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Old
10-03-2013, 07:49 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
They would never hit their bonuses so what does it matter?
From what I understand, when its all said and done, they would cost a lot more then a guy like Dalpe.

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10-03-2013, 10:21 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
From what I understand, when its all said and done, they would cost a lot more then a guy like Dalpe.
Not really because to acquire Dalpe they had to also take on Walsh who was on a one-way deal @ 1M whom they sent down to the minors ... so add Delpe's 550K and the 1M ... it's essentially the same even if one of the kids stayed here for the season and hit most of their bonuses.

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10-03-2013, 11:35 PM
  #128
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Oh God, watching this team is making me depressed. Quickly, someone give me a decent lineup, even if it's unrealistic, and in the realm of insanity.

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Old
10-03-2013, 11:52 PM
  #129
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It's not just based on this game, but the Canucks declined since 2011. I think the reason the Canucks are not signing the Sedins yet is because they want to see where they are at the trade deadline. Re-signing the twins means the Canucks are going with the same core and trying to win. But if they trade them, they'd get back some good assets.

If they are in the middle of the pack, they may even trade the Sedins to start a quick build.

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10-04-2013, 12:00 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
It's not just based on this game, but the Canucks declined since 2011. I think the reason the Canucks are not signing the Sedins yet is because they want to see where they are at the trade deadline. Re-signing the twins means the Canucks are going with the same core and trying to win. But if they trade them, they'd get back some good assets.

If they are in the middle of the pack, they may even trade the Sedins to start a quick build.

It's a double edged sword, you could end up losing them for nothing if they refuse to waive their NTCs before the deadline, a la Sundin, and that would be the absolutely #1 of all time worst waste of assets in Canuck history. If we are middle of the pack and trade them, we should expect a very premium package. However, an on the fly rebuild is going to be really rough with the remaining assets we have.

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10-04-2013, 12:04 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
It's a double edged sword, you could end up losing them for nothing if they refuse to waive their NTCs before the deadline, a la Sundin, and that would be the absolutely #1 of all time worst waste of assets in Canuck history. If we are middle of the pack and trade them, we should expect a very premium package. However, an on the fly rebuild is going to be really rough with the remaining assets we have.
I think the Canucks should really consider a full rebuild if we are just barely squeaking in the playoffs come trade deadline.

The last thing the Canucks want is a Flames model.

The Sedins never come across as selfish players. They will provide the Canucks with options, like Iginla. It might not be the best package, but expect at least a couple 1st round picks and top prospects coming back. I am sure they'd love to go to Detroit (who is not in the East)

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Old
10-04-2013, 02:22 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
I think the Canucks should really consider a full rebuild if we are just barely squeaking in the playoffs come trade deadline.

The last thing the Canucks want is a Flames model.

The Sedins never come across as selfish players. They will provide the Canucks with options, like Iginla. It might not be the best package, but expect at least a couple 1st round picks and top prospects coming back. I am sure they'd love to go to Detroit (who is not in the East)
I wouldn't really mind but the Sedin's are our leaders and top line. We can't replace them and leave this team a mess for Shinkaurk and Horvat etc. It is pretty much final they are staying here and retiring Canucks.

Steps we need to take:

I would give Gillis till the end of the year to see what he can do because I like this guys drafting and signings, trading not so much. His trades are not the best. He also acquires weak players in the bottom six but we shall see how they turn out this year. If we are to fire him I would keep him till after the draft.

What else we need to do is release some players. Higgins I don't know if that was such a smart move but he would be good on the 3LW as youth moves in.

Shinkaruk
Horvat
Jensen
Guance
Cassels
Subban
Tommernes
Andersson
Ericksson

Cassels will be a good 3C. Shinkaruk and Horvat will be our 2nd line with the Sedins playing. Jensen with the Sedins. Kesler and Burrows can play on the 3rd. Subban should be looking good in a good 1-2 years.

