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Leafs sign Kessel to 8-year extension at $8M per

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Old
09-26-2013, 10:03 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
I disagree that having a number 1 center is overated. Please name a Stanley cup champ that hasn't had 1. Yes I agree u do need a great team to win but a number 1 C is a must just like a top notch dman and great Goaltending.

I'm a Tampa bay fan and heard from leaf nation about how bad Lecavaliers contract was. he had won a Stanley cup and won the rocket Richard trophy the year before he signed it. Kessel isn't even close to what he had accomplished at 25. It's too bad Matt Cooke injured him as he's never been the same skater.

I use this point cause the same guys that crapped on Lecavaliers contract are saying kessel Deserves a Big long term deal.
There are risks with every contract, it's unavoidable. Lecavaliers contract wasn't necessarily bad when it was signed, but because of unfortunate circumstances it became bad. That's a risk you take with ANY long-term contract, no matter how good the player is.

If you want to use that point to say that you should never give out long-term contracts then fine, it's a valid point. I wouldn't agree because the rewards outweigh the risks, but I understand where you are coming from. The point has nothing to do with Kessel specifically though.

And as for the #1 center, sure most cup winners have had one. If you can get a lot of the impact you need from one player, that of course goes a long way to getting you as good as you need to be. But you don't just get #1 centers. They are not available.

Now as a counter-argument, look at the Devils from two seasons ago. Their center depth was not particularly good, and they came a couple of games away from winning the whole thing. Why? Because they made up for it in other places.

To win Stanley Cup, you have to play the odds either way. There are no sure things, you have to have things go your way.

You get good offense, defense, PK, PP, faceoffs, physicality and goaltending to improve your chances. Now if a team is a top offensive team while still giving up not much goals against, have one of the best special teams in the league, can get good possession via faceoffs, play a wearing down physical style and get great goaltending to boot, they are a favorite to win even if they had Johnny Malkin as their #1C.

Not saying Toronto is or necessarily will be a cup favorite with Bozak as their first line center, just saying that the fixation on individual players and positions are very much overblown.

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09-26-2013, 11:02 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
I disagree that having a number 1 center is overated. Please name a Stanley cup champ that hasn't had 1. Yes I agree u do need a great team to win but a number 1 C is a must just like a top notch dman and great Goaltending.

I'm a Tampa bay fan and heard from leaf nation about how bad Lecavaliers contract was. he had won a Stanley cup and won the rocket Richard trophy the year before he signed it. Kessel isn't even close to what he had accomplished at 25. It's too bad Matt Cooke injured him as he's never been the same skater.

I use this point cause the same guys that crapped on Lecavaliers contract are saying kessel Deserves a Big long term deal.
Lecavalier's contract was not bad when he signed it, it was bad 5 years later and would have been bad until he was 41. Obviously Tampa Bay agreed with everyone saying it was bad considering they eventually bought him out. You said it yourself, "he's never been the same skater", any time your play deteriorates while signed to a fair contract, the contract becomes worse and worse.

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09-26-2013, 11:06 AM
  #128
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No doubt Kessel gets UFA offers of 8 mill+ from some teams.

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09-26-2013, 11:37 AM
  #129
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I dont even bother with arguing with Kessel haters anymore because it's so hilariously clear they ignore reality to make up their own versions of "facts" that they play along with inside their demented little heads. Leaf fans are all happy with him, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. When the LEAF fanbase of all groups come to a consensus on a player, and that consensus is that Kessel is worth every penny of an 8x8 contract, it really tells you something--that he probably is worth that.

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09-26-2013, 11:40 AM
  #130
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I think Kessel is great in that he is an offensive catalyst of the highest order, which is rare in wingers.

64 million seems like a lot of money, but I have trouble keeping up with inflation.

I don't think the Leafs can let him go and remain competitive.

Kadri is still untested, Lupul is injury prone and Bozak relies on Kessel.

He's their elite offensive force and you can't give a guy like that up because there aren't that many around.

If a magical #1 center appeared with Kessel's offensive abilities, is he the better option? Maybe, but it's pointless to speculate because these guys are not available on the market very often.

We'll see how Kadri develops.

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09-26-2013, 11:45 AM
  #131
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That extra 8th year that Leafs can offer will ultimately prove to be the biggest difference. Kessel has said on numerous occasions that he likes the city, the team, the fans. To me, only a matter of time before he signs it.

Apart from Bozak, Nonis has done a very good job signing his own guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OttawaSenators11 View Post
I was hoping you guys would focus on Dion first
Kessel is more valuable to the team than Dion.

