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Old
10-15-2013, 02:10 AM
  #901
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Did you not hear the guy? Chewed bubble gum.
My god. He wants AV back!

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10-15-2013, 02:29 AM
  #902
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Stastny is one of the best targets I've heard mentioned here. The issue is what would have to be given up? A 1st and a prospect would be standard for an eastern buyer, but a western buyer would have to pay a premium.

The other thing is what is COL looking to do? Compete sooner rather than later? If so, do they want roster players instead of picks? If so, any team would have to dig into their rosters to add him. They've been sitting on Stastny for a while. It's going to take a lot to pry him loose.
I don't think I'd be at all interested at that price, he's a UFA and will probably chase the money. If we are moving prospects and firsts then Vanek would be a better rental. That said I'm not sure this team is a rental away from contending, I'd just rather save the assets and try the UFA market. Picking him up in July would be better.

Players with years on their deals are a different matter.

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10-15-2013, 02:39 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
I don't think I'd be at all interested at that price, he's a UFA and will probably chase the money. If we are moving prospects and firsts then Vanek would be a better rental. That said I'm not sure this team is a rental away from contending, I'd just rather save the assets and try the UFA market. Picking him up in July would be better.

Players with years on their deals are a different matter.
On the whole, I agree with you. I'm not on board with rentals, and I have little faith FAs going into this coming market will sign early. A 70 mil cap creates a lot of opportunity. Best to make a pitch in FA.

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10-15-2013, 02:42 AM
  #904
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We are in a mini-rebuild right now. Might as well speed it up by getting rid of 5mil against the cap and a player who's largely been a ghost for the past two years for some decent pieces.

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10-15-2013, 02:47 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Stastny is one of the best targets I've heard mentioned here. The issue is what would have to be given up? A 1st and a prospect would be standard for an eastern buyer, but a western buyer would have to pay a premium.

The other thing is what is COL looking to do? Compete sooner rather than later? If so, do they want roster players instead of picks? If so, any team would have to dig into their rosters to add him. They've been sitting on Stastny for a while. It's going to take a lot to pry him loose.
We might not have to give up anything as he'll be a FA.

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10-15-2013, 02:52 AM
  #906
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As far as the Paul Stastny thing goes, for me, he's still right at the top of my list of potential targets. Whether that's as a Deadline Acquisition (ideally with some sort of understanding in terms of an extension), or a Free Agent in the summer, i'd be very pleased either way.

Just looking at the potential for next year:

Quote:
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.800m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.800m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Hunter Shinkaruk ($1.138m) / Paul Stastny ($6.000m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Bo Horvat ($1.775m) / Jannik Hansen ($2.500m)
Mike Santorelli ($1.000m) / Brad Richardson ($1.150m) / Zack Kassian ($1.000m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Ryan Stanton ($0.550m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.925m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,020,278; BONUSES: $1,070,833
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): -$1,649,444
Add in a cheap depth D-man and a cheap depth F and it's not unreasonable under a cap that should be rising. Ballpark figures, Sedins guesstimated, Stastny as well, and projected as a Kassian continuing to do very little of anything.

Would still have Jensen and Gaunce next year as viable call-ups as forwards or potential replacements if Shinkaruk or Horvat still aren't ready.

And Tanev as a potential trade chip. Or you re-sign him and run 3 balanced pairings on the back end, with Stanton being the #7.

Unlikely that Stastny would sign here as a FA i'd think...but who knows. Pipe dream scenario.

Would give us to bonafide scoring lines, with that 2nd group potentially being as good as the 1st line on a number of teams. A great 2-way gritty 3rd line. A 4th line that could actually score and contribute.

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Old
10-15-2013, 04:18 AM
  #907
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Am I the only one here that believes that Centre depth is the way you win in this league? No matter what the new fad? (Toughness, skill etc..).

Your centres make your wingers work, not the other way around. Why can't Kesler be moved into a third line role like Pavelski is in San Jose (but still plays a primary defensive/offensive role).

Instead of trying to find a top six winger, why don't we go find another top 6 centre and play a 2A-2B system? Obviously cap issues arise, but having money ball wingers is kind of counter effective if you don't have high quality centres to bring out the best in them.

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10-15-2013, 04:49 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by NeoCanuck View Post
Am I the only one here that believes that Centre depth is the way you win in this league?
No. I pretty much consider this a truth in this league. Teams with strong center depth usually win.

