HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Confirmed: How the NHL Lottery Will Look

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-15-2005, 10:08 AM
  #101
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
The results were very interesting.
So it's your contention that every market would do a better job "selling the game" than NY because the end of the lockout wasn't front page news?

Since when is the NHL's marketing campaign to simply allow local media to sell their game for them?

Melrose_Jr. is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 10:19 AM
  #102
DarthSather99
Registered User
 
DarthSather99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Only problem with that is the Rangers in seven years only finished poorly enough to qualify for a lottery to win the first overall pick once in seven years (1999) so they are not deserving of the number one pick either based on where they finished. If your going to make that point about Detroit not being deserving you have to make the exact same point about the Rangers. In the end both teams were elevated which is why it is fair.
I think for that very reason the Rangers deserve a high pick. They have been toiling just below the playoff teams but not bad enough to get a quality prospect. The last year the band-aid approach of adding free agents finally fell apart. Right now, they have arguably the least talent than any organization in the NHL. They have decent prospects but none that are considered guaranteed first liners.

DarthSather99 is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 10:28 AM
  #103
NYIsles1*
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Bottom line is that the NHL reached it's peak of popularity when the NYR's won both the Presidents Trophy and the Cup in '94....do you think that was a coincidence?
The bottom line is you cannot sell two weeks eleven years ago where three teams gave hockey a fantastic show as a selling point in 2005. Especially today in a two hundred million dollar Yankee market where the season never ends with so many other oversaturated sports appealing to far more sports fans and the money they spend.

NYIsles1* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 10:51 AM
  #104
NYIsles1*
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
So it's your contention that every market would do a better job "selling the game" than NY because the end of the lockout wasn't front page news?
My contention in the thread was to see from fellow members on our board what US and Canadian media outlets regard the lockout ending as a major story with prime coverage, which does by contrast gives a valid perspective as to what status and newspaper coverage the publishers and editors will give our sport on important and even historic days moving forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Since when is the NHL's marketing campaign to simply allow local media to sell their game for them?
I'm not sure where the NHL's marketing campaign even enters this so I'm not sure how to respond. NHL.com does not advertise in local newspapers (in this market) nor do they influence the sports executitives who decide what or where in the paper they will print stories. League souces provide information to beatwriters who use them in their stories.

NYIsles1* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 10:52 AM
  #105
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
So it's your contention that every market would do a better job "selling the game" than NY because the end of the lockout wasn't front page news?

Since when is the NHL's marketing campaign to simply allow local media to sell their game for them?

If that's his arguement it's ridiculous.

Bottom line is it is VITAL for the NHL to gain in the US NOT in Canada where it's reached it's highest level of popularity already much like when Gretz went to LA and helped the sunbelt expansion.

That being said tell me what US market would be better suited to showcase Sid?

Maybe NYISLES1 should think back to the time when some bald guy came from Edmonton and held the biggest city in the world in the palm of his hand and lead the NYR's and hockey to the height of it's popularity to the point where Sports Illustated ran a huge story about how the NHL was about to overtake the NBA for the #3 spot but then the Devil;s won the next yr and everybody else followed suit with trap hockey and the entertainment level went in the crapper.

But the point is that Messier, despite all his dominate yrs in EDM didn't achieve a fraction of the popularity that he recieved once he came to NYC where he became a household name in the US.

NYISLES1, tell me what market would be a better US market for Crosby.

BTW--Did anybody else catch Melrose on ESPN going on about how if the NHL were smart they'd slip a few extra NYR balls into the lottery and how he personally was hoping for us to get Sid for the good of the game?


Last edited by JR#9*: 07-15-2005 at 10:58 AM.
JR#9* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 11:11 AM
  #106
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1

I'm not sure where the NHL's marketing campaign even enters this so I'm not sure how to respond. NHL.com does not advertise in local newspapers (in this market) nor do they influence the sports executitives who decide what or where in the paper they will print stories. League souces provide information to beatwriters who use them in their stories.
Your not sure how their marketing campaign enters into it?

The product on the ice is what is their marketing campaign and that's why it has been the biggest disgarce in all of sports because in allowing overexpansion they allowed for skilled and star players to be marginalized by 3rd/4th line plumbers and grinders instead of having the star players, you know the ones with the all world skills that people actually pay good money to see on display, be at the forefront of the game.

It looks like they are trying to correct this gigantic mistake with some of the drastic changes they're looking to make but the bottom line is it has been impossible for any team to market the game because of the rules the NHL implemented and the ones it chose not to enforce which led to a disgusting level of nonskilled hockey on display.

