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12-04-2013, 01:54 PM
  #1
Foppa2118
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Denver Post Thread

This is a thread about the Denver Post. If there's something you want to share, or that you like, you can post it here.

However, for most of us it can be a place to vent about our frustrations with the Denver Post and it's writers. I know myself and others complain a lot about the Post in other threads, and for some it might get annoying, so this can be a dedicated space to bump the thread any time you feel like posting about something that irked you. For those that like the Post, or don't want to hear complaints about it, they don't have to open the thread.

If the thread dies, or nobody wants to post in it, so be it, it'll just be a place that isn't OT for me to rant a bit with my first post. I know for myself though, I see things that are just completely wrong or lazy, and I don't always want to derail another thread with a tirade about the Post, and there's not usually a place that's relevant to bring it up.

So, if Dater happens to lose his internet connection, or act naive about international data plans, or miss a flight, or get sick, or otherwise can't do his job and provide the fans with coverage of something, and it pisses you off, you can post about it here. If he gets scooped on yet another trade, or rumor, or seems to get most his info from the internet and other stories. If he gets another CBA fact wrong, or makes a ridiculous point about something hockey related, and it annoys you, this is the place.

If Chambers posts a complete inaccuracy, or writes about something that is just factually wrong, here's the place. If he asks the same question a player just answered twice already in a media scrum, this is the place to point it out. If he misses a morning practice and doesn't know who the starting goaltender is, you can get mad about it here.

If Kiszla writes a completely asinine, sensationalistic story about how the Avs should give up on Duchene and trade him, or dump Varly and bring in Miller in the offseason, you can call him a complete hack moron here.

If you rely solely on your info about the Avalanche from means other than the Post, like Eurolanche, or other sites and media outlets, and think it's laughable that the Post wants to charge you, you can laugh about said nonsense here.

Since there's no accountability for poor journalism at the Post, or comments allowed on most of their stories, we can at least have our voices heard here asking for something better than bread and water for dinner every night. Basically if you're sick of the Post and it's coverage, and that it hires terrible writers, most likely because they're cheap and no one else would want them, and wish there was at least one other paper in town for competition to make them have some sense of standards, rather than complete apathy, this is the place to vent bout it.

Especially when they're going to start asking people to pay to breathe the fumes of this turd called the Denver Post in the not to distant future.

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12-04-2013, 01:55 PM
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"To be honest, I'm not into that," Roy said. "I'd rather go with the very basic ratings after games."
For the Avalanche coach, that mostly means statistics such as team scoring chances for and against and plus-minus.
A player who is a minus-2 for three consecutive games, for instance, probably will draw a meeting with Roy to discuss what is going wrong. A player at a plus-2 for three consecutive games will be told just to keep doing what he's doing."


I'll start it with this, because this is why I started this thread. I read Dater completely misrepresent Patrick Roy and imply he's a big believer in +/-, and I didn't know where to tell people he's an idiot, and this isn't at all what Roy was referring to. The Post disables comments on most of their stories, probably because they get so much hate over their crap coverage.

He wasn't talking about +/- you idiot. He was talking about their basic rating after games. As in 1-5, how the coach's rank each players performance after games. That's why he said "a player could be on a really good streak, he's got 4's every night, and you'd just tell him to keep going." You really think he was referring to a player being a +4 multiple games in a row, like that's going to happen?

He never once said the words plus or minus. Every time Dater makes an assumption about what someone is talking about, or about a situation without clarifying it first, he gets it wrong.

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12-04-2013, 02:16 PM
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If this was started a couple years ago, it would have as many threads as the trade proposal thread. With infinite clever titles at Dater's expense.

Now, it will be probably be done with once the paywall goes up. Can't believe they're actually going to try and charge people money to read Dater/Chambers/Kizsla's opinions.

Roy and staff actually rate every single player after each game? There is something I would pay to see.

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12-04-2013, 02:21 PM
  #4
Teuras
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Is it possible to give feedback to DP?

Have you tried it?

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12-04-2013, 02:27 PM
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Is it possible to give feedback to DP?

Have you tried it?
Yes, don't visit their site/follow their writers.

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Old
12-04-2013, 02:34 PM
  #6
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This is a good idea. I will definitely make use of this thread. We can all feel each other's pain and offer support for our collective sanity.