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Old
10-15-2013, 04:56 AM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
No. I pretty much consider this a truth in this league. Teams with strong center depth usually win.
Then why are we consistently trying to get top six wingers (as is the mentality with Canucks fans on this board). I look at teams like Boston, LA, SJ etc..that have adopted this mentality and it works. It has nothing to do with "toughness" or "skill" alone, you just have three centres that are top 6 worthy and surround them with top 6/money ball wingers.

I also hate the term "two-way". I feel like every player on this roster outside the Sedins are deemed "two-way". I would have loved to grab Tanguay with Kesler if we were going to make a move this off-season.

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Old
10-15-2013, 05:37 AM
  #910
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Originally Posted by NeoCanuck View Post
Am I the only one here that believes that Centre depth is the way you win in this league? No matter what the new fad? (Toughness, skill etc..).

Your centres make your wingers work, not the other way around. Why can't Kesler be moved into a third line role like Pavelski is in San Jose (but still plays a primary defensive/offensive role).

Instead of trying to find a top six winger, why don't we go find another top 6 centre and play a 2A-2B system? Obviously cap issues arise, but having money ball wingers is kind of counter effective if you don't have high quality centres to bring out the best in them.
Because Kesler is a better player than Pavelski and I would prefer to utilize his offensive prowess verse burying it in a defensive role. There are plenty of alternatives in your Kellys, Gocs and etc. San Jose is the present flavor of the month. People seem to neglect their playoff resume is not exactly stellar.

Furthermore, acquiring say, Stastny, limits Horvat's progression unless we force Kesler to the wing. I am perfectly content seeing what we have in Schroeder and making a move based on that if need be.

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Old
10-15-2013, 05:55 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by NeoCanuck View Post
Then why are we consistently trying to get top six wingers (as is the mentality with Canucks fans on this board). I look at teams like Boston, LA, SJ etc..that have adopted this mentality and it works. It has nothing to do with "toughness" or "skill" alone, you just have three centres that are top 6 worthy and surround them with top 6/money ball wingers.

I also hate the term "two-way". I feel like every player on this roster outside the Sedins are deemed "two-way". I would have loved to grab Tanguay with Kesler if we were going to make a move this off-season.
Chicago.

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Old
10-15-2013, 06:48 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Because Kesler is a better player than Pavelski and I would prefer to utilize his offensive prowess verse burying it in a defensive role. There are plenty of alternatives in your Kellys, Gocs and etc. San Jose is the present flavor of the month. People seem to neglect their playoff resume is not exactly stellar.

Furthermore, acquiring say, Stastny, limits Horvat's progression unless we force Kesler to the wing. I am perfectly content seeing what we have in Schroeder and making a move based on that if need be.
Horvat is 18. Nothing will limit his progression beyond the norm for the next 3 years or so. Plenty of time to bring him along slower.

Are you saying Pavelski's offensive prowess isn't being utilized? He still produces at a good clip no matter where he plays. Kesler's linemates could still be Higgins and Hansen on the 3rd line. His ice time still around the 20 min mark. All comes down to how he is used. Just like Pavelski.

If this team wanted C redundancy bad enough to deal CS for Horvat, or look for hoper Cs like Dalpe to see if they can turn him around, then one would think they value that position highly. What better way to ensure quality depth than to target another good C in Stastny? He may never come here, but the idea of that 1-2-3 punch, with matured players, is very enticing. It would solve a lot of problems in the here and now.

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10-15-2013, 09:08 AM
  #913
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We always could nail Yakupov... they need G and D, we need scoring.

Bieksa + Lu + Kassian

for Nail

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10-15-2013, 09:14 AM
  #914
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We always could nail Yakupov... they need G and D, we need scoring.

Bieksa + Lu + Kassian

for Nail
Except that would leave us with no goalie. Some may be ok with going without a goalie but I'm still scarred by the Cloutier/Essensa/Snow/Burke/later-McLean years that I want nothing to do with that again.

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:28 AM
  #915
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We could always hope and pray they send Dubnyk back

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:32 AM
  #916
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Except that would leave us with no goalie. Some may be ok with going without a goalie but I'm still scarred by the Cloutier/Essensa/Snow/Burke/later-McLean years that I want nothing to do with that again.
I added the sarcasm emoticons but, as far as I could see, they are useless.