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Old
10-04-2013, 02:56 AM
  #133
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Any Canucks rebuild should include a new GM. Canucks face a lot of issues, most are related to Gillis.

Some issues face everybody. The Sedins are old. I do not believe they can lead the offense going forward. If they are signed as secondary players and given second line minutes, then whatever. I don't recall many guys retiring as Canucks. I think they should be allowed to walk, like Mitchell, Salo and Ohlund.

A rebuild can be viewed as a fresh slate. Would anyone choose a thirty five year old starter? Seriously, anyone? Luongo must go. It is a stunning indictment of this management that he is here at all. This shows a complete lack of understanding of professional sports. It's a bad idea, just like his contract was a bad bad idea. Mistakes compound, they do not cancel each other. It is a bedrock issue, you cannot hang your fortunes on somebody that doesn't want to be a part of it. FFS!

Canucks are ideally set up, in the sense that the Sedins can simply go and Luongo can be bought out under the compliance clause. They just need a guy with the jam to do it.

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Old
10-04-2013, 04:08 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Canucks are ideally set up, in the sense that the Sedins can simply go and Luongo can be bought out under the compliance clause. They just need a guy with the jam to do it.
Or a gun to the head of Aquilini. Luongo won't be bought out.

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Old
10-04-2013, 05:15 AM
  #135
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Kesler
Edler
Bieksa
Burrows should all be trade bait if we have a terrible season.

Please, please, please start rebuilding. Great players but I prefer what they can fetch over there current value on a losing team.

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Old
10-04-2013, 05:31 AM
  #136
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Let's assume we actually did entertain the idea of trading the Sedins. Which teams can fit 12M in cap space for two UFAs and be willing to offer a decent package?

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10-04-2013, 05:35 AM
  #137
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I'm sick of the stupid Flames comparison. Even if we don't trade away a bunch of vets and rebuild, are we really that much behind where they've already tanked so hard to get to?

Kassian, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Corrado, Schroeder and Gaunce vs Baertschi, Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Jankowski

I'm not saying our guys are just as good as the Flames, but they've missed the playoffs 5 years in a row while we've been racking up division championships. The situations are not and never have been comparable.

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10-04-2013, 06:00 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I'm sick of the stupid Flames comparison. Even if we don't trade away a bunch of vets and rebuild, are we really that much behind where they've already tanked so hard to get to?

Kassian, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Corrado, Schroeder and Gaunce vs Baertschi, Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Jankowski

I'm not saying our guys are just as good as the Flames, but they've missed the playoffs 5 years in a row while we've been racking up division championships. The situations are not and never have been comparable.
Comparing the Canucks to a best case scenario average bunch of Flames prospects isn't exactly encouraging.

I think the comparison to the Flames is having a regressing team, and letting your best talent and trade bait reach the point where they aren't worth much. And then deciding to rebuild.

The Canucks bucked that trend when the traded Schneider for Horvat. But that was likely a move made simply because they needed to trade a goalie and needed to cut about $5M from the cap. It wasn't really a hockey trade made with an eye to the future.

I think the Canucks will see where this year takes them.

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Old
10-04-2013, 07:08 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I'm sick of the stupid Flames comparison. Even if we don't trade away a bunch of vets and rebuild, are we really that much behind where they've already tanked so hard to get to?

Kassian, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Corrado, Schroeder and Gaunce vs Baertschi, Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk, Wotherspoon, Gaudreau and Jankowski

I'm not saying our guys are just as good as the Flames, but they've missed the playoffs 5 years in a row while we've been racking up division championships. The situations are not and never have been comparable.
But neither team has won a Cup... so blow it all up.

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Old
10-04-2013, 08:28 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Let's assume we actually did entertain the idea of trading the Sedins. Which teams can fit 12M in cap space for two UFAs and be willing to offer a decent package?
We can hold half of their salary. It would just be for the remainder of this season...

