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Orpik as a rental

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Old
10-06-2013, 07:52 PM
  #1
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Orpik as a rental

What would you give up for Orpik as a rental? He's still a physical top-4 D with cup experience and good leadership abilities. His cap hit is $3.75 million per.

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10-06-2013, 07:55 PM
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Contending teams do not deal out rentals. Especially defensemen like Orpik who are physical and mobile, being a huge need in the playoffs.

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10-06-2013, 08:04 PM
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Big McLargehuge
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I don't believe there is even an alternate universe out there in which Orpik gets dealt...it's just not gonna happen.

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10-06-2013, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDangles View Post
Contending teams do not deal out rentals. Especially defensemen like Orpik who are physical and mobile, being a huge need in the playoffs.
This is for entertainment purposes only

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10-06-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDangles View Post
Contending teams do not deal out rentals. Especially defensemen like Orpik who are physical and mobile, being a huge need in the playoffs.
It was an idea on the Pens board. I don't expect nor want him to be moved, but I'm just curious on what he could get back.

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10-06-2013, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDangles View Post
Contending teams do not deal out rentals. Especially defensemen like Orpik who are physical and mobile, being a huge need in the playoffs.
The Pens dealt Ryan Whitney, an anchor of their 2008 cup run team, in 2009 because both the cap numbers, their personnel mix, and their organizational assets made him expendable.

Here are the facts: The Pens likely will not be able to afford to resign Orpik. Even if they resign him, it will mean keeping two of three out of Despres, Maatta, and Dumoulin in juniors next year, which I can't see them wanting to do.

IMO, I'm sure that Ray Shero isn't moving Orpik. BUT, it's no less implausible than moving Whitney was, i.e., when a good hockey trade presented itself.

So, purely as an exercise, there's no reason for the Pens NOT to move one of Niskanen or Orpik. Niskanen has limited value. Moving him won't address needs up front. Orpik has more value. Ergo, the question:

What would you offer for Orpik right now, because IMO you either move him before Christmas or not at all?

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I don't believe there is even an alternate universe out there in which Orpik gets dealt...it's just not gonna happen.
I didn't think that Ryan Whitney would be dealt.

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10-06-2013, 08:17 PM
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Was Ryan Whitney the team record holder for games played by a defenseman? Was Ryan Whitney on the last year of a 6 year UFA deal that was worth significantly less than was offered elsewhere? Was Ryan Whitney the veteran leader of the defense?

I very much believed Whitney could be dealt, mostly because he was ****ing awful for the calender year leading up to the trade. That and I personally built the 'Ryan Whitney is goddamned awful' bandwagon, but that's beside the point

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10-06-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Was Ryan Whitney the team record holder for games played by a defenseman? Was Ryan Whitney on the last year of a 6 year UFA deal that was worth significantly less than was offered elsewhere? Was Ryan Whitney the veteran leader of the defense?

I very much believed Whitney could be dealt, mostly because he was ****ing awful for the calender year leading up to the trade. That and I personally built the 'Ryan Whitney is goddamned terrible' bandwagon, but that's beside the point
O'k, we'll start a value of Niskanen, Despres, and all the other Penguins defensive prospects thread. Happy now?

EDIT: It's a fun little intellectual exercise for something that isn't 100% inconceivable (e.g., compared to a value of McKinnon thread). Really, it's not as if anyone thinks it's likely that Orpik will be dealt . . .

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10-06-2013, 08:26 PM
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I'd assume the Habs would be interested. What type of return would interest you? Obviously certain prospects like McCarron are off the table.

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10-06-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
O'k, we'll start a value of Niskanen, Despres, and all the other Penguins defensive prospects thread. Happy now?


Orpik will likely be retiring a Penguin, and that's the way it should be. He'll take a discount to stay here and slowly move down the depth chart as he ages. He is still a competent top 4 physical guy we need, we don't have anybody in the pipelines that has what he brings. Honestly, I think Martin goes before Orpik. (But I expect Martin to play out his contract in Pitts) Niskanen will likely be dealt this season.

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10-06-2013, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
I'd assume the Habs would be interested. What type of return would interest you? Obviously certain prospects like McCarron are off the table.
I'd imagine that in the highly unlikely event that Orpik were moved, it would be for a guy who can play in their top nine, ideally their top six, who is younger and on a good contract.