I know a lot of people say if you don't like them or find value in their work then just ignore it. It is just not that simple. The problem is the DP is the only local coverage of the team aside from a couple blogs/online media sources. What the DP writes most of the time goes into print and is the only source for what many of the citizens of Colorado get their Avs news. If things are inaccurate or heavily spun by the DP then there is no fighting the perception or lasting impact. Becuase I am a local fan it matters to me what happens to this team on a local level. I can't even begin to describe how many times I've had to set people straight on things about the Avs becuase they heard this or that through the DP. The perception on the Avs is really in flux around here. They've been written off for years but just starting to get some of that casual attention and buzz back. if you guys want the Kronkes to spend money and for good things to happen to the team they need to be successful locally. In general the media coverage has been better, a lot more radio talk than in the years past. I think it's a great idea that Roy has a weekly half hour radio show. I'm hoping they can get the Avs some TV appearances outside of Altitude. I've been really harping on Vic Lombardi getting some on his Monday night TV show on CBS. Some TV coverage would be huge for this team.

But back to the Denver Post, I understand for the most part they are trying to (minimally) do their jobs and nothing is going to be perfect. It does take a lot to follow a team out on the road week after week. But it is just really disappointing when there is nothing offered past the bare bones quotes. 80% of their content comes straight from the Roy pressers. I can even tell when quotes are recycled from story to story and most of those come from the player videos the Avs post. They also rip off a ton of coverage from Altitude, the exact same quotes from the in between player interviews and other things that are clear Altitude exclusives. It is also sad when the opposing team's media covers the Avs better than our own media with features and interviews. Every once in a while the DP does something decent like the O'Reilly and yoga feature, that was at least something new and refreshing. This team deserves better and it is disappointing. I just want to learn more about my hockey team and whats going on. I'm not expecting miracles or impossible to get information. Is it too much to ask that the information that is provided is accurate?

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12-04-2013, 02:37 PM
  #7
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Are there any other critically acclaimed writers who cover Avs, who don't work for the DP? Eurolanche is very good but do they work in Europe exclusively?

If there are others then maybe boycott DP and follow the other writers instead.

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12-04-2013, 02:42 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Tigervixxen View Post
This is a good idea. I will definitely make use of this thread. We can all feel each other's pain and offer support for our collective sanity.

I know a lot of people say if you don't like them or find value in their work then just ignore it. It is just not that simple. The problem is the DP is the only local coverage of the team aside from a couple blogs/online media sources. What the DP writes most of the time goes into print and is the only source for what many of the citizens of Colorado get their Avs news. If things are inaccurate or heavily spun by the DP then there is no fighting the perception or lasting impact. Becuase I am a local fan it matters to me what happens to this team on a local level. I can't even begin to describe how many times I've had to set people straight on things about the Avs becuase they heard this or that through the DP. The perception on the Avs is really in flux around here. They've been written off for years but just starting to get some of that casual attention and buzz back. if you guys want the Kronkes to spend money and for good things to happen to the team they need to be successful locally. In general the media coverage has been better, a lot more radio talk than in the years past. I think it's a great idea that Roy has a weekly half hour radio show. I'm hoping they can get the Avs some TV appearances outside of Altitude. I've been really harping on Vic Lombardi getting some on his Monday night TV show on CBS. Some TV coverage would be huge for this team.

But back to the Denver Post, I understand for the most part they are trying to (minimally) do their jobs and nothing is going to be perfect. It does take a lot to follow a team out on the road week after week. But it is just really disappointing when there is nothing offered past the bare bones quotes. 80% of their content comes straight from the Roy pressers. I can even tell when quotes are recycled from story to story and most of those come from the player videos the Avs post. They also rip off a ton of coverage from Altitude, the exact same quotes from the in between player interviews and other things that are clear Altitude exclusives. It is also sad when the opposing team's media covers the Avs better than our own media with features and interviews. Every once in a while the DP does something decent like the O'Reilly and yoga feature, that was at least something new and refreshing. This team deserves better and it is disappointing. I just want to learn more about my hockey team and whats going on. I'm not expecting miracles or impossible to get information. Is it too much to ask that the information that is provided is accurate?
For the cause fan, mostly true. But all they want to do is glance at the box scores and maybe read a headline. But at least for us, we have HF to use. Granted, most of the news here originates from the Post's coverage, but it gets filtered here by the masses to remove the majority of the garbage.