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Old
10-04-2013, 09:42 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
We can hold half of their salary. It would just be for the remainder of this season...
Forgot about that. The Canucks would have to go out of the gate like 2 and 10 for that to even be of discussion though.

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Old
10-04-2013, 09:59 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
We can hold half of their salary. It would just be for the remainder of this season...
If I didn't know any better I would say you've given this some thought.

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10-04-2013, 10:22 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Is it not time to do more than 'reset' the roster? One would think the last two play-off results would have been enough to move the team in a re-build direction. Could someone point out just how this current roster has a decent chance to win a Cup?
We have a quality D core. It isn't that cheap. So our lineup up front will have to suffer a bit.

Chill TF out.

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Old
10-04-2013, 10:24 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
I think the Canucks should really consider a full rebuild if we are just barely squeaking in the playoffs come trade deadline.

The last thing the Canucks want is a Flames model.

The Sedins never come across as selfish players. They will provide the Canucks with options, like Iginla. It might not be the best package, but expect at least a couple 1st round picks and top prospects coming back. I am sure they'd love to go to Detroit (who is not in the East)
The difference between us and the Flames is we actually have good players and have had good success. The flames were never top level teams like we've been.

San Jose is a tough matchup, I'll reserve my judgement on re-building after 10-20 games.

edit* guess I should have read further, I like Stringer Bell's comments too.

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Old
10-04-2013, 10:31 AM
  #145
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If Buffalo's out of it and we're still in, I think Vanek is our "must get" pick up...if we can resign him. An offensive catalyst for the Kesler line, who can shoot but also set up Kesler.

He or Tanguay.

If not, Prospal. Playmaker, but not a top 6 guy anymore IMO.

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Old
10-04-2013, 10:34 AM
  #146
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Something around Jensen + 1st for Vanek would be good, I think.

Our offense is really pitiful outside of our 1st PP unit.

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Old
10-04-2013, 10:43 AM
  #147
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The production of the 2nd line will come down to an option stabilizing the right side. Either Hansen is stapled there full time, Kassian takes a step, Dalpe is moved there, or another prospect is tried. Still want the team to look at acquiring LeBlanc. Point being, the solution is unlikely to be coming in the form of an established 2nd line RW, they will have to grow it.

Not reading too much into the last game. Depth could be an issue, but plenty of teams are looking for internal growth. SJ had already gotten this with Couture, largely. VAN just needs a young player to step up.

Edit: Was not a fan of picking up Vanek before, and now with his urge to go to MIN and with Pomminville signing there, no interested at all now. He's headed to FA. Cammalleri might work but difficult to trade with CGY. Just got to hope some prospect steps up, or take a dump salary like Gionta or Heatley at half salary.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 10-04-2013 at 10:48 AM.
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Old
10-04-2013, 10:50 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Something around Jensen + 1st for Vanek would be good, I think.

Our offense is really pitiful outside of our 1st PP unit.
i would do that.MG needs to wake up and realize,that bringing back the same core year after year is not working anymore.We lack scoring from the second line down and his answer to that is bringing in 3rd and 4th liners.This team has 10 players with NTC so moving any of them will not happen.So moving prospects,and picks is the only way we would get any sort of offencive help.

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Old
10-04-2013, 10:50 AM
  #149
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I think it's unrealistic to expect us to be able to acquire all our impact forwards via drafting + development. At some point we have to be willing to supplement our core with someone else who is a guaranteed impact player, just like every other contender has done.

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10-04-2013, 11:01 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Betamax View Post
Not really because to acquire Dalpe they had to also take on Walsh who was on a one-way deal @ 1M whom they sent down to the minors ... so add Delpe's 550K and the 1M ... it's essentially the same even if one of the kids stayed here for the season and hit most of their bonuses.
Really ?



Players are a scarce commodity though... Look at Edmonton. They cant find a decent veteran forward like Burrows, Higgins or Hansen to save their life yet we are loaded with them.

That is the issue. NHL talent is scarce as it gets. Its not easy being a GM.

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