line matters much in terms of their offensive contribution.

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10-05-2013, 10:32 AM
  #253
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Grabovski and Callahan/Ott + an offersheet to pernell Karl.

My off season plan.

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10-05-2013, 11:54 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Brian Boyle seems to be mentioned in every single acquisition proposal on this board. Anybody ever think that maybe the Rangers aren't interested in trading him?

And not that a guy like him, or Goc, would really solve this team's problems, anyway. This team can't score!
That's a very simplistic view of the situation. Goc would do wonders for for this (apart from being a great even-strength producer in his own right). A Higgins - Goc - Hansen line could take difficult matchups, leaving the 1st and 2nd lines to focus more on offense.

Goc would be perfect due to salary and contract length, really hope Gillis does this. I would do Schroeder + a 2nd.

Our bottom 6 would look like

Higgins - Goc - Hansen
Richardson - Santorelli - Weise

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10-05-2013, 12:00 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
That's a very simplistic view of the situation. Goc would do wonders for for this (apart from being a great even-strength producer in his own right). A Higgins - Goc - Hansen line could take difficult matchups, leaving the 1st and 2nd lines to focus more on offense.

Goc would be perfect due to salary and contract length, really hope Gillis does this. I would do Schroeder + a 2nd.

Our bottom 6 would look like

Higgins - Goc - Hansen
Richardson - Santorelli - Weise
Goc would be a terrific addition. But at some point you have to stop moving 2nd rd picks if you want to build a successful team longterm.

With Horvat and Gaunce possibly ready to centre the 3rd line next season, I couldn't justofy moving another high pick for a veteran that might only be a stopgap solution. Especially when you consider there's also Schroeder, Santorelli, Richardson and Dalpe in the mix.

Schroeder straight up for Goc I would do, as it would Schroeder completely redundant.

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10-05-2013, 12:03 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
That's a very simplistic view of the situation. Goc would do wonders for for this (apart from being a great even-strength producer in his own right). A Higgins - Goc - Hansen line could take difficult matchups, leaving the 1st and 2nd lines to focus more on offense.

Goc would be perfect due to salary and contract length, really hope Gillis does this. I would do Schroeder + a 2nd.

Our bottom 6 would look like

Higgins - Goc - Hansen
Richardson - Santorelli - Weise
Schroeder and a 2nd for Goc? I wouldn't give up more than a 3rd for Goc. The going price for 3rd liners is no where near that much, and we have a whole group of young centres pushing for the 3C spot.

It's really bad asset management to sell low on Schroeder as well.

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10-05-2013, 12:23 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
That's a very simplistic view of the situation. Goc would do wonders for for this (apart from being a great even-strength producer in his own right). A Higgins - Goc - Hansen line could take difficult matchups, leaving the 1st and 2nd lines to focus more on offense.

Goc would be perfect due to salary and contract length, really hope Gillis does this. I would do Schroeder + a 2nd.

Our bottom 6 would look like

Higgins - Goc - Hansen
Richardson - Santorelli - Weise
Outrageous. That'd be a horrible trade.

Goc is a 30 year-old that's largely puttered around non-traditional hockey markets for his whole career, hardly accomplishing anything. His teams have never gotten beyond the second round of the playoffs, and he hasn't gotten out of the first round since 2007. If we acquired him, what would happen is that he'd do very, very little, and we'd hear a lot of excuses about "the difficulties of playing in Vancouver" from guys like Mike Gillis. We really, really do not need to be acquiring any more tweeners, especially tweeners from garbage hockey teams.

You could easily make the argument that Jordan Schroeder had a better year last year than Zack Kassian -- in fact, I think that's probably true. Yet, to a lot of folks on this site, Schroeder's a borderline NHLer while Kassian's 1st line material with immense potential. I guess those are the ancillary benefits that come with being 6'3", having a missing tooth, and crazy hair. People begin to see what they want to see, rather than reality.

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10-05-2013, 12:35 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Outrageous. That'd be a horrible trade.

Goc is a 30 year-old that's largely puttered around non-traditional hockey markets for his whole career, hardly accomplishing anything. His teams have never gotten beyond the second round of the playoffs, and he hasn't gotten out of the first round since 2007. If we acquired him, what would happen is that he'd do very, very little, and we'd hear a lot of excuses about "the difficulties of playing in Vancouver" from guys like Mike Gillis. We really, really do not need to be acquiring any more tweeners, especially tweeners from garbage hockey teams.