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12-04-2013, 02:42 PM
  #9
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The Denver Post is going to a pay wall. Soon you will have to pay for their crappy sports coverage.

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12-04-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
"To be honest, I'm not into that," Roy said. "I'd rather go with the very basic ratings after games."
For the Avalanche coach, that mostly means statistics such as team scoring chances for and against and plus-minus.
A player who is a minus-2 for three consecutive games, for instance, probably will draw a meeting with Roy to discuss what is going wrong. A player at a plus-2 for three consecutive games will be told just to keep doing what he's doing."


I'll start it with this, because this is why I started this thread. I read Dater completely misrepresent Patrick Roy and imply he's a big believer in +/-, and I didn't know where to tell people he's an idiot, and this isn't at all what Roy was referring to. The Post disables comments on most of their stories, probably because they get so much hate over their crap coverage.

He wasn't talking about +/- you idiot. He was talking about their basic rating after games. As in 1-5, how the coach's rank each players performance after games. That's why he said "a player could be on a really good streak, he's got 4's every night, and you'd just tell him to keep going." You really think he was referring to a player being a +4 multiple games in a row, like that's going to happen?

He never once said the words plus or minus. Every time Dater makes an assumption about what someone is talking about, or about a situation without clarifying it first, he gets it wrong.
I had 100% completely the same reaction. He got Roy's quote completely wrong. Also from the presser notice Dater asks Roy the same question like 3 times about "advanced stats" and Roy finally says "like what?" and Dater says something like "you know, those advanced stats". He couldn't even come up with the word Corsi or Fenwick.

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12-04-2013, 02:44 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Teuras View Post
Are there any other critically acclaimed writers who cover Avs, who don't work for the DP? Eurolanche is very good but do they work in Europe exclusively?

If there are others then maybe boycott DP and follow the other writers instead.
Does MHH have press access to the team yet. That will be a good source if/when they get it.

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12-04-2013, 02:48 PM
  #12
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Are there any other critically acclaimed writers who cover Avs, who don't work for the DP? Eurolanche is very good but do they work in Europe exclusively?

If there are others then maybe boycott DP and follow the other writers instead.
Almost nothing. Rick Sadowski writes for Hockey Buzz and does a better job at effort and quotes but he doesn't travel with the team. Ryan Boulding at Mile High Sports also does not travel with team and covering the Avs isn't even his day job but he's better at articles and information when he can cover the team. Other than that there is literally nobody else covering this team.

Eurolanche has good player access for interviews but otherwise they can't cover the day to day aspects of the team from Europe.

MHH might get occasional access but for the most part no, they do a good job but the vast majority of it is fan coverage.

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12-04-2013, 02:48 PM
  #13
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Does MHH have press access to the team yet. That will be a good source if/when they get it.
Meh, MHH sucks too.

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12-04-2013, 02:52 PM
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The Denver Post is going to a pay wall. Soon you will have to pay for their crappy sports coverage.
Anyone who pays for Dater/Chambers work will be living proof of the saying about a fool and his money.

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12-04-2013, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
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Are there any other critically acclaimed writers who cover Avs, who don't work for the DP? Eurolanche is very good but do they work in Europe exclusively?

If there are others then maybe boycott DP and follow the other writers instead.
Well, David could answer himself but they've been expanding, I know they have at least one stateside writer. And Eurolanche is definitely the best source for in-depth info on the Avs right now.

I think the overall quality in coverage went down a bit when the Rocky Mountain News went under. I really liked getting news from both Dater and Sadowski. Can't believe Sadowski can only get gigs with NHL.com and freakin' Hockeybuzz these days.

Overall, I like Dater, though sometimes I swear he can beat a dead horse into the ground on some subjects. Chambers is a nonentity, and Frei's too busy promoting his books.

I think it also hurts that the Avs have their own TV/Radio station. When The Fan carried games, their people had no problem whatsoever ripping into the team when it was needed and also getting the scoop. Now it's a little too softball these days. Even Rycroft is softening up a bit, though that might be a result of the team doing a lot better this year.

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12-04-2013, 03:06 PM
  #16
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Well, David could answer himself but they've been expanding, I know they have at least one stateside writer. And Eurolanche is definitely the best source for in-depth info on the Avs right now.

I think the overall quality in coverage went down a bit when the Rocky Mountain News went under. I really liked getting news from both Dater and Sadowski. Can't believe Sadowski can only get gigs with NHL.com and freakin' Hockeybuzz these days.