No matter what, someone will tell you that Lack is our saviour. Heck, he can't do worse than Dubnyk. Oh, may I add that Mr. Universe himself, the fantastic Bryzgalov, is avaliable for a special 1 year tryout? Look at this lineup.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Yakupov
Booth - Santorelli - Hansen
Weise - Dalpe - Richardson

Edler - Garrison
Hamhuis - Tanev
Stanton - Nick Schultz (the guy must be added for cap purposes)

Bryzgalov
Lack


Last edited by MadaCanuckle: 10-15-2013 at 09:37 AM. Reason: May I enjoy this lunatic scenario?
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Old
10-15-2013, 02:08 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Horvat is 18. Nothing will limit his progression beyond the norm for the next 3 years or so. Plenty of time to bring him along slower.

Are you saying Pavelski's offensive prowess isn't being utilized? He still produces at a good clip no matter where he plays. Kesler's linemates could still be Higgins and Hansen on the 3rd line. His ice time still around the 20 min mark. All comes down to how he is used. Just like Pavelski.

If this team wanted C redundancy bad enough to deal CS for Horvat, or look for hoper Cs like Dalpe to see if they can turn him around, then one would think they value that position highly. What better way to ensure quality depth than to target another good C in Stastny? He may never come here, but the idea of that 1-2-3 punch, with matured players, is very enticing. It would solve a lot of problems in the here and now.
One hopes Horvat makes the team before three years time. And I imagine Stastny is not seeking a short term situation. Therefore, it will be a hindrance eventually.

Not to full capacity, no. Pavelski occasionally plays shotgun in the top six, but otherwise his regulation to the third line does limit his overall use. Regardless, Kesler is simply a better player than Pavelski and reducing his role on the team will have an effect, not one I necessarily believe Stastny will fill. I suppose the option remains Stastny shifts to the third line or Kesler to wing, but I doubt either has much interest.

Depth and redundancy are quite different. Horvat remains in development and Dalpe is little more than plug who barely sees use. Stastny would be the equivalent to an embarrassment of riches, but not in the position we need. Scoring has been to detriment in the playoffs and while Stastny certainly scores. It's less of his forte.

In the end, it boils down to preference. I certainly wouldn't be disappointed with Stastny, however I prefer a legitimate goal scoring winger. My primary concern in chasing him though is cost. He is likely to have a bidder war for his services and I cannot say if we'd win it.

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10-15-2013, 02:50 PM
  #918
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Again, Stastny, Kesler and Horvat can all play wing. If we acquired Stastny it would ideally be for him to play with Kesler, which wouldn't impact Horvats ability to win the #3C role.

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10-15-2013, 03:01 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by MadaCanuckle View Post
We always could nail Yakupov... they need G and D, we need scoring.

Bieksa + Lu + Kassian

for Nail
I seriously doubt the Oilers and Canucks would be trading partners for even a minor deal given the Division rivlary. But Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Oilers goaltending struggle-ling. Canucks number one starter, Bobby Lu allegedly unhappy with remaining a Canucks.

Now Bobby Lu's first choice is to go back to Florida, but that's kind of hard to accommodate when neither team has an opening or seemingly the inclination to take on his contract.

So, what about trading Bobby Lu to geographically the farthest place away from Florida?

We all know Bobby Lu has an NTC, but maybe the Oilers can get one of their Legend's, Grant Fhur (who was an idol of Bobby Lu) to give him a phone call and tell him how great playing in Edmonton was for him ... kinda like how the Oilers recruited Justin Shultz with phone calls from Gretzky and Coffey to "convince" him to go there instead of the Canucks.

My proposal:

Dubnyk + future considerations (conditional picks depending on team's performance) for Bobby Lu + future considerations (conditional picks depending on team's performance)

i.e. If the Oilers make the Playoffs, no pick given but if they miss it the Canucks owe them a second round pick and vice versa if one team makes it and the other doesn't

If one team or the other makes it to the Stanley Cup Finals, then you owe a first round pick.

If both miss it, then no picks exchange, if the Oilers decide to compliance buy-out Bobby Lu, then the Canucks owe them a future 1st round pick in the next four years, etc ...

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10-15-2013, 03:43 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by Betamax View Post
I seriously doubt the Oilers and Canucks would be trading partners for even a minor deal given the Division rivlary. But Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Oilers goaltending struggle-ling. Canucks number one starter, Bobby Lu allegedly unhappy with remaining a Canucks.