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09-26-2013, 12:12 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by VoicexOfxReason View Post
I dont even bother with arguing with Kessel haters anymore because it's so hilariously clear they ignore reality to make up their own versions of "facts" that they play along with inside their demented little heads. Leaf fans are all happy with him, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. When the LEAF fanbase of all groups come to a consensus on a player, and that consensus is that Kessel is worth every penny of an 8x8 contract, it really tells you something--that he probably is worth that.
Please enlighten me on how my assesment of Phil kessel as a player is wrong? Do u think Kessel should be paid more than a Patrick Kane or Jonathon Toews? If so please explain why.

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09-26-2013, 12:40 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
Please enlighten me on how my assesment of Phil kessel as a player is wrong? Do u think Kessel should be paid more than a Patrick Kane or Jonathon Toews? If so please explain why.
Pretty simple. UFAs get paid a lot more than RFAs.

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09-26-2013, 01:20 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
I disagree that having a number 1 center is overated. Please name a Stanley cup champ that hasn't had 1. Yes I agree u do need a great team to win but a number 1 C is a must just like a top notch dman and great Goaltending.

I'm a Tampa bay fan and heard from leaf nation about how bad Lecavaliers contract was. he had won a Stanley cup and won the rocket Richard trophy the year before he signed it. Kessel isn't even close to what he had accomplished at 25. It's too bad Matt Cooke injured him as he's never been the same skater.

I use this point cause the same guys that crapped on Lecavaliers contract are saying kessel Deserves a Big long term deal.
Anaheim's #1 center was Andy McDonald when they won the cup.

And don't compare Kessel's contract-to-be to Lecavalier's with Tampa. The league altered its rules partly because of joke contracts like the one he had. There isn't many contracts you could compare to that atrocity and the ones you can were signed pre-lockout.

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09-26-2013, 01:39 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
Please enlighten me on how my assesment of Phil kessel as a player is wrong? Do u think Kessel should be paid more than a Patrick Kane or Jonathon Toews? If so please explain why.
For the same reason Jagr is being paid more than Giroux

Cap ceiling when the contract was signed, league comparables, and most importantly RFA vs. UFA. Wait until Toews and Kane are UFA's and you'll see numbers closer to 8.5-9

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09-26-2013, 02:50 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I think Kessel is great in that he is an offensive catalyst of the highest order, which is rare in wingers.

64 million seems like a lot of money, but I have trouble keeping up with inflation.

I don't think the Leafs can let him go and remain competitive.

Kadri is still untested, Lupul is injury prone and Bozak relies on Kessel.

He's their elite offensive force and you can't give a guy like that up because there aren't that many around.

If a magical #1 center appeared with Kessel's offensive abilities, is he the better option? Maybe, but it's pointless to speculate because these guys are not available on the market very often.

We'll see how Kadri develops.
I feel the same way, especially considering that they locked up Bozak partially because of his chemistry with Kessel.

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09-26-2013, 02:52 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
Please enlighten me on how my assesment of Phil kessel as a player is wrong? Do u think Kessel should be paid more than a Patrick Kane or Jonathon Toews? If so please explain why.
Toews and Kane are on good contracts, and signed them when that price was reasonable for those types of players. As the cap goes up, the salaries for players is also going to go up. There's no point in comparing what JT and PK signed to what Kessel will get. A better comparison would be Perry/Getzlaf imo considering they recently signed and are of similar caliber.

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09-26-2013, 02:56 PM
  #138
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Kane and Toews will take less money to stay hawks IMO.


Getzlaf was the best center in 07 playoffs for ducks at only 21 years if age.

But I won't argue anymore I think kessel will get run out of Toronto If he signs an 8 year deal.

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09-26-2013, 02:56 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I think Kessel is great in that he is an offensive catalyst of the highest order, which is rare in wingers.

64 million seems like a lot of money, but I have trouble keeping up with inflation.

I don't think the Leafs can let him go and remain competitive.

Kadri is still untested, Lupul is injury prone and Bozak relies on Kessel.

He's their elite offensive force and you can't give a guy like that up because there aren't that many around.

If a magical #1 center appeared with Kessel's offensive abilities, is he the better option? Maybe, but it's pointless to speculate because these guys are not available on the market very often.

We'll see how Kadri develops.
Losing Kessel would set our offense back a few years, no doubt. He pretty much carried us into the playoffs in the last 2 months.

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09-26-2013, 02:58 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
Kane and Toews will take less money to stay hawks IMO.
Why? I think at the time those were fair value

Quote:
Getzlaf was the best center in 07 playoffs for ducks at only 21 years if age.