You could easily make the argument that Jordan Schroeder had a better year last year than Zack Kassian -- in fact, I think that's probably true. Yet, to a lot of folks on this site, Schroeder's a borderline NHLer while Kassian's 1st line material with immense potential. I guess those are the ancillary benefits that come with being 6'3", having a missing tooth, and crazy hair. People begin to see what they want to see, rather than reality.
Spoken like someone who has no idea what he's talking about. Here's a useful article you might find enlightening

http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...oc-underrated/

He's not a tweener, he's a perfect 3rd line C. Something this team desperately needs. The fact that he's only under contract to the end of this season is perfect, as he walks and Horvat comes in next season.

Far, far better use of a 2nd then Roy.

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Old
10-05-2013, 12:45 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Spoken like someone who has no idea what he's talking about. Here's a useful article you might find enlightening

http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...oc-underrated/

He's not a tweener, he's a perfect 3rd line C. Something this team desperately needs. The fact that he's only under contract to the end of this season is perfect, as he walks and Horvat comes in next season.

Far, far better use of a 2nd then Roy.
Couldn't agree more. I was really pushing for Goc last year, seems like a perfect Malhotra replacement. Though I'm not ready to give up Schroeder and a 2nd for him.

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10-05-2013, 12:49 PM
  #260
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With Burrows supposedly out for weeks. Gillis had better be looking on the market for some proven additions, not bargain bin acquisitions. We need to start having some reliable depth to fill in.

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10-05-2013, 12:49 PM
  #261
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So...since Burrows is going to be out for a bit, let's sign that Prospal guy for cheap.

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10-05-2013, 12:50 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Spoken like someone who has no idea what he's talking about. Here's a useful article you might find enlightening

http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...oc-underrated/

He's not a tweener, he's a perfect 3rd line C. Something this team desperately needs. The fact that he's only under contract to the end of this season is perfect, as he walks and Horvat comes in next season.

Far, far better use of a 2nd then Roy.
Great, somebody wrote an article about him being underrated 15 months ago.

And it's not just "a 2nd". You were also including Jordan Schroeder, remember? 1st round pick from '09? Showed some promise last year at the NHL level? Consistent growth at the AHL level?

It'd be a very dumb move for a guy that's not going to help with this team's real problem, which is a problem of offense. You've also acknowledged that it'd be a pure rental, which just adds to the lunacy of the transaction. Jordan Schroeder and a 2nd for a 3C from a pathetic hockey team? I mean, everybody talks about how elite Luongo is, how amazing our D is -- why does every F that we target have to be so defense-first?

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10-05-2013, 12:52 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
Couldn't agree more. I was really pushing for Goc last year, seems like a perfect Malhotra replacement. Though I'm not ready to give up Schroeder and a 2nd for him.
Yup, a Malhotra replacement who produces at even-strength much better than Malhotra, and has a 0.35 PPG in the playoffs.

Schroeder and a 2nd is the price I would pay, if we could get him for less great.

I have a strong feeling a team will give up a 1st at the deadline for him however, if Gillis were to put in a good offer early he might have a leg up on the competition.

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Old
10-05-2013, 12:54 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Great, somebody wrote an article about him being underrated 15 months ago.

And it's not just "a 2nd". You were also including Jordan Schroeder, remember? 1st round pick from '09? Showed some promise last year at the NHL level? Consistent growth at the AHL level?

It'd be a very dumb move for a guy that's not going to help with this team's real problem, which is a problem of offense. You've also acknowledged that it'd be a pure rental, which just adds to the lunacy of the transaction. Jordan Schroeder and a 2nd for a 3C from a pathetic hockey team? I mean, everybody talks about how elite Luongo is, how amazing our D is -- why does every F that we target have to be so defense-first?
Yeah, his game has really gone downhill in the last 15 months. Do you even know what you're saying/writing half the time?

Schroeder sucks, plain and simple. He has no future on this team - if we can get a tiny bit of value for him now is the time do it.

He is going to help the offense. He is a great even-strength producer and frees up the top 6 to concentrate on offense.

I'll repeat that, bold and enlargen as you seem to be struggling with some very basic reading and comprehension issues:

He is going to help the offense. He is a great even-strength producer and frees up the top 6 to concentrate on offense.