Now Bobby Lu's first choice is to go back to Florida, but that's kind of hard to accommodate when neither team has an opening or seemingly the inclination to take on his contract.

So, what about trading Bobby Lu to geographically the farthest place away from Florida?

We all know Bobby Lu has an NTC, but maybe the Oilers can get one of their Legend's, Grant Fhur (who was an idol of Bobby Lu) to give him a phone call and tell him how great playing in Edmonton was for him ... kinda like how the Oilers recruited Justin Shultz with phone calls from Gretzky and Coffey to "convince" him to go there instead of the Canucks.

My proposal:

Dubnyk + future considerations (conditional picks depending on team's performance) for Bobby Lu + future considerations (conditional picks depending on team's performance)

i.e. If the Oilers make the Playoffs, no pick given but if they miss it the Canucks owe them a second round pick and vice versa if one team makes it and the other doesn't

If one team or the other makes it to the Stanley Cup Finals, then you owe a first round pick.

If both miss it, then no picks exchange, if the Oilers decide to compliance buy-out Bobby Lu, then the Canucks owe them a future 1st round pick in the next four years, etc ...
Why on earth would the Canucks do this?

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10-15-2013, 03:46 PM
  #921
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Why on earth would the Canucks do this?
To make the pretend to be canucks fans happy.

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10-15-2013, 03:51 PM
  #922
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Why on earth would the Canucks do this?
To get rid of the "contract." Do you think if they were to put him on waivers right now there would be any claims on him?

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10-15-2013, 03:54 PM
  #923
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Again, Stastny, Kesler and Horvat can all play wing. If we acquired Stastny it would ideally be for him to play with Kesler, which wouldn't impact Horvats ability to win the #3C role.
GMMG, LG and company pull off some kind of unthinkable wizardry at the trade deadline and go into the playoffs with a lineup of:

Daniel - Henrik - Ryder/Cammalleri
Burrows - Kesler - Stastny
Booth - Santorelli - Kassian
Higgins - Goc - Hansen
Richardson
Weise
Dalpe
Sestito
Jensen?
Horvat?
Shinkaruk?


Edler / Garrison
Hamhuis / Bieksa
Tanev / Corrado
Stanton
Alberts

Luongo

I don't know how it would ever fit under the cap, and what assets would go in order to make room for those additions in the top-six. Praise be to Lawrence Gilman.

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10-15-2013, 03:56 PM
  #924
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Again, Stastny, Kesler and Horvat can all play wing. If we acquired Stastny it would ideally be for him to play with Kesler, which wouldn't impact Horvats ability to win the #3C role.
I'm not really sold on Stastny's ability to play wing, but regardless, i agree completely. The other two are very capable of playing wing.

And the reality is, good teams don't tend to leave gaping holes in their center depth to 'make room' for a rookie that they hope can fill the role. They have good players and good prospects who force their way onto the team. And there would still be plenty of room for a player like Horvat to force his way onto the team with solid play.

A Stastny-Kesler 2nd line is the sort of duo where you can let an inexperienced youngster ride shotgun (a la Saad in Chicago for example). Shinkaruk would seem the obvious candidate, but maybe Horvat even plays LW on the 2nd line alongside those two. Or he grabs a #3C role and runs with it.

If anything, i think that having 3 quality top-6 centers would help the youngsters in forcing their way onto the team, as they'd have the proper insulation to succeed, rather than being thrown straight into the fire as the only options and expected to carry a heavy load.


Quality center depth is just so important in the league today, and it affords a team so much more flexibility and resiliency if/when injuries/slumps happen. And really, just a ton of different looks that you can throw at an opponent.

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10-15-2013, 04:09 PM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Betamax View Post
To get rid of the "contract." Do you think if they were to put him on waivers right now there would be any claims on him?
I think if they'd put him on waivers last summer 2-3 teams would have claimed him for sure. Gillis just didn't want to give him away.

Why would the Oilers make that trade, essentially giving away a young player whose contract is expiring, just in order to acquire Luongo? If they'd make that trade, it stands to reason they'd claim Luongo on waivers.

Even if you think he'd go unclaimed, once the Schneider trade was made, the Canucks made their decision. There seems to be no real point in going back on that decision after six games. If they did, and Dubnyk returned to previous seasons' form, the Canucks would still likely be giving up 4-5 wins in the standings this year at minimum -- that doesn't seem wise to me.

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