But I won't argue anymore I think kessel will get run out of Toronto If he signs an 8 year deal.
Key here is 07 playoffs. I am talking about their most recent contract extension, where Getzlaf and Perry have been elite players, but Kessel is right at their level.

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09-26-2013, 03:18 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I can see why people may think Kessel's personality wouldn't mesh with Toronto but lets face the facts, he left Boston for Toronto (Leafs essentially got a signed Kessel) and has played his best hockey in Toronto. At the end of the day this contract will come down to numbers, not preference of destination.
I don't think so.. I think he's clearly in line for getting the largest contract to handed out this summer as the youngest elite and likely the most productive forward available.

Giroux-like numbers it will be. I'm pretty sure there will be multiple teams interested which will then bring it down to destination.

Kessel holds the cards here - U.F.A. status = Nonis unable to play super hardball..

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09-26-2013, 03:31 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
Kane and Toews will take less money to stay hawks IMO.
Probably. But with the cap going up they might both want $9m a year starting in 2015.

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09-26-2013, 03:56 PM
  #143
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Let's just say they are...hacking...away at this extension quickly. Better dot the I's and...Slash...the T's before he hits the market.

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09-26-2013, 04:05 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
Kane and Toews will take less money to stay hawks IMO.

Based on what exactly???

Getzlaf was the best center in 07 playoffs for ducks at only 21 years if age.

Point being???

But I won't argue anymore I think kessel will get run out of Toronto If he signs an 8 year deal.

Again, based on what exactly? All he's done here is completely live up to expectations and erase any doubts


Maybe try using facts to substantiate your opinion, instead of using your opinion to try and substantiate your opinion...ie you could compare Kessel's next contract to actual contracts that were signed to similar players (Getzlaf, Perry, Giroux) rather than trying to speculate what Kane and Toews will sign for.

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09-26-2013, 05:25 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Maybe try using facts to substantiate your opinion, instead of using your opinion to try and substantiate your opinion...ie you could compare Kessel's next contract to actual contracts that were signed to similar players (Getzlaf, Perry, Giroux) rather than trying to speculate what Kane and Toews will sign for.
Hawks management has already said they want kane and Toews to be hawks forever I believe it was one of the Wirtz that said it. For that to happen they will have to take less money plus they both really like Chicago.

Phil kessel isn't as good as perry getzlaf or Giroux so sorry he's not comparable to them.

Hers a fact for u The Leafs haven't win a playoff series since kessel has been a leaf.

As for kessel living up To the hype? He had a courtesy invite to the all star game 2 years ago. Was invisible in the playoffs against Boston for all games except 3.

Fact Leafs leadership was apart of the worst collapse in a game 7 in history. That says something about your team.

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09-26-2013, 05:32 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by seventyz78 View Post
Hawks management has already said they want kane and Toews to be hawks forever I believe it was one of the Wirtz that said it. For that to happen they will have to take less money plus they both really like Chicago.

Phil kessel isn't as good as perry getzlaf or Giroux so sorry he's not comparable to them.

Hers a fact for u The Leafs haven't win a playoff series since kessel has been a leaf.

As for kessel living up To the hype? He had a courtesy invite to the all star game 2 years ago. Was invisible in the playoffs against Boston for all games except 3.

Fact Leafs leadership was apart of the worst collapse in a game 7 in history. That says something about your team.
Invisible with 4 goals and 2 assists in 7 games? Collapse is Kessel's fault? Is it not a team game? Clearly you and your 7 posts are only here to troll.

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09-26-2013, 05:33 PM
  #147
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i wouldnt want Kessel on my team for 8x8

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09-26-2013, 05:36 PM
  #148
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i wouldnt want Kessel on my team for 8x8
Cool we will be glad to have him for that.

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09-26-2013, 05:56 PM
  #149
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Next year they might have
Kessel @ 8.5
Phanuef @ 6.5
Clarkson @ 5.25 (lo10
JVR @ 4.250
=25.5 which is 36% of the whole teams cap (assuming it goes up to 68 million). Thats a very high number for 4 players. Not to mention having to resign Franson, Kadri, Gardiner, Ranger and a bunch of other free agents in the upcoming 1 or 2 years

Its going to be very tight cap wise. But they have to re sign Kessel. Letting him walk for nothing would be one of the biggest GM failures since the Milbury days

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09-26-2013, 06:02 PM
  #150
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8 mill is equivilant to 6 mill once the cap goes up. 8 mill would be very good for a top 5 scorer in the NHL

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