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10-05-2013, 12:55 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
That's a very simplistic view of the situation. Goc would do wonders for for this (apart from being a great even-strength producer in his own right). A Higgins - Goc - Hansen line could take difficult matchups, leaving the 1st and 2nd lines to focus more on offense.

Goc would be perfect due to salary and contract length, really hope Gillis does this. I would do Schroeder + a 2nd.

Our bottom 6 would look like

Higgins - Goc - Hansen
Richardson - Santorelli - Weise
Because it's a very simplistic problem. In the game of hockey the team that puts the puck into the other teams net more than the other team is deemed the winner of the game. We don't put the puck in the other teams net enough. We need to bring in players who are good at putting the puck in the other teams net.

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10-05-2013, 12:57 PM
  #266
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Because it's a very simplistic problem. In the game of hockey the team that puts the puck into the other teams net more than the other team is deemed the winner of the game. We don't put the puck in the other teams net enough. We need to bring in players who are good at putting the puck in the other teams net.
Really? Is that why the Sedins and Kesler generated more offense than any other time in their career when we went the elite defensive centre route? We had success with Malhotra, not with Roy.

Hmm...might just be something to think about.

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10-05-2013, 12:58 PM
  #267
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So...since Burrows is going to be out for a bit, let's sign that Prospal guy for cheap.
Yes please.

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10-05-2013, 01:03 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because it's a very simplistic problem. In the game of hockey the team that puts the puck into the other teams net more than the other team is deemed the winner of the game. We don't put the puck in the other teams net enough. We need to bring in players who are good at putting the puck in the other teams net.
What if they let the other team put the puck in their own net twice as often?

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10-05-2013, 01:07 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Really? Is that why the Sedins and Kesler generated more offense than any other time in their career when we went the elite defensive centre route? We had success with Malhotra, not with Roy.

Hmm...might just be something to think about.
Hmm, could it perhaps be because the Sedin's were 29/30 years old at the time, and not 32/33? Are they subject to the natural law of aging?

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10-05-2013, 01:10 PM
  #270
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Hmm, could it perhaps be because the Sedin's were 29/30 years old at the time, and not 32/33? Are they subject to the natural law of aging?
I don't think being a few years younger was remotely significant. The Sedins had a good even-strength season last year. It was Malhotra, the PP and Ehrhoff. With Goc we would try to get back two of those three.

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10-05-2013, 01:14 PM
  #271
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I don't think being a few years younger was remotely significant. The Sedins had a good even-strength season last year. It was Malhotra, the PP and Ehrhoff. With Goc we would try to get back two of those three.
What exactly did Manny Malhotra have to do with the Sedins' offensive breakout?

As for the PP -- how is that not their fault? They're the drivers of the PP. If it's unsuccessful, it's their fault. You're suggesting that Marcel Goc will solve that problem?

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10-05-2013, 01:15 PM
  #272
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Are Prospal and Hejduk done?

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10-05-2013, 01:16 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Really? Is that why the Sedins and Kesler generated more offense than any other time in their career when we went the elite defensive centre route? We had success with Malhotra, not with Roy.

Hmm...might just be something to think about.
yeah, I'm sure that had nothing to do with Samuelsson and Ehrhoff.

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10-05-2013, 01:16 PM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Really? Is that why the Sedins and Kesler generated more offense than any other time in their career when we went the elite defensive centre route? We had success with Malhotra, not with Roy.

Hmm...might just be something to think about.
Could also be due to Kesler being healthy, and the Sedins having Christian Ehrhoff leading rushes. Or maybe it's because we had Victor Oreskovich on the 4th line and his presence led to everyone else having success too.

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10-05-2013, 01:16 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
What exactly did Manny Malhotra have to do with the Sedins' offensive breakout?

As for the PP -- how is that not their fault? They're the drivers of the PP. If it's unsuccessful, it's their fault. You're suggesting that Marcel Goc will solve that problem?
I can't really simplify this any more for you. Malhotra matches up against other teams' top lines and shuts them down.

The Sedins and Kesler in turn get to play against 2nd and 3rd lines and feast on them, as they are good players.

This results in the Sedins and Kesler's line scoring at a higher rate. I'm not going to comment on the retardedness that is the PP question.

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