JR#9* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 11:16 AM
  #107
NYIsles1*
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
and the entertainment level went in the crapper.
That's the same entertainment level that had a Ranger-Flyer/Avs-Wing conference finals in 1997. I hope your aware that 94 is your perspective on when hockey was at it's peak while fans and media in other markets have their opinion as to when was hockey's peak. The 94 playoffs helped hockey get it's television contract so the Rangers helped do that for hockey with a great show and deserve the credit with the Devils and Canucks.

Let's just say we have some very different ideas as to what would be hockey's peak around here.

Back in the early seventies when the Rangers-Hawks and Bruins played some incredible series that's when hockey was popular in Manhattan and arguably at it's peak because it had yearly sustained coverage and absolutely was a major market sport here and the games looked like the religion it is in Montreal, Philadelphia and Toronto today, Ed Giaconmin was traded and Ranger fans cheered for him to beat his former club in an incredible display. We had a hockey market in the late seventies and early eighties where the Isles could play Calgary on a Monday night at the Coliseum, no one could get a seat and the next day all three city papers would have the game on the back page and the same would hold true for the Rangers when they played without the game even being on local television because it was a home game. Islander-Ranger hype would start three days in advance before games in those days and the market was so strong they decided a third team could survive here.

Hockey in those day did not need a peak, our sport was just that good.

NYIsles1* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 11:32 AM
  #108
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
My contention in the thread was to see from fellow members on our board what US and Canadian media outlets regard the lockout ending as a major story with prime coverage, which does by contrast gives a valid perspective as to what status and newspaper coverage the publishers and editors will give our sport on important and even historic days moving forward.
What does that have to do with the market that ultimately drafts Crosby?

Melrose_Jr. is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 11:36 AM
  #109
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
NYISLES1...which US market would best serve hockey in landing Crosby better than the NYR's would.

Not saying we deserve him or any nonsense like that but I don't see how him landing in NYC wouldn't be ideal for the game itself being that this is by far the biggest and most populated market as well as the media capital of the world and the team itself has fans all over NA.

JR#9* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 11:57 AM
  #110
NYIsles1*
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
What does that have to do with the market that ultimately drafts Crosby?
I think it's fair to say the same editors and media professionals who regard the lockout ending as major news will also be the same people who decide what media coverage to give Crosby not only next week or the day he is drafted but on a daily long-term basis which is what this has to be about for the NHL. Explain why you would not think both are related if he does or does not become a franchise player for this business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
...which US market would best serve hockey in landing Crosby better than the NYR's would.
Any place willing to make him that markets signature star and cover him daily as such because that's the best way to make this work, IMO and that is just not here as an Islander, Ranger or Devil.

Look at the star players that played on all three teams here and how it's fared against competition in other sports here, some outstanding players, why will it be different/better with other sports getting larger and the Nets moving to Brooklyn?

This is not about US population figures or media size markets (although you make a point about New York fans across the country) it is about who can sell Crosby the best if he does become a player who is drafted by a US market team.

NYIsles1* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 12:18 PM
  #111
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,022
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Any place willing to make him that markets signature star and cover him daily as such because that's the best way to make this work, IMO and that is just not here as an Islander, Ranger or Devil.

Look at the star players that played on all three teams here and how it's fared against competition in other sports here, some outstanding players, why will it be different/better with other sports getting larger and the Nets moving to Brooklyn?

This is not about US population figures or media size markets (although you make a point about New York fans across the country) it is about who can sell Crosby the best if he does become a player who is drafted by a US market team.
Well then look to Crosby being in Canada. Or Columbus, Nashville, and San Jose (although San Jose is really greater Bay Area). There is no major market that is going to make Crosby its lead star. That's just not possible. Why would a market make Crosby the signature star when he would play at best, the third most important sport to that market?

NY: Jeter, A-Rod, Piazza, Pedro, Beltran, Pennington, Manning, Marbury, Kidd, Carter

Chicago: Lee, Wood, Prior, Nomar, Konerko, Buehrle, Garland

LA: Vlad, Kent, Gagne, Kobe,

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 12:24 PM
  #112
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
I.
This is not about US population figures or media size markets (although you make a point about New York fans across the country) it is about who can sell Crosby the best if he does become a player who is drafted by a US market team.
How can it mot be about population?

If you capture even 20% of the NY market it's usually bigger than most US hocket markets.

No area has the population and exposure that the tri-state area has and love them or hate them the NYR's have huge following all over the country as well as all the NYR haters who have an interest in rooting against them.

JR#9* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 12:25 PM
  #113
Slewfoot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Amboy NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
If your interpretation of Melrose saying that means that the NHL will listen to him then im sorry..all hope is lost for you. But yea...because someone on ESPN said that then it MUST mean that it will happen. Sure sounds like it right?


If your going to troll, then just leave our board please.
Maybe the Devils will get him and they can teach him the TRAP !!