Overall, I like Dater, though sometimes I swear he can beat a dead horse into the ground on some subjects. Chambers is a nonentity, and Frei's too busy promoting his books.

I think it also hurts that the Avs have their own TV/Radio station. When The Fan carried games, their people had no problem whatsoever ripping into the team when it was needed and also getting the scoop. Now it's a little too softball these days. Even Rycroft is softening up a bit, though that might be a result of the team doing a lot better this year.
Altitude does a fantastic job, in my opinion, covering the team. They actually bring a lot of insight into the opposing team, and at the very least point out our deficiencies and call out our play. They are much better than other local broadcasts.

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12-04-2013, 03:07 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Tigervixxen View Post
Almost nothing. Rick Sadowski writes for Hockey Buzz and does a better job at effort and quotes but he doesn't travel with the team. Ryan Boulding at Mile High Sports also does not travel with team and covering the Avs isn't even his day job but he's better at articles and information when he can cover the team. Other than that there is literally nobody else covering this team.

Eurolanche has good player access for interviews but otherwise they can't cover the day to day aspects of the team from Europe.

MHH might get occasional access but for the most part no, they do a good job but the vast majority of it is fan coverage.
That doesn't look good at all. If only there was someone who could see this opportunity and hire Sadowski/Boulding/Anyone with great hockey knowledge and writing skills to write for them. It would be relatively easy to dethrone the rotten Denver Post. Anyone up for the challenge?

BTW: What does it take to get access to the team?

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12-04-2013, 03:40 PM
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A lot unfortunately. They used to not even allow bloggers/online media of any type but then maybe they realized how limiting that would be. Practices are open to the public at least, one could get a lot of info by just attending those but the player and Roy access is what is very limiting. Though some people who wait for autographs and talk briefly to the players can get more info than reporters. That's how ANY info on the Monsters is provided.

I will say the coverage the Avs provide has been very good. It's too bad they don't do a lot on the road but Moser does a decent job in substitute.

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12-04-2013, 05:00 PM
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Altitude does a fantastic job, in my opinion, covering the team. They actually bring a lot of insight into the opposing team, and at the very least point out our deficiencies and call out our play. They are much better than other local broadcasts.
They've certainly improved, I'm not so sure I'd call it fantastic though. Way better than the puffball coverage they used to do.

On a side note it's a shame In Denver Times failed. I see now that they've shut down completely. I pledged money during their startup campaign, but it failed to garner enough support.

I wish someone would just resurrect the Rocky Mountain News in some form. The site is still up, someone could just take that and run with it, maybe make it into a monthly publication like The Hockey News or something.

The one thing I do still like on the DP site is All Things Avs.

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12-04-2013, 05:15 PM
  #20
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This is a thread about the Denver Post. If there's something you want to share, or that you like, you can post it here.
the Denver Post is a rag whose only claim to fame is being slightly better than the Rocky Mountain News.

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12-04-2013, 07:40 PM
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So nice to have Slava Malamud at the media scrum today after practice. Hearing actual well thought out questions, rather than the bumbling nonsense from Dater and Chambers was so nice for a change. I like how everyone just shut up, and let him ask question after question, because they had no actual substance to add themselves.

The questions weren't anything special under normal circumstances, but I almost had a Shawshank moment, where the prisoners hear the two Opera singers singing over the loud speaker, after going without music or anything beautiful for years.

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12-04-2013, 08:14 PM
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Was that today or yesterday? I can't find anything from today. Did you see Dater tweeted him yesterday something like "Roy doesn't talk to us like that". Well no ****.

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12-05-2013, 12:11 AM
  #23
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Was that today or yesterday? I can't find anything from today. Did you see Dater tweeted him yesterday something like "Roy doesn't talk to us like that". Well no ****.
Yea, today. He was the one asking all the Varly questions in the post practice scrum today. I think Roy kind of perked up a little like he was dealing with an adult for a change.

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12-05-2013, 12:56 AM
  #24
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Am I the only one really curious as to what Stastny did to Dater to deserve so much venom?

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12-05-2013, 01:44 AM
  #25
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Who knows. My best guess is his pay. Dater thinks its ridiculous how much they all get paid so it's easy to focus on the guy who is making the most and expect him to carry the team.

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