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Orpik will likely be retiring a Penguin, and that's the way it should be. He'll take a discount to stay here and slowly move down the depth chart as he ages. He is still a competent top 4 physical guy we need, we don't have anybody in the pipelines that has what he brings. Honestly, I think Martin goes before Orpik. (But I expect Martin to play out his contract in Pitts) Niskanen will likely be dealt this season.
Of course, Orpik will retire as a Penguin. Martin won't go anywhere. Scuds and Letang are here. Bortuzzo has earned a spot. So, that leaves on starting position between no and say 2015 or 2016. Which one out of Despres, Dumoulin, Maatta, and Harrington gets the spot? Which three will spend the next 2-3 years in juniors unless someone gets hurt? Because THAT is what you are saying MUST HAPPEN when you give Orpik another deal. Or, do you trade Paul Martin this summer? Either you never play a kid or one of Martin or Orpik goes. No other choices.

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10-06-2013, 08:45 PM
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You signed Scuderi, well take Orpik as his replacement. Kings went after Orpik whn he was a free agent the last time. Maybe they're still interested?

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10-06-2013, 08:56 PM
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You signed Scuderi, well take Orpik as his replacement. Kings went after Orpik whn he was a free agent the last time. Maybe they're still interested?
That would be ironic.

In all seriousness, either the Pens let Orpik walk or move Martin OR ice all but one of their top defensive prospects until 2016.

IMO, in the unlikely event that they would move Orpik, it wouldn't be for a prospect type of deal. IMO, if they moved Orpik, it would be for the same reason the Kings moved Jack Johnson, and the Pens would be seeking someone to make an impact in their top six.

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10-06-2013, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Of course, Orpik will retire as a Penguin. Martin won't go anywhere. Scuds and Letang are here. Bortuzzo has earned a spot. So, that leaves on starting position between no and say 2015 or 2016. Which one out of Despres, Dumoulin, Maatta, and Harrington gets the spot? Which three will spend the next 2-3 years in juniors unless someone gets hurt? Because THAT is what you are saying MUST HAPPEN when you give Orpik another deal. Or, do you trade Paul Martin this summer? Either you never play a kid or one of Martin or Orpik goes. No other choices.
Martin could be dealt his remaining year if he is made expendable or could walk as a UFA. Obviously there won't be room for all of the guys in our log jam regardless, but if Martin walks and Nisky is dealt we could see something like this down the road.

Scuderi - Letang
Orpik - Despres/Pouliot
Harrington - Maatta
Dumoulin/Bortuzzo

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10-06-2013, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDangles View Post
Martin could be dealt his remaining year if he is made expendable or could walk as a UFA. Obviously there won't be room for all of the guys in our log jam regardless, but if Martin walks and Nisky is dealt we could see something like this down the road.

Scuderi - Letang
Orpik - Despres/Pouliot
Harrington - Maatta
Dumoulin/Bortuzzo
That's the only way it works. Of course, it means demoting Bortuzzo from a starting spot and never starting Dumoulin, but it works otherwise.

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10-06-2013, 09:10 PM
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That's the only way it works. Of course, it means demoting Bortuzzo from a starting spot and never starting Dumoulin, but it works otherwise.
This just means we have nice pieces for trade bait once Kunitz and Duper start slowing down.

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10-06-2013, 11:06 PM
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I don't really want to see Orpik traded. not only because i'm biased and he's pretty much my favorite Penguin ever, but because i feel that he's way more valuable in the short run than a prospect/pick that won't help until years later or some middling winger. Plus if you trade him at the deadline, someone like Despres or Dumoulin will have to step it up big and quick.

if he has to go, and i don't really want to see it happen, i hope he goes early so people have time to step into their new roles.

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10-06-2013, 11:09 PM
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Considering what rentals typically pull, the Pens would be better off just keeping him for the playoff run. This doesn't seem like a good year to go fishing for a late first.

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10-06-2013, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Considering what rentals typically pull, the Pens would be better off just keeping him for the playoff run. This doesn't seem like a good year to go fishing for a late first.
If the Penguins were going to trade Orpik-- again, highly unlikely-- then it would have to be earlier rather than later for this reason:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyPierroZabotel17 View Post
Plus if you trade him at the deadline, someone like Despres or Dumoulin will have to step it up big and quick.

if he has to go, and i don't really want to see it happen, i hope he goes early so people have time to step into their new roles.
I think the LA analogy applies. Moved their heaviest hitter for impact in their top six and trusted their young defenseman waiting for an open spot to fill the void (along with everyone else splitting some of the extra minutes).