Slewfoot is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 12:39 PM
  #114
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Well then look to Crosby being in Canada. Or Columbus, Nashville, and San Jose (although San Jose is really greater Bay Area). There is no major market that is going to make Crosby its lead star. That's just not possible. Why would a market make Crosby the signature star when he would play at best, the third most important sport to that market?

NY: Jeter, A-Rod, Piazza, Pedro, Beltran, Pennington, Manning, Marbury, Kidd, Carter

Chicago: Lee, Wood, Prior, Nomar, Konerko, Buehrle, Garland

LA: Vlad, Kent, Gagne, Kobe,
I don't think you necessarily have to play the cities most important spart to be the lead star in the city

Some names that come to mind as being the lead "star" in a city, without their sport being #1.

Michael Jordan
Mark Messier
Eric Lindros
Allen Iverson
Bobby Orr
Larry Bird
Peter Forsberg
Brett Hull
Lawrence Taylor
Barry Sanders

John Flyers Fan is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 12:57 PM
  #115
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,022
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
I don't think you necessarily have to play the cities most important spart to be the lead star in the city

Some names that come to mind as being the lead "star" in a city, without their sport being #1.

Michael Jordan
Mark Messier
Eric Lindros
Allen Iverson
Bobby Orr
Larry Bird
Peter Forsberg
Brett Hull
Lawrence Taylor
Barry Sanders
You can make an argument that Jordan and the Bulls were the lead sport at the time. For that matter, you can make an argument that Football is the lead sport in some towns.

Forsberg was never as big a star as Elway. LT was never the lead star in New York.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:02 PM
  #116
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,344
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
You can make an argument that Jordan and the Bulls were the lead sport at the time. For that matter, you can make an argument that Football is the lead sport in some towns.

Forsberg was never as big a star as Elway. LT was never the lead star in New York.
Basketball is not the most important sport in Chicago. Bears and Cubs dominate Chicago.

After Elway retired Forsberg became the "star" in Denver, even though Football is king.

LT is debateable, but he was right with Darryl & Doc as the man in NY during the mid-late 80's.

John Flyers Fan is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:07 PM
  #117
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan

LT is debateable, but he was right with Darryl & Doc as the man in NY during the mid-late 80's.
3 of NY's biggest stars in the 80's all doing mountains of coke....the 80's were a funny time.

JR#9* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:15 PM
  #118
NYIsles1*
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Well then look to Crosby being in Canada. Or Columbus, Nashville, and San Jose (although San Jose is really greater Bay Area). There is no major market that is going to make Crosby its lead star. That's just not possible. Why would a market make Crosby the signature star when he would play at best, the third most important sport to that market?
Because the gap between the first and third sports in New York (Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, Knicks, Nets, any national event) vs other markets is not nearly as great as it is here between the teams in those markets and hockey. Crosby can be a markets signature star for a peirod of time during their regular season in some makets where here that's not going to happen very often if at all here.

Off hand I think Philadelphia can give Crosby extra coverage where he will have his segment of the media following him for peirods of the season as a signature star in that market even with the Eagles #1 as many have told me. Colorado also, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Detroit.

New York cannot do that with the competition you mention and beyond with any regularity, it's oversaturated and only getting worse.

NYIsles1* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:22 PM
  #119
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
Because the gap between the first and third sports in New York (Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, Knicks, Nets, any national event) vs other markets is not nearly as great as it is here between the teams in those markets and hockey. Crosby can be a markets signature star for a peirod of time during their regular season in some makets where here that's not going to happen very often if at all here.

Off hand I think Philadelphia can give Crosby extra coverage where he will have his segment of the media following him for peirods of the season as a signature star in that market even with the Eagles #1 as many have told me. Colorado also, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Detroit.

New York cannot do that with the competition you mention and beyond with any regularity, it's oversaturated and only getting worse.
What your not getting is that with 20 million people in the greater NY area even being 4th in a market is still like being 1st or maybe 2nd in other markets.

The fact that you throw Pitt as a place that may be better served making Crosby a star is a joke.The team won't even be there long because the city won't pay for a new arena and they've been in bankruptcy mulitple times.

Sounds like a great place for the games next star!

JR#9* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:23 PM
  #120
NYIsles1*
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan

LT is debateable, but he was right with Darryl & Doc as the man in NY during the mid-late 80's.
In those day's it was still called New Jersey Giants by many. Amazing what hoops media people will jump through to spin something they want to badly enough. Maybe the state border should be somewhere in the Meadowlands parking lot between the CAA and Giants Stadium. The racetrack can be the border.

Maybe Lou can slap a New York label on the Devils and see what happens, in a decade or so it just might stick?

NYIsles1* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:31 PM
  #121
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYIsles1
In those day's it was still called New Jersey Giants by many. Amazing what hoops media people will jump through to spin something they want to badly enough. Maybe the state border should be somewhere in the Meadowlands parking lot between the CAA and Giants Stadium. The racetrack can be the border.

Maybe Lou can slap a New York label on the Devils and see what happens, in a decade or so it just might stick?
how about the New York Devils of East Rutherford? seems to work for the Angels.

broadwayblue is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:42 PM
  #122
NYIsles1*
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
What your not getting is that with 20 million people in the greater NY area even being 4th in a market is still like being 1st or maybe 2nd in other markets.
You tend to go overboard a lot, it lessens your point. I'm pretty sure it's about eight million in the city itself, but whatever, maybe your expanding it to the region.

Sixty thousand homes (0.75) were the avg viewing audiance for the New York Rangers in this in 2003-04 with an 80m dollar product on Msg television that even added Jagr to a team with Lindros, Leetch, Kovalev and Messier. (Steve Zipay Newsday 12/14/04) Please spare me the June 94 updates and provide some contemporary information once without telling me about people hating the Rangers like they are the Yankees or something? Our AHL teams give discounts to the others fans to attend games in the others buildings while before the lockout the day of Islanders-Rangers almost was a non-news story.

The cable companies here did not even discuss a refund for a lockout and did not offer a rebate for the lack of games because there were not even enough hockey fans to bother complaining. Two weeks without Mets baseball last year with the team dead last and even the Attorney General was front and center in negotiations. Earlier this year without Mets baseball on Time Warner people were furious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
The fact that you throw Pitt as a place that may be better served making Crosby a star is a joke.The team won't even be there long because the city won't pay for a new arena and they've been in bankruptcy mulitple times.

Sounds like a great place for the games next star!
What's the players name who did ok job marketing NHL out of Pittsburgh for close to two decades last time? Who was that other player who was so popular around the NHL based on bis time in Pittsbugh the Rangers had to have him to sell hockey here?


Last edited by NYIsles1*: 07-15-2005 at 01:51 PM.
NYIsles1* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:49 PM
  #123
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,043
vCash: 500
I dont' think it's entirely accurate to say that the best market for crosby is the one that will make him their lead star.

so what if he becomes the lead star in nashville? who, outside of nashville, really cares about what's going on in nashville? nashville won't get him as much national exposure as a big market would, even if he's #1 there.

to use crosby as a marketing piece, the NHL would want him in a place that garners national media attention. if they want to pull in more US fans (which i think would be their main target, since the canadian fanbase is pretty well tapped) then they'd want a big, national US market. which excludes places like montreal and toronto because do you really think the regular sports fan that's not a real NHL fan will care if ESPN talked a little about crosby being a maple leaf? why should they care, it's not even their country, and it's just like "silly canadians and their hockey".

put him in a big US market with national exposure and you get more press and more people paying attention in the US because it's more relevant.

ultimately that's why a place like NY isn't a bad spot...even if he's surrounded by other sports stars, people pay attention to new york and if the league is hyping him up as the next big NY hockey star a lot more people will pay attention to that than him being hyped as the next great phoenix hockey star

Levitate is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 01:56 PM
  #124
JR#9*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
I tend to go overboard alot?

Maybe you should learn how to read more carefully.

There's significantly more than 8 million people in NEW YORK CITY alone.

If you read what I said I stated the greater NY area which includes NYC as well as Westchester Yonkers etc, Long Island, central and northern NJ, Southern Conneticut and you know what, when you add all that up is roughly 20 million people in the GREATER NY area which is what I stated.

As for the Pittsburg point, once again I have to correct you as if having a team filing for bankruptcy TWICE and have a market that won't even fund a new arena for the team that had these 2 superstars how valid is your point when they couldn't even boost up the MARKET THAT THEY PLAYED IN to the point where they could get a new arena biult so plase don't tell me how those 2 wouldn't have been served playing in a NY or a Detroit or Toronto bacause it's almost as bad an arguement as the one your trying to make in constantly trying to justify the Yashin deal to the point even know that you don't want him to be bought out.

JR#9* is offline  
Old
07-15-2005, 02:26 PM
  #125
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,022
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Basketball is not the most important sport in Chicago. Bears and Cubs dominate Chicago.

After Elway retired Forsberg became the "star" in Denver, even though Football is king.

LT is debateable, but he was right with Darryl & Doc as the man in NY during the mid-late 80's.

When the Bulls were winning championships, you can't tell me that they took a back seat to either the Bears or the Cubs.

Elway retired before Forsberg became a star? The Avs won the Cup in 95-96 and in 00-01. The Broncos won the Super Bowl in 1998 and 1999. They were there at the same time. For that matter you can make an argument that Forsberg wasn't the biggerst star on the team with Sakic and Roy and Bourque

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.