Question is-- and nobody really has answered it-- is what Orpik is worth in say the next month? Leave aside the high improbability that it happens. Pens don't need any defense. Figuring they want someone younger up front for the top 6/9 to make an impact. Any takers?

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10-07-2013, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
If the Penguins were going to trade Orpik-- again, highly unlikely-- then it would have to be earlier rather than later for this reason:



I think the LA analogy applies.
Moved their heaviest hitter for impact in their top six and trusted their young defenseman waiting for an open spot to fill the void (along with everyone else splitting some of the extra minutes).

Question is-- and nobody really has answered it-- is what Orpik is worth in say the next month? Leave aside the high improbability that it happens. Pens don't need any defense. Figuring they want someone younger up front for the top 6/9 to make an impact. Any takers?
Jack Johnson wasn't a rental. Orpik is a rental, right now, not just at the deadline.

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10-07-2013, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Considering what rentals typically pull, the Pens would be better off just keeping him for the playoff run. This doesn't seem like a good year to go fishing for a late first.
The Pens are going to have to move someone, most likely at the trade deadline, to become cap compliant when Vokoun returns.

That might be the only reason to take this seriously.

Most of us think that the player will be Niskanen, but why not Orpik?

We do have very fine defensive prospects who are NHL ready now, Despres comes to mind.

But if the Pens did not have to become cap compliant when Vokoun returned, then we would not be having a conversation about who they can move at some point.

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10-07-2013, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Jack Johnson wasn't a rental. Orpik is a rental, right now, not just at the deadline.
Clearly, you missed the point. I wasn't saying a guy like Carter for Orpik. I was saying a top six/top nine guy who can make a real impact for Orpik.

The part of the LA analogy that applies is that they dumped their hard hitting minute muncher on the thought that the improvement for their top six and the presence of Slava Voynov in a way made Johnson relatively expendable. In the same way, the presence of Simon Despres makes Orpik relatively expendable IF the return is right, which is why IAmError29 stated this thread, out of curiosity based on THAT premise.

Apparently, Orpik isn't worth a top six/top nine guy who can make an impact according to you. Ergo, there no circumstance under which he'd be traded, because IMO that would be the only, albeit highly remote, circumstance.

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10-07-2013, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
The Pens are going to have to move someone, most likely at the trade deadline, to become cap compliant when Vokoun returns.

That might be the only reason to take this seriously.

Most of us think that the player will be Niskanen, but why not Orpik?

We do have very fine defensive prospects who are NHL ready now, Despres comes to mind.

But if the Pens did not have to become cap compliant when Vokoun returned, then we would not be having a conversation about who they can move at some point.
The Pens COULD make the move when Letang returns if they wanted to do so. Or, Vokoun may not ever return.

Honestly, I think Ray Shero may move one of Orpik, Niskanen, and Despres FOR THE RIGHT DEAL ONLY anytime in the next six months BUT that two of them will be gone by this time next year one way or another.

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10-07-2013, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I don't believe there is even an alternate universe out there in which Orpik gets dealt...it's just not gonna happen.
Which is unfortunate, considering I don't think he'll be here next Oct.

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10-07-2013, 12:27 AM
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Which is unfortunate, considering I don't think he'll be here next Oct.
Which is why IAmError29 started this little thread.

It's funny. I think there's less 'it won't happen' moaning in a VALUE OF MALKIN thread. The way I look at it, it's not 100% inconceivable that Orpik is traded. At the very least, if a call came, I don't think Shero automatically hangs up. So, what's the harm in the exercise. It's far less preposterous than half of the VALUE OF threads here . . .

Anyway, to try again, IMO, the only circumstance under which Shero conceivably MIGHT listen is if the other team were dangling a top six/top nine forward who could make an impact and addresses where the Pens are deficient (size/physicality or playmaking skill, the latter of which surprisingly is in short supply after Crosby, Malkin, and maybe Bennett).

Apparently, nobody thinks Orpik is worth THAT.

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